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Sous Vide Skepticism...
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Big_Green_Craig said:cazzy said:Thatgrimguy said:Big_Green_Craig said:Thatgrimguy said:Sous vide OWNS pork chops and chicken breast. It's the king of leftovers as well. I'm not a fan of beef out of the SV though. I get results that I prefer from a reverse sear.
Tri tip is just a big steak, so I couldn't see going 18 hours either...but it looks good so who knows. More than one way to get er done.Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ.... -
saluki2007 said:Great looking cooks Craig. I too have been skeptical of sous vide, but for a different reason. Something about cooking in a plastic bag rubs me the wrong way.
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Big_Green_Craig said:cazzy said:Thatgrimguy said:Big_Green_Craig said:Thatgrimguy said:Sous vide OWNS pork chops and chicken breast. It's the king of leftovers as well. I'm not a fan of beef out of the SV though. I get results that I prefer from a reverse sear.
Tri tip is just a big steak, so I couldn't see going 18 hours either...but it looks good so who knows. More than one way to get er done.
One thing I can guarantee, longer is not always better. I have ruined more food by leaving in too long than visa-versa. Chicken for instance is terribly stringy if you leave it in too long even at 140. I have made pulled pork from a pork loin at 140 by leaving it in for 48 hours.
For me, when i have left any beef in for more than about 12 hours it has taken on a pot roast texture. Not a steak texture. Granted I HATED the 72 hour short ribs that everyone raves about. I'm no pro-chef but I have done probably 100+ sous vide items now.XL, Small, Mini & Mini Max Green Egg, Shirley Fab Trailer, 6 gal and 2.5 gal Cajun Fryers, BlueStar 60" Range, 48" Lonestar Grillz Santa Maria, Alto Shaam 1200s, Gozney Dome, Gateway 55g Drum -
I disagree with longer is better as a general paradigm. I have 4 sous vide cookers and I've been experimenting for a couple of years. Steaks and chops (that are normally cooked rare to medium and are tender enough without the long collagen and connective tissue breakdown) only need be in the bath long enough to reach the endpoint temperature - and that's a function of thickness.
Tough cuts, like ribs, brisket, butt, etc benefit from the long cooking times (longer with lower temp) because they're too tough to eat unless the connective tissue is broken down.
I've done steaks for 12 hours and they're weird tasting to me. Also they can get mushy, like a tenderized steak from a greasy spoon diner.
You'll find most of the sous vide community follows this general paradigm, however there are some outliers.
But whatever works for you, works for you.
______________________________________________I love lamp.. -
nolaegghead said:I disagree with longer is better as a general paradigm. I have 4 sous vide cookers and I've been experimenting for a couple of years. Steaks and chops (that are normally cooked rare to medium and are tender enough without the long collagen and connective tissue breakdown) only need be in the bath long enough to reach the endpoint temperature - and that's a function of thickness.
Tough cuts, like ribs, brisket, butt, etc benefit from the long cooking times (longer with lower temp) because they're too tough to eat unless the connective tissue is broken down.
I've done steaks for 12 hours and they're weird tasting to me. Also they can get mushy, like a tenderized steak from a greasy spoon diner.
You'll find most of the sous vide community follows this general paradigm, however there are some outliers.
But whatever works for you, works for you.
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72 hours! Man - I wonder how top restaurants do it. Do they have people put their orders in four days in advance?"I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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JohnInCarolina said:72 hours! Man - I wonder how top restaurants do it. Do they have people put their orders in four days in advance?
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I've seen a few recipes for 72-hour SV short ribs, they're supposed to fall apart. When I did short ribs on the 4th, I just hot tubbed them for a little while to get some SV benefit, but not take it all the way. I really didn't want to miss out on smoking them, so I split the difference. I put them on the egg at the same time as a rack of St. Louis and they were done first, but with that fat content, I was able to just leave them on there and they continued to get better and better without drying out.
This to me is the benefit, I can't see going the whole way SV to just do a super quick sear at the end. They were like tiny little individual briskets on top of a bone, with all of the fantastic flavor of the smoke and fire.
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I have been enjoying the sous vide for awhile. We have used it the past several days.
Chicken breasts, beef tongue (30 hours), chicken wings (finished with a quick fry), and hanger steak tonight.
Lots of fun.
Smaksmak
Leesburg, VA -
On the up side, if you thought those were delicious, you can up your game byLegume said:I've seen a few recipes for 72-hour SV short ribs, they're supposed to fall apart. When I did short ribs on the 4th, I just hot tubbed them for a little while to get some SV benefit, but not take it all the way. I really didn't want to miss out on smoking them, so I split the difference. I put them on the egg at the same time as a rack of St. Louis and they were done first, but with that fat content, I was able to just leave them on there and they continued to get better and better without drying out.
This to me is the benefit, I can't see going the whole way SV to just do a super quick sear at the end. They were like tiny little individual briskets on top of a bone, with all of the fantastic flavor of the smoke and fire.
Generally, if I'm just searing and I'm SV-ing some tough meat, I'll check it now and then by pulling it out of the water and squeezing the meat through the bag. You can tell how tender it is by how it reacts to the squeeze. If it bounces back into shape, it could stay in longer.
______________________________________________I love lamp.. -
JohnInCarolina said:72 hours! Man - I wonder how top restaurants do it. Do they have people put their orders in four days in advance?
I've tried doing this myself, and its not as good as going straight to sear. I think its 'cause I don't have a quick way to freeze the pre-cooked foods.
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@gdenby - If the food is pasteurized in the sous vide, the shelf life in a refrigerator is greatly extended (weeks). So there should be no need to freeze, which degrades the flavor and texture of many foods.
______________________________________________I love lamp.. -
Legume said:I've seen a few recipes for 72-hour SV short ribs, they're supposed to fall apart. ...
I can't see going the whole way SV to just do a super quick sear at the end.
They don't fall apart. All of the tough stuff seems to disappear. The meat kind of jugglesunder finger touches. The tissue kind of "pops" in the mouth. The sear adds more flavor, but even w/o, the meat is amazingly succulent. Nothing like anything I've ever had from other methods.
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Thatgrimguy said:Sous vide OWNS pork chops and chicken breast. It's the king of leftovers as well. I'm not a fan of beef out of the SV though. I get results that I prefer from a reverse sear.Ajax, ON Canada(XL BGE, MED BGE, La Caja China #2, and the wife's Napoleon gasser)
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+1 for sous vide pork and chicken breasts.
Here is a link to some great information about sous vide - http://forums.egullet.org/index.php/topic/136274-sous-vide-index/
I think salmon cooked sous vide to 122˚is also really goodLBGE | DigiQ | SW Cap | KAB | iGrill2 | CI PS | PSWoo2 | HQ Grid | Extender
Mini Max | PartyQ | KAB | CGW 2-Tier (Mod) | Woo w/Stone | SW Cap (mod) | CI13
Location: NoVA -
I missed the father's day deal on the Anova. Waiting for the price to come down again. I will definitely use it for reheating leftover bbq. I have way too many cooking accessories that don't get used anymore. Im more interesting in acquiring a stick burner that anything else at the moment.XL BGEJoe JRBaltimore, MD
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cazzy said:72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.
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Big_Green_Craig said:cazzy said:72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
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cazzy said:Big_Green_Craig said:cazzy said:72 hours? Wow...you only blew past that by 70 hours. You don't need to break down intermuscular fat in fine cuts. The tri tip and lamb chops should already be tender.
https://youtu.be/U5MjN-3K6es
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Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.
Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.BrandonQuad Cities
"If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful." -
Focker said:Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.
Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.
Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.
And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, "spa-Peggy" is kind of like spaghetti. I'm not sure what Peggy does different, if anything. But it's the one dish she's kind of made her own.____________________Aurora, Ontario, Canada -
TexanOfTheNorth said:Focker said:Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.
Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.
Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.
And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours? -
Big_Green_Craig said:TexanOfTheNorth said:Focker said:Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.
Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.
Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.
And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?
But, aren't you curious to know if you'd get the same results with a much shorter sous vide? I've only got the one Anova unit and would hate to think I needed to tie it up for 3 days to get excellent results.
Why not try doing them for 4 hours and see how they turn out.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, "spa-Peggy" is kind of like spaghetti. I'm not sure what Peggy does different, if anything. But it's the one dish she's kind of made her own.____________________Aurora, Ontario, Canada -
TexanOfTheNorth said:Big_Green_Craig said:TexanOfTheNorth said:Focker said:Craig, it's hard for a few of the haters around here to swallow the fact that you are one of, if not the best, cooks on the forum.
Shake 'em off, keep doin' your thang cuz. Post pics, ingredients, technique, etc. are always top notch. Everything looks perfect on my screen.
Lamb chops do not need 72 hours in sous vide to be fork tender! Is it wrong? No. Is it necessary... absolutely not.
And, I would not agree with @BigGreenCraig's comment that the longer the better in so far as it does not apply to all sous vide applications. Frankly, it doesn't even apply to lamb chops and tri tip; otherwise, why not do them 96 or 120 hours?
But, aren't you curious to know if you'd get the same results with a much shorter sous vide? I've only got the one Anova unit and would hate to think I needed to tie it up for 3 days to get excellent results.
Why not try doing them for 4 hours and see how they turn out. -
Very informative site and article.
http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/sous-vide-time-and-temperature-guide
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community [...] but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots."
-Umberto Eco
2 Large
Peachtree Corners, GA -
They/Them
Morgantown, PA
XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer - PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker -
DMW said:Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
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cazzy said:DMW said:
Education
- Ph.D., Applied Mathematics, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, August 2005 to May 2013. Dissertation title: Dispersive shock wave interactions and two-dimensional ocean-wave soliton interactions.
- M.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 2003 to May 2004. Thesis title: Symbolic algorithms and software for the Painlevé test and recursion operators for nonlinear partial differential equations.
- B.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 1999 to May 2003. Graduated with high scholastic honors and a minor in Economics and Business. GPA: 3.855. GRE general test (2005) scores: math 780 (86% below), verbal 600 (84% below), and writing 5.5 (86% below).
Awards and Honors
- Best Student Paper Award from the Eighth IMACS International Conference on Nonlinear Evolution Equations and Wave Phenomena: Computation and Theory, March 26, 2013.
- Dean’s Graduate Student Research Grant ($7,150) from the University of Colorado at Boulder, 2013–2014.
- National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship, sponsored and funded by the DoD and selected by the AFRL/AFOSR, 2006–2009.
Professional Activities and Service
Referee Work for Journals
- Computer Physics Communications (EF 91%)
- International Journal of Nonlinear Sciences and Numerical Simulations (EF 74%)
- Food Control (EF 85%)
- Journal of Computational and Applied Mathematics (EF 93%)
- Journal of Fluid Mechanics (EF 97%)
- Journal of Food Science (EF 90%)
- LWT – Food Science and Technology (EF 85%)
- Meat Science (EF 88%)
- Physica A (EF 95%)
- Physics Letters A (EF 98%)
- Physical Review E (EF 100%)
- Physical Review Letters (EF 100%)
Here, EF is the Eigenfactor.org percentile. I rarely review papers for journals with a EF below 70%.
Professional Organizations
- Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
- American Mathematical Society
- The Authors Guild
Boards of Directors
- Vice President, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2012 to present.
- Director, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2007 to present.
They/Them
Morgantown, PA
XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer - PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker -
Math and Science are the Devil's work.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community [...] but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots."
-Umberto Eco
2 Large
Peachtree Corners, GA -
DMW said:cazzy said:DMW said:
Education
- Ph.D., Applied Mathematics, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, August 2005 to May 2013. Dissertation title: Dispersive shock wave interactions and two-dimensional ocean-wave soliton interactions.
- M.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 2003 to May 2004. Thesis title: Symbolic algorithms and software for the Painlevé test and recursion operators for nonlinear partial differential equations.
- B.S., Mathematical and Computer Sciences, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, Colorado, August 1999 to May 2003. Graduated with high scholastic honors and a minor in Economics and Business. GPA: 3.855. GRE general test (2005) scores: math 780 (86% below), verbal 600 (84% below), and writing 5.5 (86% below).
Awards and Honors
- Best Student Paper Award from the Eighth IMACS International Conference on Nonlinear Evolution Equations and Wave Phenomena: Computation and Theory, March 26, 2013.
- Dean’s Graduate Student Research Grant ($7,150) from the University of Colorado at Boulder, 2013–2014.
- National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate (NDSEG) Fellowship, sponsored and funded by the DoD and selected by the AFRL/AFOSR, 2006–2009.
Professional Activities and Service
Referee Work for Journals
- Computer Physics Communications (EF 91%)
- International Journal of Nonlinear Sciences and Numerical Simulations (EF 74%)
- Food Control (EF 85%)
- Journal of Computational and Applied Mathematics (EF 93%)
- Journal of Fluid Mechanics (EF 97%)
- Journal of Food Science (EF 90%)
- LWT – Food Science and Technology (EF 85%)
- Meat Science (EF 88%)
- Physica A (EF 95%)
- Physics Letters A (EF 98%)
- Physical Review E (EF 100%)
- Physical Review Letters (EF 100%)
Here, EF is the Eigenfactor.org percentile. I rarely review papers for journals with a EF below 70%.
Professional Organizations
- Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
- American Mathematical Society
- The Authors Guild
Boards of Directors
- Vice President, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2012 to present.
- Director, Los Lagos Ranch, Inc., July 2007 to present.
Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
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