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Educate me, please.
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jeffwit
Posts: 1,348
I'll ask the question first and then give reasoning after, so those of you who don't like to read long posts can skip the latter part.
What makes a brisket a "difficult" cook? I know there are some out there who can cook the best brisket with your eyes shut and one hand tied behind your back, but I apparently need a little more education. So is it the prep work? Picking the correct one before you cook it? Small window of temps between not done and over done? What???
Now on to background. I have cooked three briskets. I'm kind of one for three. Kind of because one was semi-edible and the other two were leather. The first two I cooked were from a company that delivers our meat-organic, grass fed beef. They were flats and did not have much marbling, so I was expecting them to be dry. I was right on one, and the other one was ok. Fast forward to yesterday. I picked up another flat from Costco (they don't carry packers here) that looked really good in the cryovac. Plenty of marbling, looked pretty. Salt and pepper for seasoning, on the BGE at 235* until "buttah". At least that was the plan.... Started probing at 185* and every 20-30 minutes after until temp reached 205*. Never got the "buttah", and brisket was tough and dry. Not a complete fail, because it's going in some brisket chili for Halloween night, but still not what I wanted.
What's my issue(s)? Are packers more guaranteed success? Did I miss the magical moment that was "buttah" one minute and leather the next? Did I pull it off too early? I feel like I need a good brisket cook to feel truly accomplished in life. (Not really, but my wife is tired of me blowing money on meat that doesn't taste good when I cook it.)
Help a brother out...
Thanks
What makes a brisket a "difficult" cook? I know there are some out there who can cook the best brisket with your eyes shut and one hand tied behind your back, but I apparently need a little more education. So is it the prep work? Picking the correct one before you cook it? Small window of temps between not done and over done? What???
Now on to background. I have cooked three briskets. I'm kind of one for three. Kind of because one was semi-edible and the other two were leather. The first two I cooked were from a company that delivers our meat-organic, grass fed beef. They were flats and did not have much marbling, so I was expecting them to be dry. I was right on one, and the other one was ok. Fast forward to yesterday. I picked up another flat from Costco (they don't carry packers here) that looked really good in the cryovac. Plenty of marbling, looked pretty. Salt and pepper for seasoning, on the BGE at 235* until "buttah". At least that was the plan.... Started probing at 185* and every 20-30 minutes after until temp reached 205*. Never got the "buttah", and brisket was tough and dry. Not a complete fail, because it's going in some brisket chili for Halloween night, but still not what I wanted.
What's my issue(s)? Are packers more guaranteed success? Did I miss the magical moment that was "buttah" one minute and leather the next? Did I pull it off too early? I feel like I need a good brisket cook to feel truly accomplished in life. (Not really, but my wife is tired of me blowing money on meat that doesn't taste good when I cook it.)
Help a brother out...
Thanks
Jefferson, GA
XL BGE, MM, Things to flip meat over and stuff
Wife, 3 kids, 5 dogs, 4 cats, 12 chickens, 2 goats, 2 pigs.
“Honey, we bought a farm.”
XL BGE, MM, Things to flip meat over and stuff
Wife, 3 kids, 5 dogs, 4 cats, 12 chickens, 2 goats, 2 pigs.
“Honey, we bought a farm.”
Comments
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I'm a Boston butt guy, but there's a packer sitting in my fridge for this weekend.
I'm watching.....LBGE #19 from North GA Eggfest, 2014
Stockbridge, GA - just south of Atlanta where we are covered up in Zombies! #TheWalkingDead films practically next door!
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For me, I buy nothing less than Choice and try and stay Prime, Only Packers......Basic rub I have done it at temps from 225 to 325---the only time I was not pleased ( though everyone though it was great) was the 1 and only time I bought a select-- IMHO you want good food you have to buy Good Food"...........I am sure you can "massage" lower quality products and get a great outcome, and inversely you can ruin a quality product as well--Keep it simple, buy better cuts, RESTING is key I say no less than 2 hours, I like 4Visalia, Ca @lkapigian
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Most times with flats they have been trimmed already. Leaving hardly any fat. The layer of fat on a packer is usually hardly compromised. That layer of fat is for protection and moisture (and flavor too, I suppose).
The grass fed are leaner anyways. So you'll likely get a leaner/drier outcome.
Key note of this story is, fat is good, um kay?
When picking a packer, you'll want a nice floppy one if you're going that route and also wet age (which I have yet to do).
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Thomasville, NC
My YouTube Channel - The Hungry Hussey
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I have hosed up many a brisket cook and had some successes. A few things:
Flats are much more of a challenge than a packer as the window of success is quite narrow (more about that later).
And as above-the quality of meat going in has a major impact on the outcome. In part it seems that the higher the quality the wider the finish-line window, as well.
Packers have more natural protective fat. A good layer of protective fat is a heat-shield.
The finish-line is as you describe-when the thickest part of the flat probes like "buttah". This applies to a packer or flat only cook. Temperature is only a guide to when to start looking for the brisket to get loose. And with the flat-you likely won't get it all to probe smooth but when the great majority does, you are there. And this window on a flat is more narrow (in my experience) than with a packer.
And here's some great background material:
what follows are some good links for brisket info: probably more than you will ever need- Aaron Franklin video series-first one is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmTzdMHu5KU Then some good reading: http://amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html; http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/brisket.html and http://bubbatim.com/Bubba_s_Brisket.php
And it does sound like you pulled your last cook too early.
I would cook at around 260-280*F on the calibrated dome-around 1hr/lb and seems to yield more consistent results for me.
That's more than enough for now.
Edit: Welcome aboard and enjoy the journey.
Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period. -
Momentary bragging: I did one over the weekend and left for 3 hours in the middle to play some TopGolf.
My automatic winning stratagy involves a cheap foil pan that fits and a great rub. After that, it's a lot like the 3-2-1 method with ribs but it's altered to 3-3 or 3-4. 3 hours of hickory or similar sturates whatever you're cooking. Then tent or cover to catch most evaporating liquid and continue along at 280ish for 2/3/4 hours depending on the size of the brisket. Once it's covered, you're pretty protected from drying and just make sure that your pan doesn't dry out. The fat cap will be render and collect but don't sweat it because it's keeping your brisket moist.
Do it!Best - Jack -
In all things BBQ, fat is your friend.
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I was hoping for something else...
Green egg, dead animal and alcohol. The "Boro".. TN -
First, practice helps. My first three had about your record and now I get calls for my brisket at BBQ competitions, it's my most consistent category.
The best thing that I learned was to go by the probe test, regardless of how high I might think the temp is. I've had briskets go up to 207 before it got that butter feel. This has proven consistent whether I'm cooking choice or Wagyu, low (250) or fast (290), at home or for competitions.
Selection has also helped. I look for thick flats that are as even across the end as possible and want ones that are flexible. When possible I get Wagyu but have gotten top 3 with choice this year.
Learning on flats is hard, I'd try a few packers if you can get them. Also, are you using foil? That makes the learning curve easier IMO. Foil it when you get the color, not automatically at a certain temperature. Then a nice long rest of 4 hours.
Once you nail it, you'll get the feel for it and then smoking whole briskets naked or even doing flats gets much easier. Keep on trying, you'll get it.
Knoxville, TN
Nibble Me This -
jeffwit said:those of you who don't like to read long posts can skip the latter part.
What makes a brisket a "difficult" cook?
#1. Size
#2. Shape
#3. Irregular thickness (Extremely thick on one end and thin on the other).
#4. Lack of experience cooking brisket.
Now lets dive even deeper and take a even closer look. Here is one that i think gives even experienced cooks problems. Temperature. Most (again i said most, not all) become addicted to the Thermapen or whatever temping device that they use. Most have a temp pattern that they rely on. Example: most will pull chicken breasts in the 155-165 degree arena. Pork loin in the 140-150 arena. You see this pattern repeated day in and day out over and over. When it comes to brisket, temperature can just about be thrown out the window. It will almost never be the same. Due to many, many factors, brisket should be cooked to "feel and tenderness". Not temperature. This gives a lot pf people problems. They are accustom to relying on the faithful Thermapen to tell them when something is done. Myself, along with others, have seen some very high end Wagyu be done to perfection in the low to mid 180"s. At the other end of the spectrum, i have seen some poor quality select have to go into the 208 arena before turning loose and setting in. It is because of this, that temp just cant be relied on when it comes to producing high quality, consistent brisket. With most things, you can use temp as a indicator for the most part. Examples again: steaks, chops, loin, chicken, etc, etc. But not brisket. There is just no way around it. So to the above list we can add:
#5. Cooking until done and knowing when done by feel. Not internal temp.
Moving even farther ahead, we have the brisket structure its self to contend with. When cooking chicken breasts, you are for the most part cooking chicken breasts. Seems simple enough in its own right, and for the most part it is. But with brisket, this is not quite the case. The chest muscles are extremely dense, fibrous and tough. They contain very large amounts of connective tissue (white & brown adipose) and hard fat. Far more than just about any cut that most are familiar with cooking. This presents a challenge as all of this must be cooked until broken down. At the same time, it must be done without drying out the lean meat. This, and this alone is what contributes to the very small window of doneness for brisket. Go a little to past and the brisket is dry and crumbly. Dont quite make it there and the brisket is dry and tough. So to the above list we can add:
#6. Composition.
Moving right ahead we come to the last but equally important factor. Seperate parts that are joined. This is a crude analogy, but when you cook tenderloin, you are cooking just that, tenderloin. The same can be said with chops, most steaks or whatever the case may be. With brisket, you are cooking three seperate but cojoined parts. Individual muscles and a connective tissue line. This is also why a whole, unseperated beef clod is a challenge to cook as well. These seperate but joined parts must become done together within a reasonably small window or overcooking/undercooking will be the result for part of the cut. So to the above list we can add:
#7. Structure.
Now for the grand finale. I can sum it up quite clearly in one word. Quality. This is crystal clear and contains no ambiguity. As such, very little explanation is needed here. Simply put, if you start with $hit, chances are, you will end up with $hit more often than not. Plain and simple. Quality meat, more so than any other contributing factor is the cornerstone to the next level of success. Short of the Brisket Gods themselves, few if any, can turn crap into quality. Start with quality meat, keep a clean burning fire for the duration, and pull when done. The basic steps to success. So with that said, we can add:
#8. Meat Quality or lack thereof.
I would like to apoligize for the short answer and not going into more detail. But im at work at the moment (working night shift) and my forum time is limited. With that said, i will gladly go much farther in depth when time allows if you would like. The above is some of the biggest factors that make brisket a difficult cook. However there are also several small ones that i didnt list due to time constraints. But most of them are pretty obvious and need not be mentioned except for thoroughness. In closing, please remember that the above is just one mans findings and opinions. For the record and clarity, Im neither a expert nor a Brisket God. With that said, always take the advice of a expert and more importantly that of a Brisket God in place of mine. I hope that the little i offered above helps my friend. Until next time, keep on cooking and may the Brisket Gods smile down upon you.
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
Thanks, guys. Sheds some light on my brisket issues. I'll definitely try again and give it more time. @SGH, thanks for taking the time to really answer my question. I truly appreciate it. And for what it's worth, I consider you at least a Brisket Demi-god.Jefferson, GA
XL BGE, MM, Things to flip meat over and stuff
Wife, 3 kids, 5 dogs, 4 cats, 12 chickens, 2 goats, 2 pigs.
“Honey, we bought a farm.” -
jeffwit said:And for what it's worth, I consider you at least a Brisket Demi-god.
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
Great post and responses, Thanks guys for the info. Love getting any info on the brisketLarge, small, and a mini
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Legume said:
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
smokesniffer said:Great post and responses, Thanks guys for the info. Love getting any info on the brisket
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
Happy Friday Brisket Fans!!!
I just got clearance from the tower that I'm a GO for a packer for Sunday supper. TGI FREAKIN F!! Amirite?!?!?!?!
As for me, I watched the Franklin videos about a zillion times before my first attempt and it came out great. So far [KNOCK WOOD], I've never had a clunker.
And, I've never used butcher paper before, so I'm going to get some for this weekend's cook. BC I'm working on short notice, I can't order the best and highly prized stuff, but I *think* I can pick some up at Staples. Any ideers or suggestions welcome!
Whoooo hoooooo!!!!! Brisky this Sunday!!!It's a 302 thing . . . -
@HendersonTRKing - better to be lucky than good any day. Enjoy the cook and eats. Lots of good info above-but each cook is its own journey. Have fun.Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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