To soak or not to soak

CraftBeernBBQ · July 2018

Using some jack daniels whiskey barrel chips for my brisket tonight -

Do you all recommend soaking them or not

TEXASBGE2018 · July 2018

I wouldn't use wood chips. They burn up to quickly and can cause heat spikes. Can you get ahold of some Hickory chunks easily?

CraftBeernBBQ · July 2018

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I wouldn't use wood chips. They burn up to quickly and can cause heat spikes. Can you get ahold of some Hickory chunks easily?

Yes I can get hickory and oak chunks

TEXASBGE2018 · July 2018

I would try to go with those. You will have a much better smoke profile and you wont have to worry about heat spikes. Use around 4 Fist sized Chunks.

CraftBeernBBQ · July 2018

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I would try to go with those. You will have a much better smoke profile and you wont have to worry about heat spikes. Use around 4 Fist sized Chunks.

Thanks!!!

TEXASBGE2018 · July 2018

CraftBeernBBQ said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

I would try to go with those. You will have a much better smoke profile and you wont have to worry about heat spikes. Use around 4 Fist sized Chunks.

Thanks!!!

No problem. Be sure to post pics and have fun.

nolaegghead · July 2018

Soaking is a way to delay smoke. But you can get that delay buy burying the smoke wood throughout the lump.

Insofar as chips or chunks go, in a low and slow the amount of air you let through the egg determines the rate of burn. Just like if you have small or large chunks of lump, it doesn't have much, if any, impact on how hot your fire is given the position of the vents.

lkapigian · July 2018

if using chips, make a heavy foil pouch, fill it with chips and poke a few holes

TEXASBGE2018 · July 2018

lkapigian said:

if using chips, make a heavy foil pouch, fill it with chips and poke a few holes

That's a good idea. I never thought about that.

BigGreenBean · July 2018

lkapigian said:

if using chips, make a heavy foil pouch, fill it with chips and poke a few holes

Can you be more specific on size? Golf ball, bread box, pack of cards?

lkapigian · July 2018

BigGreenBean said:

lkapigian said:

if using chips, make a heavy foil pouch, fill it with chips and poke a few holes

Can you be more specific on size? Golf ball, bread box, pack of cards?

Depends , 6x6 ish enough for a good handful....bigger is ok as well

stlcharcoal · July 2018

I use chips all the time. If you're below 225-250F, and your Egg is tight, they're not going to burn up any more quickly than chunks. In fact, I did a brisket and butt on the XL Sunday and there are chips in the firebox that didn't even burn because the fire never got to them. I'll take a picture of it because it was funny how this fire snaked around.

On the soaking, you can soak them all day and they're not really going to take on any more water than they would in just a minute. That's why wooden boats don't sink. Like NOLA said, I just do it to delay the smoke so I don't get a face full when I'm setting up the plate setter, drip pans, etc......buys you a few minutes.

nolaegghead · July 2018

stlcharcoal said:

I use chips all the time. If you're below 225-250F, and your Egg is tight, they're not going to burn up any more quickly than chunks. In fact, I did a brisket and butt on the XL Sunday and there are chips in the firebox that didn't even burn because the fire never got to them. I'll take a picture of it because it was funny how this fire snaked around.

On the soaking, you can soak them all day and they're not really going to take on any more water than they would in just a minute. That's why wooden boats don't sink. Like NOLA said, I just do it to delay the smoke so I don't get a face full when I'm setting up the plate setter, drip pans, etc......buys you a few minutes.

This - 100% correct.

We fight about this couple times a year from the beginning of time.

The problem is, people believe what they can see happening, and if you throw chips into a weber or an egg with the top open, yeah, the chips burn fast. But with the lid closed and an anaerobic (lean) fire, the chips are just like everything else in there. They're just fuel and they burn in accordance to their position to the fire.

I see chips unburned wherever I see lump unburned, and I see chips burned where I see lump burned - after I do a low and slow.

TEXASBGE2018 · July 2018

stlcharcoal said:

I use chips all the time. If you're below 225-250F, and your Egg is tight, they're not going to burn up any more quickly than chunks. In fact, I did a brisket and butt on the XL Sunday and there are chips in the firebox that didn't even burn because the fire never got to them. I'll take a picture of it because it was funny how this fire snaked around.

On the soaking, you can soak them all day and they're not really going to take on any more water than they would in just a minute. That's why wooden boats don't sink. Like NOLA said, I just do it to delay the smoke so I don't get a face full when I'm setting up the plate setter, drip pans, etc......buys you a few minutes.

Well I can argue with nola just because its so much fun, but if he's backed up by a man that makes charcoal for a living I'm a little less inclined. I have a question then, why does pretty much every article I've read say the opposite? This is taken from a seriouseats article. I've read the same on Amazing Ribs. I understand that less oxygen means less ignition of the chips but a small piece of wood is going to burn up much faster than a large chunk is it not regardless of oxygen? Are you saying that just because of the sheer number of chips if evenly distributed throughout the lump the end result is the same?

Chips are scraps and shavings of wood that ignite quickly, but also burn out pretty fast. The biggest advantage to these are they're more readily available in a wide variety in stores. Other than that, I find the short burn time a reason to skip them unless totally necessary.

Chunks are usually about fist-size pieces of wood and my choice for getting things smoking. They take longer to fully ignite than chips, but burn for a good hour in a grill, and hours in a smoker.

TEXASBGE2018 · July 2018

nolaegghead said:

stlcharcoal said:

I use chips all the time. If you're below 225-250F, and your Egg is tight, they're not going to burn up any more quickly than chunks. In fact, I did a brisket and butt on the XL Sunday and there are chips in the firebox that didn't even burn because the fire never got to them. I'll take a picture of it because it was funny how this fire snaked around.

On the soaking, you can soak them all day and they're not really going to take on any more water than they would in just a minute. That's why wooden boats don't sink. Like NOLA said, I just do it to delay the smoke so I don't get a face full when I'm setting up the plate setter, drip pans, etc......buys you a few minutes.

This - 100% correct.

We fight about this couple times a year from the beginning of time.

The problem is, people believe what they can see happening, and if you throw chips into a weber or an egg with the top open, yeah, the chips burn fast. But with the lid closed and an anaerobic (lean) fire, the chips are just like everything else in there. They're just fuel and they burn in accordance to their position to the fire.

I see chips unburned wherever I see lump unburned, and I see chips burned where I see lump burned - after I do a low and slow.

I guess I can see that. Its like a mind warp though. You are right most of my experience with chips have always been when I had my Weber Kettle.

nolaegghead · July 2018

TEXASBGE2018 said:

stlcharcoal said:

I use chips all the time. If you're below 225-250F, and your Egg is tight, they're not going to burn up any more quickly than chunks. In fact, I did a brisket and butt on the XL Sunday and there are chips in the firebox that didn't even burn because the fire never got to them. I'll take a picture of it because it was funny how this fire snaked around.

On the soaking, you can soak them all day and they're not really going to take on any more water than they would in just a minute. That's why wooden boats don't sink. Like NOLA said, I just do it to delay the smoke so I don't get a face full when I'm setting up the plate setter, drip pans, etc......buys you a few minutes.

Well I can argue with nola just because its so much fun, but if he's backed up by a man that makes charcoal for a living I'm a little less inclined. I have a question then, why does pretty much every article I've read say the opposite? This is taken from a seriouseats article. I've read the same on Amazing Ribs. I understand that less oxygen means less ignition of the chips but a small piece of wood is going to burn up much faster than a large chunk is it not regardless of oxygen? Are you saying that just because of the sheer number of chips if evenly distributed throughout the lump the end result is the same?
Chips are scraps and shavings of wood that ignite quickly, but also burn out pretty fast. The biggest advantage to these are they're more readily available in a wide variety in stores. Other than that, I find the short burn time a reason to skip them unless totally necessary.
Chunks are usually about fist-size pieces of wood and my choice for getting things smoking. They take longer to fully ignite than chips, but burn for a good hour in a grill, and hours in a smoker.

There is a simple explanation - different types of smokers have different types of fires.

Where you have a smoker that burns a hot fire in an oxygen rich environment, like an offset, the chips will burn faster because the fire will be opportunistic and look for maximum surface area to ignite.

But the egg running with the vents closed down is a small fire, limited by the air/oxygen you're letting in. When you open the lid, the fire blows up and you get hit by a blast of very humid air. The humidity is high because there's not enough bypass air in it to flush out the combustion products.

stlcharcoal · July 2018

TEXASBGE2018 said:

stlcharcoal said:

I use chips all the time. If you're below 225-250F, and your Egg is tight, they're not going to burn up any more quickly than chunks. In fact, I did a brisket and butt on the XL Sunday and there are chips in the firebox that didn't even burn because the fire never got to them. I'll take a picture of it because it was funny how this fire snaked around.

On the soaking, you can soak them all day and they're not really going to take on any more water than they would in just a minute. That's why wooden boats don't sink. Like NOLA said, I just do it to delay the smoke so I don't get a face full when I'm setting up the plate setter, drip pans, etc......buys you a few minutes.

Well I can argue with nola just because its so much fun, but if he's backed up by a man that makes charcoal for a living I'm a little less inclined. I have a question then, why does pretty much every article I've read say the opposite? This is taken from a seriouseats article. I've read the same on Amazing Ribs. I understand that less oxygen means less ignition of the chips but a small piece of wood is going to burn up much faster than a large chunk is it not regardless of oxygen? Are you saying that just because of the sheer number of chips if evenly distributed throughout the lump the end result is the same?
Chips are scraps and shavings of wood that ignite quickly, but also burn out pretty fast. The biggest advantage to these are they're more readily available in a wide variety in stores. Other than that, I find the short burn time a reason to skip them unless totally necessary.
Chunks are usually about fist-size pieces of wood and my choice for getting things smoking. They take longer to fully ignite than chips, but burn for a good hour in a grill, and hours in a smoker.

Probably because these folks have never used a kamado. They are given drafty Weber bullets or stick burners by their advertisers or underwriters and that's what they are accustomed to anyway. A Kamado is a totally different animal when it comes to regulating airflow and temps due to how air tight and well insulated they are.

Look no further than how much charcoal you use. 7# in a large will last 24+ hrs at 225F. How long can you go in a bullet or kettle with 7#? Because it's so well insulated, the amount of BTUs it uses to maintain temp is minimal. BTUs are from fire, which is heat, o2, and fuel. The fuel and heat is fixed, so you meter the o2 to control the heat output this btus used. So if you have a big stick burner with no insulation, you're losing heat like crazy through radiation, and its burning more charcoal to maintain temp.....bigger fire means it will burn through wood faster. Wood lights off at 300-400s, where as carbon needs 670F.

Last thing about experts, Americas Test Kitchen will tell you lump is too hard to control, burns faster, and is not worth the money. They also say the BGE is an overpriced toy and their Weber gas grill can do the same thing for less money. I guarantee they didn't pay for those brand new shiny Webers they have on every show.

lousubcap · July 2018

BTU properties are the same regardless of the size of the item being burned. I intentionally laid the wood chips and chunks (Jack Daniel's chips and chunks) to the nominal burn pattern I see with L&S cooks this past weekend with a brisket cook. Produced a great smoke ring-and to answer the initial question no soaking. The ease of blending the chips in with the lump load can give you a near-constant smoke presence for the duration. Couple that with strategically placed chunks and you are home-free. FWIW-

stlcharcoal · July 2018

Here are those pics. Hard to see the 3D of this, but basically the fire burned a cantaloupe sized hole in in the firebox. You can see the bottom grate of the KAB, and that's a wall of about 6" of charcoal right next to it. Egg was cleaned out when I started, 235 for about 15 hrs with a FB200 and some overhyped brand of lump. See all the unburned cherry chips?

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/rn/fv9mhq14g2eq.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/68/w35hktkwhqy1.jpg

lousubcap · July 2018

@stlcharcoal - Thanks for the pics. On a side note you may want to revisit how you load your smoke wood...

stlcharcoal · July 2018

lousubcap said:

@stlcharcoal - Thanks for the pics. On a side note you may want to revisit how you load your smoke wood...

I had about two handfuls of chips on there, plus a few chunks in the middle. Plenty of smoke on the butt and brisket. Because of this phenomena (which is especially prevalent with the XL because of it's wide & shallow fire box), I always put a lot more wood in......as I know it might not all burn. (And because I have an unlimited supply of wood chunks & chips)

AmericanFlannel · July 2018

This is a fun argument , but if you have unburnt chips that doesn't mean they last just as long - that means they were never set on fire and never produced smoke right? The question would be - do you see partially burnt chips?

I mean I often have partially burnt chunks left over.

mEGG_My_Day · July 2018

CraftBeernBBQ said:

Using some jack daniels whiskey barrel chips for my brisket tonight -
Do you all recommend soaking them or not

I’m not gonna get into all the thermodynamics and heat transfer. But imop, Just mix them all in there and enjoy the cook - it’ll be fine and save some time.

stlcharcoal · July 2018

AmericanFlannel said:

This is a fun argument , but if you have unburnt chips that doesn't mean they last just as long - that means they were never set on fire and never produced smoke right? The question would be - do you see partially burnt chips?

I mean I often have partially burnt chunks left over.

Right, they never burned. Wood lights off around 300-400F, so the fire in the fire box never made it over there. That wood isn't even charred. It's more brittle because it's been dried out / kilned even more, but it was never burned per se.

What you don't see in that pic is all the other wood chips that did burn.....you can see the ash. Wood produces a lot more ash than charcoal.

To soak or not to soak

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