I Dumped My St. Louis Charcoal Grate for the Original BGE Grate

Judy Mayberry · November 2014

I use my Small a lot, and for a short cooking time, after the Egg has shut down there is virtually no lump left. I've had the Egg about 10 years, so I know that didn't used to be the case. I've had the St. Louis grate for at least a year, maybe longer.

Tonight I put the old grate back in and cooked one steak. You know what? It heated up just as fast the the expanded metal grate did, and there's a heck of a lot of lump left!

I'm curious if the High Que gobbles up the lump too. I use Royal Oak most of the time.

SGH · November 2014

I use the High Q Grate in my large. I do think the HQG uses a tad more lump than the standard grate. The larger openings allow larger size pieces of lump to fall through its opening than the standard grate. However, the lump consumption increase is minor and the added performance the HQG offers over the standard grate more than makes up for this small increase in lump consumption. I know we all have different cooking styles and techniques. But that said, for my style of cooking I feel that the High Q Grate and the Rutland gasket are the two best aftermarket upgrades that one can make over OEM. Just my thoughts my friend.

jhl192 · November 2014

I have the High-Que Grate on my Medium and Large and feel that the value of the airflow problems it solves far outweigh any slight increase in lump consumption.

Jeremiah · November 2014

The kick ash basket might be my favorite toy yet. It doubles as a high que grate (I took the bge out) and all I have to do is lift it out to clean out the ash at the bottom. Plus it keeps the lump from getting stuck in the air holes on the firebox.

DMW · November 2014

Jeremiah said:

The kick ash basket might be my favorite toy yet. It doubles as a high que grate (I took the bge out) and all I have to do is lift it out to clean out the ash at the bottom. Plus it keeps the lump from getting stuck in the air holes on the firebox.

If they do a kick ash basket for the small, I'm ordering one.

Judy, interesting findings. I put a St. Louis Charcoal grate in my small almost as soon as I got it. I may switch back to factory for a bit to see what I think.

Shiff · November 2014

I have a Hi-Q and don't see any extra lump being used except for the extra small pieces that fall through. I solve that problem when I clean out the BGE after every 3 or 4 cooks. I just pick through the ash for a minute and take out the small pieces and put them back in the egg. Very quick and, as o thers have said, the Hi-Q makes the rest of the cooking so much easier.

stlcharcoal · November 2014

Maybe a thermodynamic engineer will chime in here, but I do not see how ANY grate would change the amount of charcoal used if you're metering the airflow.

That grate is merely a restrictor once the O2 is past the draft door. Then you have the chimney cap also restricting airflow. Unless you're running those wide open, you're not going to get any more air into the system and thus, not use any more charcoal.

It's like if I pulled the fuel filter off my truck.......I'm not going to use any more or less fuel. Same goes for this. You don't burn any more/less charcoal if you much the plate setter in either. It all has to do with the intake and exhaust.

If you're running 300F on the dome temp, you're going to burn the exact same amount of charcoal no matter what grate you're running.

We do not produce those grates anymore, but you're more than welcome to return it for a refund if you like.

nolan8v · November 2014

@Jeremiah,

Couple of Kick Ash questions:

Have you experienced any rusting issues with the basket?

Have they started manufacturing the stainless steel version of the Kick Ash Basket?

Thanks in advance.

lousubcap · November 2014

I can't see where the grate design would impact lump consumption upon shutdown. Once you shut-off the air-flow the grate is no longer in the equation. I can see where you could burn more on initial light-off if you get to temp quicker and hold a higher cook temp for a longer duration. But beyond that...FWIW-

bettysnephew · November 2014

The reason I put the improved grates in my Eggs is to [prevent "flame outs" during low and slow overnight cooks. If it does use just a bit more charcoal during the shutdown process, i am willing to accept that loss for the peace of mind during those extended periods. I have not had a single fire go out since replacing the grates.

Jeremiah · November 2014

@nolan8v‌ here you go. It's about 6 months old I guess. It's rusty but structurally fine. I wouldn't worry much about a stainless option.

My apologies for the hijack, Judy.

Little Steven · November 2014

Judy Mayberry said:

I use my Small a lot, and for a short cooking time, after the Egg has shut down there is virtually no lump left. I've had the Egg about 10 years, so I know that didn't used to be the case. I've had the St. Louis grate for at least a year, maybe longer.

Tonight I put the old grate back in and cooked one steak. You know what? It heated up just as fast the the expanded metal grate did, and there's a heck of a lot of lump left!

I'm curious if the High Que gobbles up the lump too. I use Royal Oak most of the time.

If you have a good gaskets and your vents are tight the grate can not make any difference. I went years without gaskets and I lost a lot of lump when I shut down. Can't burn nuthin' without air.

CtTOPGUN · November 2014

Even the larger lump pieces that fall through the larger grate will still release all their BTUs during the cook. Like mentioned above, after shutdown the remaining pieces can be reused.

Jim

Judy Mayberry · November 2014

@stlcjarcoal, @Little Steven,@lousubcap:

All I cook these days on the Small are quick steaks and kababs, and 2-hour ribs. I have a Rutland gasket on the bottom and none on top. I never see smoke come out of the middle.

I cooked one steak last night, full firebowl, and there was at least half a fire bowl of lump left after shutdown, probably more. I know what I see! I can control the vents quite well for a moderately low temperature, and I throw the steak on the coals to sear it. So no screaming flames.

Canugghead · November 2014

Interesting observation Judy. I'm guessing/speculating if you see glowing red lump underneath when using aftermarket lump grate, a lot of BTUs are 'trapped and wasted' if there's such a thing, hence the higher lump consumption? Just my 2 cents which are worthless because our government got rid of the pennies

Judy Mayberry · November 2014

@Canugghead, sounds good to me.

stlcharcoal · November 2014

Canugghead said:

Interesting observation Judy. I'm guessing/speculating if you see glowing red lump underneath when using aftermarket lump grate, a lot of BTUs are 'trapped and wasted' if there's such a thing, hence the higher lump consumption? Just my 2 cents which are worthless because our government got rid of the pennies

BTU's cannot be wasted.....they go somewhere and in this case, Up. First and foremost law in thermodynamics: Law of Conservation of Energy.

If you have any burning lump underneath the fire grate, the heat is going up and heating the charcoal above it. Or it's preheating the air going into the firebox, thus less combustion is needed above the fire grate. In the "fire triangle" you need O2, fuel, and a kindling temperature (sometimes [incorrectly] called "heat".) If the fuel & O2 are readily available or metered, then the "heat" is just there to keep the fire going--anything above the kindling temp is excess. So preheating the air before the fire grate, is just going to result in less lump usage above it, if the O2 is metered by the draft door and daisy wheel. Best example, you use more lump in cold weather than in hot weather (reason: need more to keep the fire at or above kindling temp due to the amount of heat lost through radiation.)

@JudyMayberry No one is doubting what you saw or experienced, but from a physics standpoint, it cannot be from the fire grate under the standards described. We do not produce the grates anymore, so I'm not trying to "save face" here or worried this might hurt sales. You can still send it back for a refund if you like.

Canugghead · November 2014

@stlcharcoal

All valid points taken. However, what about radiant heat? I'm thinking perhaps with red hot glowing lumps underneath due to 'airy' after market lump grate (I'm not talking about crumbs that fell below the fire grate, it's the band of lump immediately above the grate) , a lot of radiant heat is heating the bottom instead of upwards?

IMO, it's not purely law of conservation at play. A good example of radiant heat at play is: all things being equal, how come a direct cook is more fuel efficient and much hotter and faster than an indirect one?

DieselkW · November 2014

Couple of thoughts:

Kudos to @stlcharcoal for offering a refund even when the damn thing does as it's advertised to do.

Opening the bottom vent allows more draft air fed to the fire, through whatever path that air is forced to take. Closing the vents and having a gasket seal effectively puts the fire out, saving lump.

A live fire and a more restricted air path forces air to flow through the path of least resistance, but does not significantly affect the VOLUME of air drawn by the fire - the top and bottom vent affect volume. A partially blocked grate directly beneath the lump simply affects the flow rate per available opening, not the volume of air the fire requires. Draft is created by fire.

Without mechanically forcing air into he bottom vent, the draft volume is determined by the size of the fire drawing air to sustain itself.

Air will "whistle" with more velocity through the open holes, but the volume remains a function of vent opening and fire temperature absent a forced draft impeller.

Or I don't understand the dynamics of fluid flow and heat transfer.

Ragtop99 · November 2014

I noticed no difference in charcoal consumption from simply swapping the grate in my medium.

When I started doing more raised direct cooks at higher temps, I noticed that uses more coal.

Canugghead · November 2014

Have you compared direct vs. indirect at the same dome temp?

stlcharcoal · November 2014

Ragtop99 said:

I noticed no difference in charcoal consumption from simply swapping the grate in my medium.

When I started doing more raised direct cooks at higher temps, I noticed that uses more coal.

Definitely.......You're over doubling the amount of unmetered airflow available to the charcoal. So if you're running doors open, it's going to take as much as it can. At the same time, you're running a MUCH higher temp, so your food is going to cook faster, right?

In the end, all our grate was engineered to do was give the cook more flexibility by offering higher airflow to the firebox *if* the cook chose to use it. At the same time, it allowed the ash to fall through much easier than the stock grate, thus reducing the chance of a flameout due to poor airflow from a clogged cast iron grate.

Being in the charcoal business, I should have engineered it to burn more charcoal, right? But, that's not really possible with an internal piece.

Ragtop99 · November 2014

Canugghead said:

Have you compared direct vs. indirect at the same dome temp?

not really. I've been experimenting with the heavier rack I got for raised direct. So I'm comparing say 350 at normal height with 400 raised for salmon steaks or 450 vs 550 raised for burgers. Some of it could be it takes more heat to get the the heavier grate up to temp. I did do some wings over the weekend raised direct and they cooked faster than my normal method of indirect. Actually burned a couple of them, trying to watch football and go back and forth to the grill.

Gogogordy · November 2014

With the exception of a CI grill, my med is box-stock and I've never had a problem with the factory fuel grate, flame-outs or anything of the sort. Soooo, I haven't felt the need to buy a bunch of aftermarket items to try to improve on the egg. What am I doing wrong? :P

Ragtop99 · November 2014

@Gogogordy I wasn't having any problems with the grate and airflow. I wanted to try the grate and see if worked better. It sits a little higher and has less tendency to slide or flip when giving the coals a quick stir are primary benefits I've observed.

Canugghead · November 2014

@Ragtop99 - thanks for sharing. I don't do burgers often, but I heard a good way to cook them is on hot griddle or steel plate... but it'll be tricky to slather it with mayo (a new trend set by @RRP ) though

fishlessman · November 2014

judy, check the silicone sealant on the lower vent, on my 10 year old eggs its not as airtight as it once was, the silicone falls out. that might make a difference between the two grates

Canugghead · November 2014

@fishlessman - sorry to butt in, but lump consumption for Judy is now back to 'normal' after she switched back to old stock lump grate, you probably missed this?

Tonight I put the old grate back in and cooked one steak. You know what? It heated up just as fast the the expanded metal grate did, and there's a heck of a lot of lump left!

fishlessman · November 2014

Canugghead said:

@fishlessman - sorry to butt in, but lump consumption for Judy is now back to 'normal' after she switched back to old stock lump grate, you probably missed this?

Tonight I put the old grate back in and cooked one steak. You know what? It heated up just as fast the the expanded metal grate did, and there's a heck of a lot of lump left!

thats what my thinking is though, with the origional grate and the ash buildup is probably not as influenced by a leaky lower vent as much as the freeflow of the xpanded metal. that ash buildup with the origional grate may also help snuff the fire out at shutdown but theres no need to give it extra air thru that lower vent, the silicone in my eggs is shot and i know it leaks by

Gogogordy · November 2014

Ragtop99 said:

@Gogogordy I wasn't having any problems with the grate and airflow. I wanted to try the grate and see if worked better. It sits a little higher and has less tendency to slide or flip when giving the coals a quick stir are primary benefits I've observed.

Ragtop.... my comment was not poised as a reply to yours. I was commenting on the fact that many of members seem to find flaw/shortcomings in the original parts/pieces/designs and end up spending a proportionally "small fortune" improving their eggs. I haven't had those problems with mine (or any of my other Kamado's.... which shall remain nameless) and simply use and enjoy them as-is. Either I'm a complete Luddite who knows no better, am exceptionally easy to please, or realize nothing is perfect in design or execution. My wife will attest to the fact that I'm really none of the above so what am I missing? This is really un-characteristic for me!

Ragtop99 · November 2014

Forums like this encourage tinkering and experimenting. A lot of people joining a forum to try something new. Since it is self selection, I don't think people here are representative of all egg owners and that's why there are so many people tweaking their hardware. Yes, I know there is a free joke in there. Pick your favorite non-representative member. :ar!

I Dumped My St. Louis Charcoal Grate for the Original BGE Grate

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