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Sous vide medium-rare burgers?
I miss having medium-rare burgers because I'm too scared of the really dangerous bacteria around, these days, and how much higher the risk is in ground beef, at least from the store. But it seems like this might be a great use for sous vide: essentially pasteurizing ground beef with several hours at 130°, then a super-fast, brief, hot sear.
Do any of you sous vide guys do this? Does it work? Is the flavor/texture of the burgers any different because of the sous vide than they'd have been if we had safe ground meat to start with and then cooked them medium rare just on the Egg? Got any pictures?
Thanks!
Comments
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I did a few a couple weeks back. The taste was good but I didn't like the texture. Maybe a coarser grind but I'm not really planning to do this again.A poor widows son.
See der Rabbits, Iowa -
rare burger doesnt scare me lettuce scares me. i have not eaten lettuce for a good 20 years now but still pick raw burger out of the package and eat it
fukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it -
Only two things scare me . . . and one is nuclear war. . .Large, Medium, MiniMax, & 22, and 36" Blackstone
Grand Rapids MI -
I eat them rare all the time- but you could either go the SV route or grind your own.
Greensboro, NC -
sv med rare burgers are great and they are "a thing" in the fancy restaurant world. google it an you'll see them everywhere.Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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best to freeze or semi freeze the patties if you use a vac sealer. They will flatten out and taper of at the edges if you don't
Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX -
Many thanks for all of the helpful replies!
A thick burger, seared and even a little charred on the outside, and not raw but very pink, reddish juices dripping down your chin (or in my case, soaking into my beard), oh, man, practically heaven. But it's been years. I know that most of the time you can get away with eating raw burger even from the supermarket and you'll be fine. It's just that the danger isn't a pretty small chance of catching a cold, but a pretty small chance of being desperately, miserably sick, maybe winding up in a hospital exploding from both ends in misery and despair. <shudder> Nope, not going to take that risk if I can help it! And I'm elderly enough, now, that I'm in a group (as are young children!) who actually can die from food borne illnesses, and I'm not super excited about dying in general, but man, that is NOT a way to die...
I'm probably going to break down and try sous vide, one of these days, and it just occurred to me that this might be a good reason. I'm concerned about @bettysnephew's comment, though, that the texture wasn't good, but I just took @Cen-Tex Smoker's suggestion and Googled it, and indeed found lots of hits about it, so I'm going to read some.
Thank again to all! -
Theophan said:exploding from both ends in misery and despair.
fukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it -
fishlessman said:Theophan said:exploding from both ends in misery and despair.
and many more people just get sick because of uncooked vegetables that are not washed properly. I have read that more people get sick from vegetables and fruit than meat.
A major one is fresh salsa served at Mexican restaurants and lemon wedges for water and Tea that commonly test positive.Thank you,DarianGalveston Texas -
Photo Egg said:fishlessman said:Theophan said:exploding from both ends in misery and despair.
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@Theophan
After further thought, I did vacuum seal the burgers. Perhaps if they were done in the ziplock baggie technique the texture would be better as the meat would not be as compressed. I may try this one more time to be sure because I also liked the flavor and being able to have a medium rare burger was a delight.A poor widows son.
See der Rabbits, Iowa -
Photo Egg said:fishlessman said:Theophan said:exploding from both ends in misery and despair.
and many more people just get sick because of uncooked vegetables that are not washed properly. I have read that more people get sick from vegetables and fruit than meat.
A major one is fresh salsa served at Mexican restaurants and lemon wedges for water and Tea that commonly test positive.
fukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it -
I usually try to do burgers loosely packed with the freshest meat possible, generally with butcher counter meat. Not the already portioned ones and absolutely never the trash that comes in the tubes.
The pull from the vacuum sealer definitely would compress it some, I'm interested in how they come out in a normal pressure bag.
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/06/sous-vide-burgers-recipe.html
Albuquerque, NM - LBGE and an old rusted gasser that I use for accessory storage. -
The times in that article are for fresh ground (home ground I guess), I'm not sure it would be safe to do <130F for store ground.
Albuquerque, NM - LBGE and an old rusted gasser that I use for accessory storage. -
bettysnephew said:@Theophan
After further thought, I did vacuum seal the burgers. Perhaps if they were done in the ziplock baggie technique the texture would be better as the meat would not be as compressed. I may try this one more time to be sure because I also liked the flavor and being able to have a medium rare burger was a delight.
So I think for me, anyway, for medium-rare burgers, it's back to starting with uncontaminated meat. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing, but it sounds to me as though grinding my own would dramatically lower the risk.fishlessman said:... it was the lettuce, ... nothing worse than sitting on the throne holding a bucket i cant even eat one slice on a burger -
130º to 135º is commonly defined as medium rare.Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
In his book "The Food Lab", J. Kenzi Lopez-Alt recommends 123° for rare, 133° for med rare and 143° for medium in his recipe for sous-vide burgers. Cook times are listed from 1/2 hour to up to 3 hours. I would feel very safe at 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Earlier in the book he goes into much detail regarding time/temperature profiles to render food safe to consume. Of course there are never any absolute guarantees regarding safety but I am also in the age group that have possible issues and have had no problems when using his recipes on chicken which is a much more likely potential risk food. Sous-vide cooking is much different than other forms of cooking to provide proper pasteurization of the food.A poor widows son.
See der Rabbits, Iowa -
Gosh, that's interesting. I'm encouraged to hear that 130° might get medium-rare after all. Where I got the other idea was on the Serious Eats Food Lab page, where it said,
At 130°F, a burger comes out in the medium range. The texture is fully firm to the center, with no mushy meat, and still plenty juicy. Medium burgers do have a tendency to dry out as you get to the last few bites, as moisture is pressed from them during eating.
The photo of the 130° burger didn't look super appetizing to me.
I don't know. I'm sure I'll try sous vide one of these days. It's sure interesting reading about it.
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Theophan said:Gosh, that's interesting. I'm encouraged to hear that 130° might get medium-rare after all. Where I got the other idea was on the Serious Eats Food Lab page, where it said,
At 130°F, a burger comes out in the medium range. The texture is fully firm to the center, with no mushy meat, and still plenty juicy. Medium burgers do have a tendency to dry out as you get to the last few bites, as moisture is pressed from them during eating.
The photo of the 130° burger didn't look super appetizing to me.
I don't know. I'm sure I'll try sous vide one of these days. It's sure interesting reading about it.
I saw that too and that burger looks to me like it was higher than 130 and a 45 second per side sear. I have only done burgers once and I went with 130 and a quick sear in cast iron, and my burger had much more red than that.
One thought is you could always let the meat rest a bit after the bath. Sous vide at 130 or so for a couple of hours to pasteurize, remove the meat and pat it dry, give it a few minutes and the meat will have cooled to 120 or so. Give it a quick 45 sec -1 minute direct grill per side. I would guess the final IT won't be much over 130.
Which came first the chicken or the egg? I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. -
The Serious Eats folks are assuming a 10º internal temperature increase during the searing process. So a burger coming out of the bath at 130º is assumed to end up at 140º, which is indeed a medium.Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
jtcBoynton said:The Serious Eats folks are assuming a 10º internal temperature increase during the searing process. So a burger coming out of the bath at 130º is assumed to end up at 140º, which is indeed a medium.Which came first the chicken or the egg? I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg.
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I agree. I think you should be able to get a nice sear on the outside without that much of an internal temp increase.
Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
I dunno about thèse sous vide burgers. I do love the idea of sous vide, but the Egg cooks a perfect burger by searing on one side, flipping, and searing on the other side. I mean, it's done. Unless you want a 3 inch burger, why complicate it? Just throwing out another perspective. Happy cookin!
Chris -
@Nature Boy This discussion was started by the OP due to wanting to be able to get a medium rare burger without the risk of foodborne illness. Sous vide will get you that.Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
I just looked over the Serious Eats site. It is by the same fellow I have the book from but goes into even more detail. It appears to be an update on the sous-vide process for burgers. I noticed for med rare he suggested cooking at a lower temp than the book states. Again it is the combination of temperature + extended cook time that makes the food safe to eat.A poor widows son.
See der Rabbits, Iowa -
Nature Boy said:I dunno about thèse sous vide burgers. I do love the idea of sous vide, but the Egg cooks a perfect burger by searing on one side, flipping, and searing on the other side. I mean, it's done. Unless you want a 3 inch burger, why complicate it? Just throwing out another perspective. Happy cookin!
ChrisSandy Springs & Dawsonville Ga -
Nature Boy said:I dunno about thèse sous vide burgers. ... the Egg cooks a perfect burger by searing on one side, flipping, and searing on the other side. I mean, it's done. Unless you want a 3 inch burger, why complicate it?bgebrent said:I'm with you brother. Overthinking going on.
I was asking about sous vide because it might be able to pasteurize the ground beef so it's safe to eat even though very pink. -
Theophan said:Nature Boy said:I dunno about thèse sous vide burgers. ... the Egg cooks a perfect burger by searing on one side, flipping, and searing on the other side. I mean, it's done. Unless you want a 3 inch burger, why complicate it?bgebrent said:I'm with you brother. Overthinking going on.
I was asking about sous vide because it might be able to pasteurize the ground beef so it's safe to eat even though very pink.Sandy Springs & Dawsonville Ga -
bgebrent said:Appreciate that @Theophan, I did read the whole thread and understand your question. I believe our point is MR burgers are not as unsafe as you believe. Carpaccio is still served in restaurants. I grew up eating raw ground beef with S & P. Don't do that now but I do trust modern processing and my immune system to take care of business. I like your question, but still think it's an overthink. Always enjoy your thoughtful posts brother.
I admit that I lean pretty hard toward the paranoid side of things, but that's partly out of having studied up on a lot of this stuff, and facts suggest that your faith in modern processing is unfounded. What you're really putting your faith in, it seems to me, is in being lucky. There are 96,000 illnesses, 3,200 hospitalizations and 32 deaths EVERY YEAR just from one specific bacterium (E. coli O157:H7 -- see below) most commonly associated with ground beef. Given that there are more than 300 million people in the US, those a relatively small numbers, so your chances are pretty good and trusting in luck, statistically speaking, will work out most of the time. But the fact is that really bad things DO happen to real human beings in the US every year from eating undercooked ground beef. Check this out (from this page):E. coli
E. coli O157:H7, the pathogen most commonly associated with ground beef, causes an estimated 96,000 illnesses, 3,200 hospitalizations and 31 deaths in the U.S. each year, adding up to $405 million in annual healthcare expenses.
CDC tracked 391 E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks in the 10 years between 2003 and 2012. Between those outbreaks, the agency confirmed 4,930 cases of illness, with 1,274 (26 percent) hospitalizations, 300 (6 percent) cases of hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS), and 34 deaths.
... Breaking those beef sources down even further reveals that ground beef causes 69 percent of related outbreaks, while steak is linked to 14 percent and “other” beef to 17 percent.
... Beef was also found to be much more likely to sicken people who cooked it at home compared to eating out. According to the data, private home cooking accounted for 33 percent of all E. coli O157:H7 outbreaks, but it accounted for 56 percent of all beef-related E. coli outbreaks.
Yeah, I'm not eating undercooked ground beef.
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looking at those numbers and figuring we eat 50 billion burgers per year the odds of dying from a burger is similar to winning powerball
fukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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