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Rockwood NOT available in California….
Not even if you wish to purchase an entire pallet.
You are guilty until proven innocent, in this case.
Comments
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Sorry. One bag, one pallet, one truckload.....the law is the law. We're not in compliance because of the wording on our packaging. Much easier to ship to the 49 other states that don't require us to keep an environmental attorney on retainer.
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Just get it across the border and smuggle it in. I doubt anyone actually enforces the law.1 large BGE, Spartanburg SC
My dog thinks I'm a grilling god. -
Actually, if I understand correctly, the self-imposed ban by Rockwood is a preemtive measure so no possible liabity exists under prop 65.
I am very cynical of California's foreign policy efforts.
I tend to agree about the attorney situation. If I were dating today, I'd have prospective partners sign a release and various medical disclosure forms. -
@stlcharcoal I completely understand your position, it's definitely not worth what an environmental attorney costs or worse losing your business from possible litigation. It's just a crying shame that politics are getting in the way of both you doing business in CA and for CA Eggheads that obviously want your product from being able to get it.
I was going to suggest trying Firecaft.com to the OP but I see that's not even an option either. I understand if you can't answer this, don't want to or won't but just curious is that due to your agreement with Firecraft, how the shipment of product works with Firecraft (assuming your company ships the product bought from Firecraft directly and they make their money from a fee structure of some sort for providing the sale) or that Firecraft has made a similar decision to you and just choosing not to get involved in CA? I don't see why Rockwood would be responsible for a third party shipping your product to CA as long as they have bought it and taken ownership of it prior to shipping. I'm just looking at this from the prospective that after you make the original sale to them and ship them the product you wouldn't necessarily know what they do with it. I'm sure somehow the way the law is written it all comes back to the manufacturer somehow...
Large and Mini BGE
Hamilton, VA -
Does this not apply to Rockwood?
"Businesses with less than 10 employees and government agencies are exempt from Proposition 65’s warning requirements..."
http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/background/p65plain.html
I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!
MichaelCentral Connecticut -
I'm glad to see a real discussion of this issue.
I totally understand the Rockwood position.
The cost of a staff attorney VS the possible sales in California certainly doesn't seem to make sense.
I'd also need to know how close to capacity the Rockwood production facility already is. If they are pretty much at near-100%, than Why bother with California?
Our Loss:
Now, my search continues for something better than what I'm now using at a reasonable price. -
Just using this forum as a judge Rockwood certainly doesn't seem to be hurting for sales outside of California. However, business is business and CA would provide an opportunity for a massive amount of sales, plus there's a lot of BGE users in CA as these types of posts come up often. I'm sure @stlcharcoal would love to be doing business in CA if it wasn't so prohibitive to his business.Begger said:I'm glad to see a real discussion of this issue.
I totally understand the Rockwood position.
The cost of a staff attorney VS the possible sales in California certainly doesn't seem to make sense.
I'd also need to know how close to capacity the Rockwood production facility already is. If they are pretty much at near-100%, than Why bother with California?
Our Loss:
Now, my search continues for something better than what I'm now using at a reasonable price.
I don't live in CA so I don't understand Prop 65 at all but just a quick search says it's intended to protect the citizens from chemicals entering the water that could be harmful and cause cancer... Isn't charcoal used in filters that most of us use to filter our drinking water? I know our Keurig came with a charcoal water filter to be installed. I'm sure the warning label is required due to the burning of it and a chemical it produces that gets airborne but are they not allowing people to sell water filters that use charcoal without the warning label either?Large and Mini BGE
Hamilton, VA -
Buy kamado joe red bag of lump.
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Call your legislator or use the ballot box. Although it may be an uphill battle in your locale. Might get a friend in a more lump-friendly state to bring you some on their next trip to visit. Just keep it on the down low.....
LBGE
Cedar table w/granite top
Ceramic Grillworks two-tier swing rack
Perpetual cooler of ice-cold beer
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If all else fails and you can't find anyone to smuggle in Rockwood to CA, you could always get friendly with the folks in Yellville AK an see if there is any leftover Ozark Oak. Just tell them you know Santa Clause and you should be OK.
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Good. That means more Rockwood for the rest of us!
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Not to bust your huevos, but it's AR. I was watching America's Got Talent the other night and I was amazed that they made the same mistake. Accidents happen for sure, but on a national broadcast!ChillyWillis said:Yellville AK
Sorry, OT...Large BGE in Moore, OK -
It's not that Rockwood is illegal to possess or use in CA, we just cannot ship or sell it there without special wording on the bag. We make our dealers sign an agreement that they will not ship to CA. We cannot really prevent them from doing it, but if they did and got caught, no doubt we would be named on the lawsuit. Sure that agreement, our dealer handbook, emails, etc would be hard evidence to get the lawsuit transferred to the rouge dealer, but it would still cost us several thousand dollars in legal fees to do.
CPSC that tells us EXACTLY what the carbon monoxide label has to be. Shows the label, tells the spacing from the top, from any graphics, which words have to be bold, the strokewidthlength of the lettering, etc. We know EXACTLY how to comply.
Prop 65 just says that a warning label has to be on the bag somewhere conspicuous......because or product emits carbon monoxide when burned,like ANYTHING that is burned. Then we have to say that inhaling that CO has been found in the state of CA to cause cancer, birth defects, etc. No way in hell we are putting the those words on our bags that can go to 49 other states without it.
It's not really the state that is policing products......it's a bunch of "special interest" groups that go around searching for mislabeled products. They will file a class action lawsuit on behalf of the "people of California", then get their cut of the settlement.
No reason to take on the liability when we're at capacity. We took the road of Smith & Wesson and Ruger, and decided not to do business there. It's not to punish the people of California in any way--it's to protect our company from the added cost and liability. Sure, we could comply, but we have to have an attorney on retainer, print special bags, warehouse special pallets, ship only those pallets to CA, etc. All that costs money and I doubt we would make it back with the cost of printing plates, attorney's fees, etc. Freight costs are so high, I doubt we would sell much anyway.
You guys have a beautiful state out there, but I have to steer clear because of your government and punitive laws. I moved out of IL many years ago due to all of the screwed-up laws and Chicago politics running the state. I wish I had the power of Starbucks to refuse to put the Prop 65 label on their product--they're getting sued and are fighting it. Yes, coffee fumes cause cancer and birth defect according to Prop 65.
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I remember when I was in the Navy I had to paint a stairwell. The can of paint said something to the effect of "Known to possibly cause brain cancer in California." I knew I was safe because I was in Virginia.
I can't blame someone for not wanting to expose their business to laws of one state.Large BGE, Mini BGEMorgantown, PA -
Kinda funny that Rockwood just doesn’t print the little warning label on their bags when section XV of the MSDS they publish already addresses CA Prop65.
I’m in Virginia and I buy stuff frequently that has the CA Prop65 warning on it and the presence of that warning label bothers me not at all. No real need to have separate bags just for Cali - just put it on all the bags. However, if the company just doesn’t want to sell to Californians that is certainly their choice.“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
@heavyg the company I work for has to label for CA. Selling the same product with that label in other states is something we definitely think about. No one wants the c word on their packaging
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All this talk about California gave me lump anxiety so I added two more bags to the stash today
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No worries - almost nobody actually reads package labeling anyways.theyolksonyou said:@heavyg the company I work for has to label for CA. Selling the same product with that label in other states is something we definitely think about. No one wants the c word on their packaging
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
I guess I don't understand what you mean by a glitch.Begger said:…..Due to a glitch in State Law
Not even if you wish to purchase an entire pallet.
You are guilty until proven innocent, in this case.
Does CA pass laws unfriendly to businesses? I think all would agree with a resounding YES.
Does Rockwood exercise their freedom to not conduct business in a state that chooses to pass unfriendly laws? Again, the answer is YES.
I wish I could buy Rockwood, but I accept the fact I can't. I fully endorse Rockwood for exercising their right not to sell me lump charcoal because I choose to live in a state that passes laws I hate. I love enough other things about living in CA, such that their effed up politics hasn't driven me out.
but it isn't a glitch in State Law, it's what the effing politicians want.
As Dorothy said, "There's No Place like Home".
Large BGE in a Sole' Gourmet Table
Using the Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter,
and a BBQ Guru temp controller.
Medium BGE in custom modified off-road nest.
Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter, and a Party-Q temp controller.
Location: somewhere West of the Mason-Dixon Line -
It won't be a little warning label. Warning size is based on the size of the packaging, and a 20 pound bag of lump would require a warning label the size of a 5x7 index card or larger placed in a prominent place on the main panel of the bag.
Stupid rule. Waste of space on a label. And the company has to pay taxes based on the amount sold in the state.
Its a shame!LBGE #19 from North GA Eggfest, 2014
Stockbridge, GA - just south of Atlanta where we are covered up in Zombies! #TheWalkingDead films practically next door!
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I applaud Rockwood for their stance. I think EVERY company should refuse to do business in CA. And then the peeps rise up and start putting common sense back into gov't
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After living in CA for 11 years there are some very insane laws on the books. We sold our house two weeks before the mandate to install a catalytic convertor on the chimney. Love the beauty and weather of California but will never live there again (unless it is a choice between New Jersey and California...lived in both... CA would win).Large, small and mini now Egging in Rowlett Tx
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ads75 said:I remember when I was in the Navy I had to paint a stairwell. The can of paint said something to the effect of "Known to possibly cause brain cancer in California." I knew I was safe because I was in Virginia.
Not that is funny
Large, small and mini now Egging in Rowlett Tx -
Prop65 was passed by ballot initiative in 1986. The citizens of California wanted such legislation.Zmokin said:
I guess I don't understand what you mean by a glitch.Begger said:…..Due to a glitch in State Law
Not even if you wish to purchase an entire pallet.
You are guilty until proven innocent, in this case.
Does CA pass laws unfriendly to businesses? I think all would agree with a resounding YES.
Does Rockwood exercise their freedom to not conduct business in a state that chooses to pass unfriendly laws? Again, the answer is YES.
I wish I could buy Rockwood, but I accept the fact I can't. I fully endorse Rockwood for exercising their right not to sell me lump charcoal because I choose to live in a state that passes laws I hate. I love enough other things about living in CA, such that their effed up politics hasn't driven me out.
but it isn't a glitch in State Law, it's what the effing politicians want.
As Dorothy said, "There's No Place like Home".“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
Strange. The warning on the 20lb bags of Kingsford Blue and Kingsford Competition is a few simple lines of text measuring 1"X3" (at least that is what is on the bags I have).DaveRichardson said:It won't be a little warning label. Warning size is based on the size of the packaging, and a 20 pound bag of lump would require a warning label the size of a 5x7 index card or larger placed in a prominent place on the main panel of the bag.
Stupid rule. Waste of space on a label. And the company has to pay taxes based on the amount sold in the state.
Its a shame!“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
I'll have to go and look back at the regulations, but that doesn't seem to be big enough. Maybe they are going by the size of the available print space vs bag size.
LBGE #19 from North GA Eggfest, 2014
Stockbridge, GA - just south of Atlanta where we are covered up in Zombies! #TheWalkingDead films practically next door!
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Silly question, why not change the wording? California is the largest state by population and GDP. Selling your products in California could pay for an entire legal department and make you wealthy.stlcharcoal said:Sorry. One bag, one pallet, one truckload.....the law is the law. We're not in compliance because of the wording on our packaging. Much easier to ship to the 49 other states that don't require us to keep an environmental attorney on retainer.
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I skimmed thru a couple pdf's of the regs and the only specifications for the sizes of warnings was pretty much signage used in restaurants, grocery stores, workplaces, and retailers. Actually, if I am grokking what I briefly skimmed there may be no requirement to actually individually label retail packages as long as the proper signage is provided at the retail point of purchase.DaveRichardson said:I'll have to go and look back at the regulations, but that doesn't seem to be big enough. Maybe they are going by the size of the available print space vs bag size.
I didn't see any regulations requiring a specific size warning label on retail packaging. The only requirements were in the wording and that is be placed somewhere where it might actually be readily seen.
I could have easily missed some important details regarding the requirements for retail package labeling cuz I really don't care about it all that much. “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
Shhhh. It's probably better for those of us that don't live in Cali that they do NOT sell there. If they are already selling all they can produce we don't want to make it more difficult for us to get it now do we?rosco said:
Silly question, why not change the wording? California is the largest state by population and GDP. Selling your products in California could pay for an entire legal department and make you wealthy.stlcharcoal said:Sorry. One bag, one pallet, one truckload.....the law is the law. We're not in compliance because of the wording on our packaging. Much easier to ship to the 49 other states that don't require us to keep an environmental attorney on retainer.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk
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