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Bourbon News
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YukonRon said:I saw this and thought I would share with those wishing to do the bourbon trail:
https://roadtrippers.com/trips/10427572
Near Music City in the Boro
LBGE, Joe,Jr
Free is better than cheap
If it's worth telling, it's worth exaggerating -
Possumtrot said:YukonRon said:I saw this and thought I would share with those wishing to do the bourbon trail:
https://roadtrippers.com/trips/10427572"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
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Went looking for the Henry McKenna on the way home but no luck so far, I’ll keep hunting. In the meantime enjoying some buffalo trace
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Very nice pour. Love the ice."Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
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An excerpt found in the Smithsonian, in an article written by Laura Kiniry, from an interview with Larry Veach, a Bourbon Historian from Louisville:
"The name evolved in New Orleans after two men known as the Tarascon brothers arrived to Louisville from south of Cognac, France, and began shipping local whiskey down the Ohio River to Louisiana’s bustling port city. They knew that if Kentuckians put their whiskey into charred barrels they could sell it to New Orleans’ residents, who would like it because it tastes more like cognac or ‘French brandy'.
In the 19th century, New Orleans entertainment district was Bourbon Street, as it is today. “People starting asking for ‘that whiskey they sell on Bourbon Street,’” he says, “which eventually became ‘that bourbon whiskey.’” Still, Veach concedes, “We may never know who actually invented bourbon, or even who the first Kentucky distiller was.”
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
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Elijah Craig has been widely credited for the creation of Bourbon Whiskey, which, in fact, nobody really knows.
He was from Virginia, and his work was a Baptist preacher, and in fact, was jailed twice for preaching without a license. He left Virginia in the late 1700's to move to Kentucky County, ( The Commonwealth of Kentucky, and the State of West Virginia were both counties of Virginia, prior to becoming border states )
Elijah did many great things; built the first school west of the Allegheny Mountains, created Georgetown College, became a capitalist entrepreneur, preached for the freedom of slaves, and lobbied for better treatment for them ( odd since he was a slave owner for a few years ) and eventually owned 16 square miles of land in what later was called Woodford county and Scott County.
He never owned land in Bourbon county, which was named for Marquis de Lafayette, from the House of Bourbon, as legend has it.
He was one of 100's distilling whiskey at the time, using corn, instead of the red rye that was used for whiskey, back east.
He has been legendarily credited with being the first to use charred barrels to store whiskey. The legend has it that he had old sugar barrels made from oak that was in a storage shed that caught fire. The barrels burned, but were still good enough to store whiskey.
Whiskey was very important, because at that time it was used like money, for trade. You stored it in whatever you had.
Whether or not that actually occurred, nobody really knows.
Elijah Craig today, is the oldest bourbon available. The 18 year old is poured from barrels that has lost 2/3 of its contents to the angel share, which has evaporated out.
It is the oldest known recipe in use today, using the same process from over 200 years ago. It is a very well made bourbon and has the awards to back it. The Beam brothers, after buying the distillery, have kept all processes in place.
Elijah Craig died in 1805. He was broke. His fortune he had built was lost. Many others came west to build their fortunes, and he fell prey to the better and faster.
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
Found myself a bottle for $36.25. Can’t wait to crack it open
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Nice haul. COSTCO has Elijah Craig, single barrel, 18 yo, for $32.65 today. It was selling out."Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
Has anyone tried Bullet bourbon? I’m more of a Maker’s Mark fan myself. Just wondering if anyone had any insights to it?
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@Woadie
Personal opinion only......Bulliet Bourbon is a mighty fine pour. I prefer it to Maker's Mark, but again, that is just my personal preference.
Many folks, from Kentucky, remember when Maker's Mark was one of the least expensive pours you could buy and did not have a large following, which kept it a fairly local bourbon.
Bill Samuel's bought the distillery in the late 1950's for $35,000.00, which was formerly known as "Burks Distillery."
The bottle design was modified and the wax seal was added, with no change to the recipe. Then over night, it was considered a premium bourbon, and became priced as such.
It has since become the most recognized symbol in the bourbon industry, and has become almost universal in its appeal to bourbon customers.The current Bulleit bourbon whiskey mash bill contains 68% corn, 28% rye, and 4% malted barley. It is bottled at 45% abv.
Bulleit Bourbon Barrel Strength is a blend of barrels which are 5 to 8 years old. As it is being bottled straight from the barrel the ABV varies by batch, ranging from 118-125 (59 to 62.5 ABV).
Bulleit Bourbon 10 Year is the only age dated Bulleit whiskey. It is bottled at 91.2 U.S. proof and has the same mash bill as the original Bulleit Bourbon. It won a Double Gold Medal at the 2013 San Francisco World Spirits Competition.
Hope this helps. Thank you for reading and partcipating.
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
Interesting all the theories on the charred barrels.
At the Buffalo Trace tour they said that in the day, the barrels were the preferred shipping containers for getting things to the remote hills. they would ship everything from sugar to fish. In order to sterilize the flavors they found if they charred the barrels they could reuse them to ship the white dog down the Mississippi to New Orleans. Due to the cold of the river and the heat of the air it pushed and pulled enough to make the white dog into bourbon from the barrels.
XL, Small, Mini & Mini Max Green Egg, Shirley Fab Trailer, 6 gal and 2.5 gal Cajun Fryers, BlueStar 60" Range, 48" Lonestar Grillz Santa Maria, Alto Shaam 1200s, Gozney Dome, Gateway 55g Drum -
YukonRon said:@Woadie
Personal opinion only......Bulliet Bourbon is a mighty fine pour. I prefer it to Maker's Mark, but again, that is just my personal preference.
Many folks, from Kentucky, remember when Maker's Mark was one of the least expensive pours you could buy and did not have a large following, which kept it a fairly local bourbon.
Bill Samuel's bought the distillery in the late 1950's for $35,000.00, which was formerly known as "Burks Distillery."
The bottle design was modified and the wax seal was added, with no change to the recipe. Then over night, it was considered a premium bourbon, and became priced as such.
It has since become the most recognized symbol in the bourbon industry, and has become almost universal in its appeal to bourbon customers.The current Bulleit bourbon whiskey mash bill contains 68% corn, 28% rye, and 4% malted barley. It is bottled at 45% abv.
Bulleit Bourbon Barrel Strength is a blend of barrels which are 5 to 8 years old. As it is being bottled straight from the barrel the ABV varies by batch, ranging from 118-125 (59 to 62.5 ABV).
Bulleit Bourbon 10 Year is the only age dated Bulleit whiskey. It is bottled at 91.2 U.S. proof and has the same mash bill as the original Bulleit Bourbon. It won a Double Gold Medal at the 2013 San Francisco World Spirits Competition.
Hope this helps. Thank you for reading and partcipating.
XL, Small, Mini & Mini Max Green Egg, Shirley Fab Trailer, 6 gal and 2.5 gal Cajun Fryers, BlueStar 60" Range, 48" Lonestar Grillz Santa Maria, Alto Shaam 1200s, Gozney Dome, Gateway 55g Drum -
Another vote for Bulleit as a solid pour. One of the best out there for the price.
As @YukonRon noted the Bulleit mash bill does not contain any wheat while MM does. Right there is a noticeable flavor profile difference. FWIW-Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period. -
Good deal. Thanks for the info. I saw some yesterday and might have to go pick up a bottle and try it out.
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Tellimoredew is my go to Irish wiskey.. nice smooth and doesn't hit the wallet to hardXL.......for now
Kernersville, NC -
Thatgrimguy said:dYukonRon said:@Woadie
Personal opinion only......Bulliet Bourbon is a mighty fine pour. I prefer it to Maker's Mark, but again, that is just my personal preference.
Many folks, from Kentucky, remember when Maker's Mark was one of the least expensive pours you could buy and did not have a large following, which kept it a fairly local bourbon.
Bill Samuel's bought the distillery in the late 1950's for $35,000.00, which was formerly known as "Burks Distillery."
The bottle design was modified and the wax seal was added, with no change to the recipe. Then over night, it was considered a premium bourbon, and became priced as such.
It has since become the most recognized symbol in the bourbon industry, and has become almost universal in its appeal to bourbon customers.The current Bulleit bourbon whiskey mash bill contains 68% corn, 28% rye, and 4% malted barley. It is bottled at 45% abv.
Bulleit Bourbon Barrel Strength is a blend of barrels which are 5 to 8 years old. As it is being bottled straight from the barrel the ABV varies by batch, ranging from 118-125 (59 to 62.5 ABV).
Bulleit Bourbon 10 Year is the only age dated Bulleit whiskey. It is bottled at 91.2 U.S. proof and has the same mash bill as the original Bulleit Bourbon. It won a Double Gold Medal at the 2013 San Francisco World Spirits Competition.
Hope this helps. Thank you for reading and partcipating.
Scott, thank you for the insight, and adding to the discussion. Hope all is going well for you.
My Beautiful Wife and I are both ambassadors for Maker's Mark. Which basically means, we filled out the necessary information to get a Christmas card and a small gift.
We take folks to Maker's Mark, when they visit to get their own bottle, and dip it, too. We also, have heard the story, several times, and as with our guests, enjoy the visit.
As ardent as the Samuel's are about recipe change from Burk's, (a wheat bourbon whiskey then as well), most people across the commonwealth, as well as those local to the old Burk's distillery and grist mill, which have also had more than a sip or two of both Burks and Maker's Mark over the years, are equally as adamant there has been no noticeable change.
There needs to be a reason, real or imagined, to justify taking what the locals once drank to a premium price bourbon.
Fair or not, marketing gets the blame. Maybe that is why they intentionally spelled "Whiskey" incorrectly on the label, and make special commemorative bottling serveral times a year.
(We are guilty, we have a couple, signed and dated.)
Perhaps there has been a variant in the recipe, or a total change all together. Who knows? I have had both. I may not have the palette of the experts, such as yourself, but I was unable to discern much of a difference. To be fair, the taste test was from an old bottle of Burk's versus a bottle released from Maker's back in the 80's. To me, the difference then was what one would expect from batch to batch, back at that time, so I could understand why the experts tend to theorize the claimed recipe change was the same as the old Burk's.
That is what makes bourbon sipping the fun which it is today. Taste will differ from barrel to barrel, and especially so, when aging across the varying weather of the seasons, on a year to year basis, while stored here in Kentucky. The variation from spring to spring has a crazy wild swing, to be sure.
In fact, that is why many of the bourbon distilleries in Kentucky, have started building caves for storage (as winemakers have done), to minimize the effect of the weather to the aging process, which they are subject to currently in the large, non climate controlled warehouses the bourbon is stored in presently.
Besides the water used in Kentucky Bourbon, which is effected by limestone, the limestone lends itself to excellent caves. There is a National Park dedicated to one of those caves here in Kentucky.
I understand the reasoning, but for me personally, I think it will have an effect on the individual personality of each barrel. I am not the expert that others, such as yourself, are about the bourbon industry, but change is coming. Good or bad, there will be an added difference.
We will be having dinner this evening with the architect that is doing these for several of the distilleries, and is currently working with Maker's Mark. It should be interesting conversation, to say the least."Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
Stubby said:Tellimoredew is my go to Irish wiskey.. nice smooth and doesn't hit the wallet to hard
During our last trip to Ireland we stayed in the town where it was made. I liked it. We still get a bottle from time to time, worth every penny."Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
CigarCityEgger said:Found myself a bottle for $36.25. Can’t wait to crack it open
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XL 6/06, Mini 6/12, L 10/12, Mini #2 12/14 MiniMax 3/16 Large #2 11/20 Legacy from my FIL - RIP
Tampa Bay, FL
EIB 6 Oct 95 -
thetrim said:CigarCityEgger said:Found myself a bottle for $36.25. Can’t wait to crack it openUbi panis, ibi patria.
Large - Roswell rig, MiniMax-PS Woo; Cocoa, Fl. -
SamIAm2 said:thetrim said:CigarCityEgger said:Found myself a bottle for $36.25. Can’t wait to crack it open=======================================
XL 6/06, Mini 6/12, L 10/12, Mini #2 12/14 MiniMax 3/16 Large #2 11/20 Legacy from my FIL - RIP
Tampa Bay, FL
EIB 6 Oct 95 -
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An interesting piece, by Jack Sullivan, that ties in Basil Hayden, JW Dant, Jim Beam, and a bourbon Mark Twain has been known to enjoy upon occasion, "Old Grand Dad"
Old Grand-Dad” Descended from the Hayden Family
One of America’s most familiar liquor labels is that of “Old Grand-Dad,” a brand of whiskey has been around for almost 122 years. Look closely at the portrait below taken from a current bottle of Old Grand-Dad. It is the likeness of Basil Hayden who is accounted there “Head of the Bourbon Family” and, it may be added, head of the Kentucky distilling Hayden family whose roots lie deep in antiquity.
According to Wikipedia, the Haydens can be traced back to England during the period shortly after the Norman conquest: “One ancestor, Simon de Heydon, was knighted by Richard the Lionheart in the Holy Land during the Third Crusade in the 1190s. His son, Thomas de Heydon, was made Justice Itinerant of Norfolk by Henry III. Around 1400, another ancestor, John Heydon, appears to have been associated with "The Grove"– a large estate in Watford (Hertfordshire), located about twenty miles northwest of London. Some researchers have speculated that John Heydon was given the estate for his father Sir Richard de Heydon's services in the French Wars, where Sir Richard perished.”
Things changed radically for the family during the 16th Century. After Henry the Eighth broke with the Pope of Rome, much of England became increasingly inhospitable to Catholics. As a result the Heydons (soon to change to “Hayden”) emigrated to the Virginia Colony during the 1660s. After a few years they moved to Maryland, a colony more welcoming to Catholics. They settled in St. Mary’s County on St. Clement’s Bay. There in the mid-1700s, Basil Hayden was born and raised. Apparently employed in the mercantile trades, Basil is said to have supplied provisions to the Colonial Army.
Not long after American independence in 1785 Basil led a group of twenty-five Catholic families from Maryland into what is now Nelson County, Kentucky, near present day Bardstown. They called the area “Greenbrier Station.” Their move likely was motivated by the opening of land for agriculture west of the Appalachian mountains. There Basil cleared his plot and established a farm. It appears that he also began distilling on small basis. Some accounts say that he was notable for using a larger amount of rye in his whiskey than other distillers in the area. Basil also was noted for having donated the land for the first Catholic church west of the Alleghenies and the first in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
After Basil’s death, the distilling tradition was carried on by a son, Lewis, sometime about 1820. He was married to a woman named Polly who was a member of the Dant whiskey-making family. Lewis is recorded in the 1830 census living in Nelson County with his wife, eight sons, two daughters, and an elderly relative, likely his mother. Sometime during the 1840s Lewis died and was succeeded by one of his sons. Raymond Bishop (R.B.) Hayden. R.B. had been born in 1821, the second son. The 1850 U.S. Census found him living at home, age 29, with his 70-year-old mother and other family members. R.B. never married.
The distilling operation R.B. Hayden had inherited was a small one. He continued to pursue the liquor trade while engaged in major farming activities. In the 1870 Census the value of his property was counted at $30,000, the equivalent of $1.2 million in today’s dollar. Seeing the growth of the whiskey industry in Kentucky and particularly Nelson County, when he was in his late 50’s R.B. became the Hayden who took the family business into full-scale commercial production. In 1882 he built the R.B. Hayden & Company Distillery at Hobbs Station in Nelson County, shown here. He took as his partner in this enterprise F.L. Ferriell, himself the offspring of a line of Kentucky distillers and a former Federal revenue agent. Their distillery had a daily mashing capacity of 100 bushels and could store 7,000 barrels for aging.
It was whiskey from the distillery of these partners that was first branded as “Old Grand-Dad” It historically has been believed that R.B. Hayden named the whiskey in honor of his grandfather, Basil, and that tradition has been honored up to the present day. As will be seen here, however, the image of the elderly gentleman has been altered from time to time.
Only three years after creating his distillery, R. B. Hayden died, leaving no heirs. His share of the facility was sold to a wealthy furrier and stock breeder and for a time the company was known as the Barber, Ferriell Distilling Company. It continue to feature Old Grand-Dad as its flagship brand. In 1899 the distillery was sold to the Wathen family. The Wathens, like the Haydens, were heirs of a distinguished distilling tradition. At the time of their purchase the Wathens also had become a major force on the Kentucky bourbon scene. They changed the name of Hobbs facility to “The Old Grand-Dad Distillery Company.” They also opened a sales office for the brand at 110 West Main Street in Louisville.
Nace Wathen became the distiller and manager of the Hobbs distillery only to see it destroyed by fire in 1900. It was quickly rebuilt to accommodate a 400 bushel mashing capacity and operated up until 1919 and the advent of National Prohibition. Then all the whiskey was removed to the Wathen’s federally regulated “concentration” warehouses and bottled for medicinal use. The distillery R.B. Hayden had built was allowed to fall into disrepair and today, it is said, no ruins remain to be seen.
Shown here are images of artifacts bearing the name Old Grand-Dad. It is doubtful that any of them date from the Hayden era. The Wathens were known for their vigorous merchandising and the pre-Prohibition artifacts here would have been issued during their ownership. After Repeal the Old Grand-Dad brand name went through a series of owners. Today the label is produced by the Jim Beam Company.
Although the Hayden distilling line disappeared more than a century ago, its major figures have not been forgotten. In addition to Basil’s face gracing the Old Grand-Dad label, Jim Beam since 1992 has produced a small-batch bourbon called Basil Hayden Bourbon. It comes in a fancy bottle with a paper “bib” that bears a short narrative about him. Aged eight years at 80 proof, it has been called “a nice sipping whiskey.” Nor did the distilling industry forget about Basil’s grandson. For a time before Prohibition, a brand of Kentucky whiskey was sold under the label, R. B. Hayden. A pocket mirror advertised it as an “Old Style Sour Mash” from Nelson County. Raymond Hayden, a detail of his graveyard monument shown here, likely would have been pleased with the recognition.
You can find this o oldwhiskeymenblog.com"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
@YukonRon That's really interesting. I'm no bourbon expert I was just finding it interesting how each tour contradicts each other and how information contradicts so often with bourbon. A lot of the history is fuzzy it seems.
Sorry if my internet tone came off argumentative. I meant to just point out how the entire tour I took a few weeks ago of Makers was about how you don't mess with Bill Samuels recipe and how he made his kids promise not to change his recipe. It's even funnier if it wasn't his recipe to start with. I mean the name is "Makers Mark" as in the mark of the maker. If you aren't even the maker and you have the gall to call it Makers Mark... Wow.XL, Small, Mini & Mini Max Green Egg, Shirley Fab Trailer, 6 gal and 2.5 gal Cajun Fryers, BlueStar 60" Range, 48" Lonestar Grillz Santa Maria, Alto Shaam 1200s, Gozney Dome, Gateway 55g Drum -
@Thatgrimguy - all I can offer is that around here it is about as heated as religion (or lump) elsewhere. And you are correct regarding the fuzzy alternative facts to support or refute the discussion. But unlike religion or lump, you can taste test and find what you like. I guess the truth is in the latest one telling the story.Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win. Life is too short for light/lite beer! Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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YukonRon said:Possumtrot said:YukonRon said:I saw this and thought I would share with those wishing to do the bourbon trail:
https://roadtrippers.com/trips/10427572Ellijay GA with a Medium & MiniMax
Well, I married me a wife, she's been trouble all my life,
Run me out in the cold rain and snow -
Thatgrimguy said:@YukonRon That's really interesting. I'm no bourbon expert I was just finding it interesting how each tour contradicts each other and how information contradicts so often with bourbon. A lot of the history is fuzzy it seems.
Sorry if my internet tone came off argumentative. I meant to just point out how the entire tour I took a few weeks ago of Makers was about how you don't mess with Bill Samuels recipe and how he made his kids promise not to change his recipe. It's even funnier if it wasn't his recipe to start with. I mean the name is "Makers Mark" as in the mark of the maker. If you aren't even the maker and you have the gall to call it Makers Mark... Wow.
None taken my friend, I as an occasional bourbon sipper, have no value to add other than local folk lore and personal experience as I too, actually have no idea, just know what I have read, heard and tasted.
In comparison, everyone around me has more expertise than I. This I admit freely. I have to agree with your statement 100%, it is certainly funny, to me anyway, the stories behind the bourbon, on the trail, and the manner in which they contradict each distilleries claim, and having done these tours on numerous occasions, the stories do change from time to time.
Living in Kentucky, I thought it fun to share the perspective of those here, especially the many that are around, more wise than me, and the few that are older.
Whether or not it has been changed, I dunno. My taste test was about as non scientific as it gets, and I sincerely doubt most of the folks here in Kentucky, have actually done the comparison, as it should be. I just shared my experience. It makes me no expert.
Bourbon in Kentucky is almost a religion amongst the natives here, and everybody has a favorite and a reason for it. Me, my favorite is whatever is in the glass in front of me, when amongst friends.
I was just trying to pass on the local perspective, which with all legends and memory, likely has been a bit more embellished than actual. It is one that you, I and others have seen the Samuel's vigorously defend, partly due to the locals perception, which may be right or wrong.
It is a discussion, that becomes extremely passionate, especially after the third glass of two fingers deep pours have been consumed by those with opposing views.
As mentioned previously, Maker's Mark is the most recognized bourbon, due to the bottle and the wax, which is vigorously protected in courts, around the world, to those who also wish to use the wax seal in bottling, on everything from spirits to syrup.
Change of recipe or not, nobody can deny its popularity.
The Bourbon industry in Kentucky is somewhat incestuous, given all the players and the impact they seem to have across all brands.
History is indeed fuzzy when it comes to origins of bourbon, and recipies were likely shared between the Irish, Scottish and French who settled the region.
Like I said before, who knows? Bill Samuels will tell you it is frustrating as heck to rid the perception, and has spent a lot of money to do so.
For his efforts, I raise a slushie in his honor.
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky
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