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Rocks BBQ, aka, Stoker Has Closed

245

Comments

  • sumoconnell
    sumoconnell Posts: 1,932
    Have you guys looked at the heater meter? Looks like it’s up your tech hobbyist alley. I built one and it was fun and easy. 
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Austin, Texas.  I'm the guy holding a beer.
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    paqman said:
    I use a Saleae logic analyzer but that’s not cheap so unless you plan to use it for something else...

    Bus pirate is another option but if I remember correctly it is fairly restrictive in terms of supported logic voltage and you will burn it if the voltage is too high.  

    I think my local dealer might have one of them left in stock, if I can get my hands on one of them for cheap $$$ I’ll figure it out.

    I think that what would make sense here is build a « receiver » to connect k-type thermocouples or standard thermistors.  The caveat with thermistors is that you have to calibrate them so thermocouple is probably a better option. Building the receiver is fairly simple but making it talk the same language as the controller will be the challenge.

    Adafruit has a few good options for thermocouple interface modules.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  Just build a pigtail plug that works with off the shelf stuff.

    That Saleae logic analyzer looks like fun!  The Logic 8 doesn't seem to be too out-of-reach, but it would be more than I'd want to spend for a single use.  I wonder if anyone on the forum has one they can ship you now that they've been binned?  It'd be nice to offer some tutorial on making your own parts so the product can live on rather than becoming the next piece of tech trash.

    sumoconnell said:
    Have you guys looked at the heater meter? Looks like it’s up your tech hobbyist alley. I built one and it was fun and easy. 
    That looks very interesting.  Thanks for the lead!!
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    @paqman - my buddy who's system not up and running yet will send you his Stoker II and probes/blower for debugging purposes.  If you wouldn't mind returning it when you're done.  I'll pay for all the costs.

    Scope:  Develop a method the community can use to replace their probes and blowers with off-the-shelf parts.

    Here's my buddy's system that he never quite got working right....  It's for a custom outdoor smoker....   

    Is it still something you'd be interested in helping out with?  I suspect there is an army of Stoker users who, like me, don't really check-in online until something goes wrong.  And it's so easy to throw the bundle of probes in the sink and the wife to run the faucet over the connectors....  or whatever fate they end up in...

    Thanks man and let me know!


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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    let me check the data sheets first.  I live in Canada so shipping it across the border might not be the best idea ($$$ + paperwork)

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    You are looking for something like this?



    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    what’s the chip number on the larger chip?



    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    edited December 2019
    paqman said:
    what’s the chip number on the larger chip?


    I'll have to remove that heat shrink and see if the numbers are visible.  I suspect it's a DS2760, DS2408, DS2413 or DS2405.  One of those is the "switch".  But I see those called out specifically in the binary image.

    I passed a few of the stoker binary versions through "strings" to see what's going on.  If there were any hidden commands or perhaps credentials in the clear.  It looks like they "hardened" tini toward the later releases and removed the root user.  The image file contains the boot log from the previous load and you can see an error writing the /etc/passwd file, which is missing in the newest version.  but present in previous.  I think it'd be difficult to compromise the device without a jtag port or some administrative OneWire interface.

    The more I think about it, the more I just want to stick a fork in it...  Rock (John, Ken, and dana?) should have left instructions on how to do this.  Probably the best we can do without trying to boil the ocean is harvest spare probes from existing customers who abandon the product.
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    edited December 2019 
    foo@bar:~$ strings slush.cat.tbin | grep 128 -n4
1077-    [Done]
1078-[        Checking system files...       ]
1079-/tiniext
1080-/etc
1081:1root:f8491b67e91f837c13c3444965281bcee5fca964:128
1082-[ Loading flash utils: Size:
1083-/ram_lib.tlib
1084-ram_lib.tlib
1085-ipconfig -f -d


foo@bar:~$ strings slush.cat.tbin.new | grep -n4 tiniext
1096-reboot
1097-stats
1098-    [Done]
1099-[        Checking system files...       ]
1100:/tiniext
1101-[ Loading flash utils: Size:
1102-/ram_lib.tlib
1103-ram_lib.tlib
1104-bbq -t

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  • speed51133
    speed51133 Posts: 691
    can't you guys just ask the owner for the sourcing information? if he is walking away from it, he may just give it to you. maybe an agreement that you will only use it for repair parts??
    XL BGE and Kamado Joe Jr.
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  • murwil
    murwil Posts: 7
    I believe this is who developed the Stoker Software: https://kaytat.com/blog/?cat=17
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  • WeberWho
    WeberWho Posts: 11,524
    speed51133 said:
    can't you guys just ask the owner for the sourcing information? if he is walking away from it, he may just give it to you. maybe an agreement that you will only use it for repair parts??
    I believe someone has tried contacting them to buy or take over the business. The emails were left unanswered. 
    "The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan

    Minnesota
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  • DoubleEgger
    DoubleEgger Posts: 19,155
    WeberWho said:
    speed51133 said:
    can't you guys just ask the owner for the sourcing information? if he is walking away from it, he may just give it to you. maybe an agreement that you will only use it for repair parts??
    I believe someone has tried contacting them to buy or take over the business. The emails were left unanswered. 
    Not surprising. Customer service was non existent when they were actually in business. 
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  • WeberWho
    WeberWho Posts: 11,524
    DoubleEgger said:
    WeberWho said:
    speed51133 said:
    can't you guys just ask the owner for the sourcing information? if he is walking away from it, he may just give it to you. maybe an agreement that you will only use it for repair parts??
    I believe someone has tried contacting them to buy or take over the business. The emails were left unanswered. 
    Not surprising. Customer service was non existent when they were actually in business. 
    That is 100% correct 
    "The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan

    Minnesota
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    WeberWho said:
    I believe someone has tried contacting them to buy or take over the business. The emails were left unanswered. 
    I reached out, I'm sure others have.  Usually some money is better than no money.  If I ventured to guess, I would say that the business partners/IP holders are not in agreement.

    I'll still try the MAX31850K and see if it's recognized as a probe....  but I suspect it will not work.  I found this blurb of text later "The MAX31850K data format is very similar to that of the well known 1-Wire DS18B20 temp sensor but it is not drop in compatible without code changes to check for the new '1 Wire family' type".

    If something off-the-shelf isn't available, I'm going to just run mine until failure and purchase something new.
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  • Cookbook_Chip
    Cookbook_Chip Posts: 1,299
    brentm said:

    If something off-the-shelf isn't available, I'm going to just run mine until failure and purchase something new.
    ditto
    Lovin' my Large Egg since May 2012 (Richmond, VA) ... and makin' cookbooks at https://FamilyCookbookProject.com
    Stoker II wifi, Thermapen, and a Fork for plating photo purposes
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    brentm said:
    WeberWho said:
    I believe someone has tried contacting them to buy or take over the business. The emails were left unanswered. 
    I reached out, I'm sure others have.  Usually some money is better than no money.  If I ventured to guess, I would say that the business partners/IP holders are not in agreement.

    I'll still try the MAX31850K and see if it's recognized as a probe....  but I suspect it will not work.  I found this blurb of text later "The MAX31850K data format is very similar to that of the well known 1-Wire DS18B20 temp sensor but it is not drop in compatible without code changes to check for the new '1 Wire family' type".

    If something off-the-shelf isn't available, I'm going to just run mine until failure and purchase something new.
    There aren’t a whole lot of thermocouple 1-wire chips so there is actually a good chance this will work.  Remember, 1-wire is how the message is delivered, the message sent depends on the chip.  I actually have a few spare DS2413 breakout boards here and they have nothing to do with temperature probes so I doubt that the chips you mentioned earlier have anything to do with the probes themselves.  Maybe the blower?  I’m pretty sure I see a chip number on the small black chip in your probe picture.

    It is possible that support for the 31850 was added in the firmware later in the product lifecycle.

    You may need a logic level shifter depending on the line voltage.

    Does anyone here have a dead probe?

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    Adafruit has a 31850 breakout board:
    https://www.adafruit.com/product/1727

    I’d order from them rather than. seeeds studio

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • speed51133
    speed51133 Posts: 691
    edited December 2019
    brentm said:
      If I ventured to guess, I would say that the business partners/IP holders are not in agreement.

    how do you know there is any IP owned??? what is the actual name of the "rock bbq" guy?
    XL BGE and Kamado Joe Jr.
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    edited December 2019
    speed51133 said:
    brentm said:
      If I ventured to guess, I would say that the business partners/IP holders are not in agreement.

    how do you know there is any IP owned??? what is the actual name of the "rock bbq" guy?
    I posted a gut shot of the product earlier in the thread.  The design of the stoker PCB, the case design, the name, the fan shrouds, the connectors (probe) board designs, and the stoker controller software/code/script would all be intellectual property, in my opinion. 

    I think their names are John and Ken.  

    paqman said:
    There aren’t a whole lot of thermocouple 1-wire chips so there is actually a good chance this will work.  Remember, 1-wire is how the message is delivered, the message sent depends on the chip.  I actually have a few spare DS2413 breakout boards here and they have nothing to do with temperature probes so I doubt that the chips you mentioned earlier have anything to do with the probes themselves.  Maybe the blower?  I’m pretty sure I see a chip number on the small black chip in your probe picture.

    It is possible that support for the 31850 was added in the firmware later in the product lifecycle.

    You may need a logic level shifter depending on the line voltage.

    Does anyone here have a dead probe?
    I think one of the chips is onboard the Stoker and acts as the switch or bus.  I'm not able to determine how the stoker knows if it's a food or pit probe, or blower.  Since the blower is likely a 1-wire relay passing on the +5 from the stoker, I'd assumed they identify blowers and probes based on their chip type.

    I'll take a look at my probes and see if one is ripe to peel back the adhesive/shrink with my heat gun.  Hopefully they're not sanded off.
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    guh - sanded


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  • WeberWho
    WeberWho Posts: 11,524
    I don't know a lick of what you guys are talking about but I'm somehow fascinated with it all. I hope you guys get it figured out.  
    "The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan

    Minnesota
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    i went to the store thinking about it, and thought maybe i could make out an outline with a black light.  well.... the letters are just too faint.  here it is, numbers intact.

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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    DS2780A?

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    or DS2760A?  I guess that’s the one based on the list that you provided earlier.  It makes no sense though, it is a battery monitoring chip.  That would be a curious design choice.

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • Rock
    Rock Posts: 9
    The probe chips can be either DS2760 or DS2762 the blower chips are DS2413. Keep in mind the DS276x chips have temp sensors inside that do cold junction compensation. it is difficult to solder thermocouple wires hence the crimps on the wires. They terminate right next to the chip to get the most accurate compensation. I will be help out with info as time permits. I am the designer of the hardware.
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,920
    Bingo, found this:

    the output voltage from a thermocouple is very small; in the range of a few micro volts or less so it cannot be directly sent to the Stamp for measurement. However, Dallas/Maxim has created the DS2760, which is a microchip used to precisely monitor the voltage from a lithium ion battery. 

    The DS2760 is also implemented to measure thermocouple output voltages. 


    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • brentm
    brentm Posts: 422
    paqman said:
    or DS2760A?  I guess that’s the one based on the list that you provided earlier.  It makes no sense though, it is a battery monitoring chip.  That would be a curious design choice.
    Yeah, DS2760A.  I'd seen some talk of a thermocouple kit based on that chip.  But yeah, they call it a battery monitor chip.

    I'm going to guess that the blower is a DS2413 Dual Channel Switch.
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  • speed51133
    speed51133 Posts: 691
    I meant full names. First and last. If they do have any IP (patents) I can look it up and it will detail how they work. If it was a trade secret, well carry on....
    XL BGE and Kamado Joe Jr.
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  • Rock
    Rock Posts: 9
    K type thermocouple output happens to scale perfectly withe the DS2760 and DS2762. A reference design was done early on by I believe by a DS engineer. 
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  • Rock
    Rock Posts: 9
    speed51133 said:
    I meant full names. First and last. If they do have any IP (patents) I can look it up and it will detail how they work. If it was a trade secret, well carry on....
    I am the owner of Rocks Barbque. What do have in mind with the designs?
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