Question for Rockwood users

blind99 · January 2016

Jeepster47 said:

ng small pieces, talk to the store

Lump is made from lumber mill discards. Making it from the complete log would be prohibitively expensive. Thus, you'll see board-like cut offs from squaring up the logs ... and smaller branches, cut-off ends, etc..

I'm pretty sure the folks who make fogo don't use lumber mill discard. I think they just clear cut some more forest and make charcoal with it! I've gotten some ridiculous large stuff in those bags

jak7028 · January 2016

Stlcharcoal - thanks for chiming in and offering your knowledge. Someone else mention densities of woods also, sounds like maybe my bag was a soft or less dense wood so it burned quicker.

i know when troubleshooting, eliminate as many variables as you can to identify what caused the problem. Changing the charcoal was the only thing I did different I can identify. It was puzzling because rockwood has such a good reputation.

I even double checked my thermometers the after the cook to make check again they were accurate. Did the math on the cook time and it was a little longer than normal, but that was due to running about 15 degrees lower than normal and also running out of charcoal in the middle.

i know on a low and slow, the size of pieces don't affect the rate the charcoal burns. I just prefer larger pieces to make sure I get better air flow. On this cook, I had to have the vents more open than usual to sustain 230-240 cook temp.

i like the smaller pieces for direct grilling. Easier to layer out and spread around to get more even heat. A huge disadvantage of the large vs the Xl is the large has very little even temperatures, direct grilling surface compared to the XL. Large has plenty of indirect smoking capacity for me though.

jtcBoynton · January 2016

stlcharcoal said:

...
As far as the rocks and other extraneous material, when it's covered in charcoal dust, it can look just like a chunk of charcoal.

...

Even when not covered by charcoal dust, it can sometimes look like charcoal. The rock in the pic is as black as coal - good MO rock of some kind. Can't imagine how it was missed!

It weighed in at 1 pound 3.2 ounces.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/5b/idytqdk34e4y.jpg

ryantt · January 2016

@stlcharcoal is a real class act and a great member of this BGE community. I've had the pleasure of talking with him a few times about different products and he's been gracious enough to take his time to answer all of my questions.

Now about his charcoal, it's a good product, and when there were a few complaints on here about shipments from Firecraft, he was on it. The unfortunate part was Firecraft had not heard any thing about it (if I recall correctly). He's always proactive in addressing concerns and taking care of this community, mostly I assume because he's passionate about the hobby and business.

Jeepster47 · January 2016

blind99 said:

Jeepster47 said:

... Lump is made from lumber mill discards. Making it from the complete log would be prohibitively expensive. Thus, you'll see board-like cut offs from squaring up the logs ... and smaller branches, cut-off ends, etc..

I'm pretty sure the folks who make fogo don't use lumber mill discard. I think they just clear cut some more forest and make charcoal with it! I've gotten some ridiculous large stuff in those bags

You're correct ... should have said "Stateside lump is made from ..." Or, "Lump made Stateside in an ecologically friendly manner ..."

YukonRon · January 2016

The use of x rays on charcoal, then using it to burn as a fuel source for cooking food, leads to the residual effect of stupidity and impotence after consuming food that uses x rayed lump.
Using Rockwood shows I am smart, and the other "thing", well I had to look up the meaning, because I had no idea what impotence is, being the mondo, virile man I am, using a BGE.
Just sayin' for all that read this, there are a lot of stupid folks on here that have nothing better to do than bi+ch about stuff found in lump charcoal. I like to joke about it, but it never will keep me from using something that works.
I am thinking they must be mad because their x rayed bags of lump had some foreign pieces in it.
Since I am smart and I am not impotent, well, I have found other things to do.
I have no desire for x rayed lump charcoal. I have seen what it has done to so many others on here.
Mr. Heslop, keep doing, what you are doing. A quality product at a reasonable price point delivering outstanding and consistent results.

stlcharcoal · January 2016

jak7028 said:

Stlcharcoal - thanks for chiming in and offering your knowledge. Someone else mention densities of woods also, sounds like maybe my bag was a soft or less dense wood so it burned quicker.

i know when troubleshooting, eliminate as many variables as you can to identify what caused the problem. Changing the charcoal was the only thing I did different I can identify. It was puzzling because rockwood has such a good reputation.

Initially, I thought outside air temp......but you're in TX so it's not an issue. I ran out last week after about 16-18 hrs @ 225F which was way short of the normal 24+ hrs I get out of it. It was high of 25F and the wind was blowing up to 30MPH--the Flameboss was working overtime. I was actually surprised it lasted that long in those conditions.

Back to you though......Did you fill to the top of the firebox or the additional few inches to the top of the fire ring?? If you were only are the top of the firebox, 7 hrs still seems short, but it's not unbelievable. If it was to the top of the firering, which is 10#+ lbs of charcoal, that's puzzling how it would have burned in less than 12 hrs at <250F--that should go 18 hrs easy in moderate temps. Was this all new lump, or was any partially burned??

One other note......whatever lump you use, most will agree an aftermarket firegrate is the best cure to and low & slow problems. Any of them will work, or make your own. Single best, and cheapest BGE upgrade.

jak7028 · January 2016

1) outside temp was lower than normal, low was still around 40 degrees. Wind was gusting, but BGE was protected from the wind.

2) Filled to the top of the fire bowl, not all the way to the top of the fire ring. (That is the normal line I fill it to and get up to 16 hour cooks with about 1/3 lump going unused)

3) All new lump. I take the bowl and everything out. Completely clean out the bottom and unplug air holes. Re-assemble, then hand pick pieces of lump to fill the bowl instead of just dumping it in. There were about 8 fist size chunk of applewood added to the lump.

4) Fire was lit for about 18 hours total. Averaged 230-240 temp range, except when I ran out of lump in the middle and the temp dropped. At the end of 18 hours, even the batch of lump I added was almost completely gone.

5) I am using the original firegrate. Will have to look into that upgrade. I am assuming something that helps with airflow???

I mentioned above the vent was open a lot more. Typically, for a low and slow cook at 250, once the BGE temp is stabilized, I have the daisy wheel vents barely cracked open and the bottom vent open about 1/4" or slightly less. For this cook, I had the daisy wheel vents about half open, but the bottom vent was open at least a full inch to 1.5". That was to maintain temps in the 230-240 range.

The only thing I could think of was the small pieces of lump were restricting airflow so it needed more air then usual. I would think this should not of consumed the lump at a faster rate though, because it still burned at a low temperature.

Ozzie_Isaac · January 2016

@jak7028 If you get 16hrs with just the firebowl then keep using what you have been using.

jak7028 · January 2016

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@jak7028 If you get 16hrs with just the firebowl then keep using what you have been using.

This was my first two bags of Rockwood. Heard a lot of good things about them, so I wanted to try them. It is small sample size, especially since I only did one low and slow cook out of the two bags. Running out in the middle of the cook just had me puzzled. I will try them again just out of curiosity. Also, I like to do business with someone like STLCharcoal that cares enough to troubleshoot and help us out. He doesn't have to post on here.

By no means was I trying to bash Rockwood, this site is a great network of people and knowledge. I was hoping to maybe figure out if I did something wrong. As you can tell from my post, I pay attention to detail and have systems that work for me (they come from a combination of this board and trial and error). Always looking for ways to improve though.

YukonRon · January 2016

And the congregation said "Amen"

DMW · January 2016

YukonRon said:

And the congregation said "Amen"

buurrrpp

YukonRon · January 2016

DMW said:

YukonRon said:

And the congregation said "Amen"

buurrrpp

That counts.

caliking · January 2016

stlcharcoal said:

Mayberry said:

I know a lot of people Love Rockwood, but I had very poor results with it. Not necessarily with the size of the pieces, but there were way too many impurities in the bags. I found large rocks, pieces of insulation, chunks of metal, and even a large railroad tie spike that was easily a two or 3 pound piece of metal. Took a chunk out of my egg when it dumped into the firebox. I contacted the owner, and at first he seemed reasonable. However, he quickly turned to it being more my fault and unreasonable expectations, as if all lump has these things in them. Nothing was offered....especially a sincere apology, so I use other brands now. I've found Nature Glo very consistent. Also, Wicked Good Weekend Warrior has been great for low and slow cooks. They dropped off in quality for a while, but have gotten very good again.

...

3 - You told me you felt you may have damaged your firebox when you "stirred your lump" and the railroad spike "slammed into the sides" as you stirred.....NOT when you dumped it in your Egg. Then you took it a step further of stating there were "health effects of burning metal below your food".

...

Like from the CI grate in the bottom of the egg, the ss grid, or CI grates? What's a railroad spike made of that's so bad? Chromium? Mercury? Some other bad sh!t?

I'm about to complain about every pebble I've found in a bag. I better make some room, because I'm about to get a pallet or two of Rockwood FREE!

FWIW, I'm saving every pebble I've ever found in any bag of lump. After 5 years, I will send it all to the Himalayas, to be used for breeding purposes.

FarmerTom · January 2016

caliking said:

.......FWIW, I'm saving every pebble I've ever found in any bag of lump. After 5 years, I will send it all to the Himalayas, to be used for breeding purposes.

And all this time, I thought the Himalayas were formed by plate tectonics. Now I find it's those damn monks breeding our lump rocks.

Jeepster47 · January 2016

caliking said:

... I'm saving every pebble I've ever found in any bag of lump. After 5 years, I will send it all to the Himalayas, to be used for breeding purposes.

@caliking ... please don't do that. Most of those in a Rockwood bag are free range rocks. They ran away from home during the last ice age. Please consider returning them to their home state of Minnesota where their "stick in the mud" ancestors still reside. Or, at least, like me, place them in a rock graveyard ... a rock garden is such a peaceful place to sit and contemplate.

Mayberry · January 2016

stlcharcoal said:
I have no idea how your story has morphed into this after almost a year.
Looking back at your multiple emails.....
1 - You never mentioned insulation, that is new and wouldn't have come from us as there is no insulation used at the plant. I still have the pictures you sent--no insulation.
2 - The railroad spike pictured was as long as daisy wheel as pictured, 6 inches. That size spike weighs about 0.8#, not 2-3#.

3 - You told me you felt you may have damaged your firebox when you "stirred your lump" and the railroad spike "slammed into the sides" as you stirred.....NOT when you dumped it in your Egg. Then you took it a step further of stating there were "health effects of burning metal below your food".
4 - I apologized several times, you refused to accept it demanded "resolution". I have no idea what you wanted, but if you would have asked for it, I would have considered it.
5 - I offered you a refund and/or replacement bags and you refused to take it "since a majority of the charcoal was good." I had given you two FREE replacement bags 6 months earlier when you complained about rocks in ONE bag.
And I still stand by my position that all lump is subject to some foreign material in the bag. Depending on what country it is from (thus how it is manufactured), is what's going to be in the bag. Domestic--anything that has ever gotten hammered, shot, or attached to a tree (e.g. nails, bullets, barb wire, etc.) There's a chance for insulation will steel kilns, chance for concrete with concrete kilns, always a chance for metal banding due to how the wood is held together during loading, and always a chance for rocks. The guys do their best to get all this stuff out and we still load every bag with 20.4#-20.6# to account for any foreign material. In a case where this process fails, we offer a refund or a replacement bag(s).

I had no intention of attacking your character. I was just stating my thoughts on your product. The first time, you replaced bags. When I contacted you again, months later, it was more of a customer concern, as you'd been so helpful the first time. The second time, you seemed much more defensive, and at a loss for what to do and replied with a comment that you didn't know what would make me happy. For the record, though, I didn't decline a refund...I declined replacement bags. Maybe I misinterpreted your response....that can happen by email. You offered, from memory, to refund all the bags I had bought, which was 20 bags. I stated that was ridiculous and that's what I declined. The resolution stopped there. Again, two people trying to have a discussion by email sometimes just goes awry. I meant no personal attack on you above. I just found the product inconsistent. I wasn't demanding anything from you. I even declined a 2nd replacement.

stlcharcoal · January 2016

Mayberry said:

I had no intention of attacking your character. I was just stating my thoughts on your product. The first time, you replaced bags. When I contacted you again, months later, it was more of a customer concern, as you'd been so helpful the first time. The second time, you seemed much more defensive, and at a loss for what to do and replied with a comment that you didn't know what would make me happy. For the record, though, I didn't decline a refund...I declined replacement bags. Maybe I misinterpreted your response....that can happen by email. You offered, from memory, to refund all the bags I had bought, which was 20 bags. I stated that was ridiculous and that's what I declined. The resolution stopped there. Again, two people trying to have a discussion by email sometimes just goes awry. I meant no personal attack on you above. I just found the product inconsistent. I wasn't demanding anything from you. I even declined a 2nd replacement.

3/3/15 lengthy response from me contained: "All I can do is offer you any money back you have ever spent on Rockwood..."

and a few emails later:

3/4/15 final response from me: "No reason to dispose of the bags, take them back to Ace for a full refund......even the ones I bought for you. If you lost the receipt, have them contact me, and I'll settle up with them directly."

I'm still at a loss as what you wanted--what else can I do besides replace the bags or give you your money back? In fact ALL of your money back....even on bags that I bought you. I thought I was being pretty generous but obviously I'm missing something.

jak7028 · January 2016

STLCharcoal - I went ahead and ordered another bag this morning. I also ordered a looftlighter since I had been wanting one anyway. No rush, but do you have any idea how long the lighters are backordered?

stlcharcoal · January 2016

jak7028 said:

STLCharcoal - I went ahead and ordered another bag this morning. I also ordered a looftlighter since I had been wanting one anyway. No rush, but do you have any idea how long the lighters are backordered?

Oh, I assumed you were getting it through Ace since you're in TX. Firecraft will still be on the same truckload as your last order so there's a possibility that this could confirm/deny suspicions. If you really want to get scientific, call over to your nearest Ace Hardware and order 8400772.....they'll have it in stock in a few days. Looks like your nearest store is 25+ miles away in Port Lavaca though.

jak7028 · January 2016

I like the idea of trying the same truckload just to see what happens. Good to know Port Lavaca has it, I am there at least once a week so I can pick some up there in the future.

Might help eliminate the other concern of a shipping company tossing around and breaking the single bag I ordered. Getting shipped on a whole pallet to ACE could help. Hopefully they don't toss it around too much when they get it.

Your statement on a batch not being bad is dead on. I deal with coatings and people have a hard time comprehending when 10,000 gallons are made at once, and their single gallon is the only one of 10,000 that had a problem. It is usually not the product. I know I didn't have the one magic bag of Rockwood that decided on its not to work.

stlcharcoal · January 2016

jak7028 said:

I like the idea of trying the same truckload just to see what happens. Good to know Port Lavaca has it, I am there at least once a week so I can pick some up there in the future.

Might help eliminate the other concern of a shipping company tossing around and breaking the single bag I ordered. Getting shipped on a whole pallet to ACE could help. Hopefully they don't toss it around too much when they get it.

Your statement on a batch not being bad is dead on. I deal with coatings and people have a hard time comprehending when 10,000 gallons are made at once, and their single gallon is the only one of 10,000 that had a problem. It is usually not the product. I know I didn't have the one magic bag of Rockwood that decided on its not to work.

Per my reports, that store doesn't have it in stock, nor have they ever sold it, so call at least 5 business days in advance to be sure.

Unlike mixing a liquid up, the difference in a single kiln can be kind of funny because of the way the fire moves around. Anyone that has ever done a low and slow on a XL BGE will know what I mean when they look in the firebox afterward......the fire has a mind of its own and snakes around. There will be some undercarbonized spots throughout plus there will be some piles of ash where there was an air leak and the fire got roaring. But after the loaders scoop it all out, dump it out in multiple pile for cooling, scoop it back up again, dump it in the hopper for screening, it usually gets mixed up pretty good--but it's possible that one scoop could stay together just because of odds. Still doesn't change anything because if it was over 80-85% carbon, it would just break apart and fall through the screens. Same goes if it was a scoop entirely of something light like cherry that stayed together--it wouldn't weight 20# or would overflow the bag. This still has me wondering what the hell is going on. Probably the perfect storm of a lot of stuff that just happened......WTF the odds had to line up in favor of this rather than the powerball though??!?!?!

jak7028 · January 2016

I have an out of state conference next week, so it will be a few weeks before I get to use the BGE again. I will post how the next cook goes with the new bag I get in. I will intentionally use small pieces and go through the same process to keep as many constants as I can. I think you are right though, whatever it was, it lined up perfect and affected the cook. This next cook should be fine.

I am just a nerd when it comes to troubleshooting. I like to figure things out and it bother me when I can't.

Thanks again for your input.

stlcharcoal · January 2016

jak7028 said:

I am just a nerd when it comes to troubleshooting. I like to figure things out and it bother me when I can't.

Same here......come on over and help me figure out what's going on with my geothermal system. Been fighting that damn thing for years now. Tired of paying for service calls and replacement parts that do nothing.

Mosca · January 2016

@stlcharcoal, I don't use your product, but based on your responsiveness and availability to your customers, I would definitely use it if it were easily available here in NE PA. I like your style.

(I use Wegman's store brand, because I can get it 24/7/365 and I know how it behaves in my Egg.)

THEBuckeye · January 2016

@Mayberry @stlcharcoal , get a room

northGAcock · January 2016

Maybe its just me....but I find other things to yank my chain...than to be impacted by a few pieces of debris in my lump. Not a battle I would choose.....and if I were to make a change, I don't see the need to drag a company through the mud and hold on to that anger for a year. Here is where I stand.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/pa/hb9o3xngoyuu.jpg

Almost crisis mode.

lousubcap · January 2016

@Mosca- Firecraft (located in PA) carries Rockwood and ships free with >$99 orders. You may be close enough to call in an order and pick it up if you are so inclined. FWIW-

Mosca · January 2016

lousubcap said:

@Mosca- Firecraft (located in PA) carries Rockwood and ships free with >$99 orders. You may be close enough to call in an order and pick it up if you are so inclined. FWIW-

Thanks, @lousubcap. I Might take advantage of that.

Mayberry · January 2016

northGAcock said:

Maybe its just me....but I find other things to yank my chain...than to be impacted by a few pieces of debris in my lump. Not a battle I would choose.....and if I were to make a change, I don't see the need to drag a company through the mud and hold on to that anger for a year. Here is where I stand.
Almost crisis mode.

No anger here, and wasn't trying to drag anyone's name through the mud. I just had a bad experience and passed along my thoughts. Same can be said for every company, I'm sure. Definitely don't want to get into a back and forth on a message board...especially over pre-burned wood.

Question for Rockwood users

Comments

Categories