Pie crust?

Theophan · March 2019

My ex was a fantastic pie maker, and she always said that it's much less the recipe than knowing exactly how much fat per flour, and especially exactly how much ice water to add, and that the only way you can nail that down is by just doing it, over and over and over again. If you keep using different recipes, you may never be able to correlate exactly when it "looks right."

The same flour from the same manufacturer, even from the same bag if it sits around and maybe changes humidity, can be different. Apparently you just have to know by looking at it when the right amount of fat has been added, and especially when it's the right amount of ice water. Too much and it's not flaky, but too little and it falls apart. You might want to try a few different recipes (sounds like you already have), and then pick one and stick with it, and make pie after pie after pie, and keep paying attention to what it looks like before and after you add the water, how it feels, etc., and then how it turned out. After a while, you'll be able to correlate how it looked to how it turned out, and now you're an experienced, skillful pie maker.

dharley · March 2019

This is what I use. It's at very least a good starting point.

https://youtu.be/ZIOmvvzAnGg

caliking · March 2019

@theophan - that's essentially the process i used for bread making. Had to find a base recipe that seemed promising, then tweaked individual variables until I had a better understanding of how they affected the final product.

And yes, you are right that pontificating about things only gets one so far. Time to jump in and get it done.

caliking · March 2019

Eggcelsior said:

Check out Kenji’s and Stella’s recipes on Serious Eats. Both are excellent. Kenji's is your traditional pie crust. Stella's has more butter so it bakes up super flakey, like a croissant.

Thanks, D. I'll take a look.

caliking · March 2019

nolaegghead said:

This has me thinking (and I'm sure someone has played around with this) about having total control over crust. I have been playing around with some food science, and although I'm not gluten intolerant, I have messed around with flours that are gluten free, and used xanthan gum to basically replace/emulate the gluten's job in creating the structure that "foam" develops...for bread. Also that structure makes all the difference in a final product that crumbles easily or has the integrity of a hockey puck.

So, not having looked but with my experience, I know other flours are used in the gluten-free world, like brown rice flour, arrow root, tapioca (careful!), etc.

All those gluten free flours make terrible bread by themselves, but with a relatively tiny amount of xanthan gum, you can basically make them emulate wheat flours with varying degrees of protein content.

I think this whole gluten thing, and how the gluten and fat are treated (keep cold, etc) are key to the characteristics of the crust.

Damn you, Ashish, for digging up more rabbit holes.

I'm intrigued by this concept, but somewhat ambivalent. The fun factor might be greatly diminished if one had "total control". But I want to know how it turns out.

I haven't eaten many gluten-free baked foods, but i (not infrequently) advise folks to eat them . I've thought about trying them myself, just to have some frame of reference.

SciAggie · March 2019

fishlessman said:

lard or butter or lard and butter. the trick for flakey crust though is everything cold....the butter, the lard, the water, the bowl, THE BOARD YOU ROLL IT OUT ON(ICE IT DOWN). ice down a section of granite counter or a white marble pie crust board. dont over work it, you want to see the fat lumps in the crust, overworking it warms the crust, melts the fat. i usually just buy the crust though and deal with it not being great

This. Keep things COLD. You want the butter to remain solid. Since butter has a high moisture content - when the crust bakes and the butter gets hot - the moisture steams and creates the flaky crust we all crave. At least thats what I believe. I know keeping things cold works. It does magic when making biscuits as well.

blind99 · March 2019

half lard, half butter. cold water. work quickly, mixing things in a cuisinart, bowl and blade chilled in fridge first. real rendered animal lard, not the hydrogenated "lard" in the white and green box. even better, lard from animals fed by eggheads.

if you want more specifics, i'm sure the wife would send you her recipe. it's great.

caliking · March 2019

blind99 said:

half lard, half butter. cold water. work quickly, mixing things in a cuisinart, bowl and blade chilled in fridge first. real rendered animal lard, not the hydrogenated "lard" in the white and green box. even better, lard from animals fed by eggheads.

if you want more specifics, i'm sure the wife would send you her recipe. it's great.

I would love to try Mrs. blind99’s recipe, if she would be willing to share.

It seems like I need to work out the right flour:fat ratio, and the least mixing of the dough necessary to make it work.

Thanks all for the helpful tips. I’ll be back with results as I work through this.

AprèsSki · March 2019

Eggcelsior said:

Check out Kenji’s and Stella’s recipes on Serious Eats. Both are excellent. Kenji's is your traditional pie crust. Stella's has more butter so it bakes up super flakey, like a croissant.

Kenji developed the vodka pie dough recipe for Cooks Illustrated. It is my go-to for most pies and very easy to work with as it is wetter than traditional recipes.

nolaegghead · March 2019

the high fat content is important to keep water out of the crust. it's like oiling leather boots

henapple · March 2019

You tried a recipe for pie crust from the NYT? lmao.

caliking · March 2019

henapple said:

You tried a recipe for pie crust from the NYT? lmao.

They said they got it from yo’ momma. I figured it was worth a try.

nolaegghead · March 2019

henapple said:

You tried a recipe for pie crust from the NYT? lmao.

Welcome back Tony. Groan.

Pie crust?

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