First Pizza Problems

kwdickert · January 2016

After getting the AR with the 13" pizza stone, I decided to venture into the world of egged pizzas.

For some reason, I thought I had a 16" pizza stone so i went to a local take and bake and got a 16" pizza to go. Their instructions were 425F for 18-20 minutes. I asked if I could do it at a higher temp for less time and the teenager behind the counter looked at me crazy.

I decided to follow their instructions after resizing the pizza to the stone, warming the egg to 425F for 40 min, and i cooked the pizza for 20 min.

Results:
The pizza had a STRONG grill taste. I wonder if I should've cleaned out the egg first or if it was due to 20 minutes on the egg versus like 10.

The pizza was done on the top but the dough was still soft on the bottom. I attribute this to the stone not gettting has hot as the grill. I preheated the grill to 425 and that took 40 min but I think the grill was only at 425 at the 40th minute so maybe that is why.

I over cornmealed the stone as I added the pizza to it because i was worried about it sticking. It ended up altering the flavor of the crust too much. Next time i'll forego the corn meal and do parchment paper. I think that also stopped the crust from finishing nicely.

Lots to change on pizza #2. I actually didn't care for the pizza maker's pizza after all so i'll end up doing them by hand myself going forward and learning from the results above.

onionlips · January 2016

From one Eggzza rookie to another ... get the dome temp up and make smaller pies.

I had my first go at Pizza just a couple nights ago. I used the AR and two stones. One on lowest rack "as platesetter" and one on the extender rack for the pie. We made 10 pies experimenting a bit and noticed a dramatic improvement when the dome temp was up around 550. At one point we pushed 600+ and the toppings got a bit toasty. I used light layer of cornmeal only on the paddle not directly on the hot stone.

Good luck!

Carolina Q · January 2016

Nothing wrong with cornmeal (though semolina is better), but it does not belong on the stone. It's purpose is to prevent the pie from sticking to the peel. A pizza won't stick to a preheated stone. All I ever use is a small pinch of semolina on the peel. I assemble the pie on the peel and shake it after adding each ingredient. Never a problem.

I am definitely not a fan of parchment. Ugh!

itsmce · January 2016

When I fix pizzas in my oven, I load them up. When I fix pizzas on my BGE, the toppings are much more sparse. Thin crust and top with goodies sparingly would be my advice.

jtcBoynton · January 2016

"The pizza was done on the top but the dough was still soft on the bottom. I attribute this to the stone not gettting has hot as the grill. I preheated the grill to 425 and that took 40 min but I think the grill was only at 425 at the 40th minute so maybe that is why. " -- You effectively preheated your pizza stone for about one minute. Yes, your stone was not up to temp. Let your stone preheat for 45-60 minutes, after the egg is up to temp.

"I over cornmealed the stone as I added the pizza to it because i was worried about it sticking." Never put cornmeal on the stone!!!!!!!! Use cornmeal (or semolina or parchment or flour) as a lubricant to allow the dough to slide off the peel. Only use as much as needed to allow the dough to slide. Yes cornmeal will alter the flavor profile of the crust - which is why some of use will not use it - semolina is my choice. It did not though affect the crust from finishing the way you wanted - that was stone temp. When the dough hits the pizza stone it will stick and cannot be moved (be careful with your aim at launch). It will release as it cooks.

chadpsualum · January 2016

kwdickert said:

Results:
The pizza had a STRONG grill taste. I wonder if I should've cleaned out the egg first or if it was due to 20 minutes on the egg versus like 10.

I've heard this from a few people. What's the consensus on this? Does the Egg need a burnout prior to pizza? Appreciate the insight.

pgprescott · January 2016

if you have cooked a bunch of chicken or pork butts, the egg and the leftover coal can get a bunch of fat drippings on it. this will burn with a bad tasting smoke.
As far as doneness, the more toppings you load on the pizza, the lower i would go with the temp in order to get everything done equally. 425 is pretty darn low though, that is a little lower than i would shoot for especially if that's the temp prior to putting the product on the stone. I would shoot for 550-750 depending on the type of crust and the volume of toppings. I'm not an expert in the pizza dough area by any means, but the amount of sugar content, i believe, has much to do with the temp required for perfection. keep at it, it's worth it!

kwdickert · January 2016

ive done a lot of boston butts and chicken before this but mostly with a drip pan. Next time, to be sure, i'll clean it all out and i'll bump temp to 550 and preheat everything for a lot longer and i'll use cornmeal ONLY on the peel.

YukonRon · January 2016

I just use the plate setter, legs up pizza stone raised with fire bricks, some and stone around 600F, x 8-10 mins. Transfer from peel to stone with cornmeal. My Beautiful Wife makes a killer pizza dough that is thin and crispy, Neopolitan style crust.

kwdickert · January 2016

open to super easy first timer dough recipes as well.

westernbbq · January 2016

The grill taste is probably the result of leftover meat and fat remnants combined with a truncated heatup time. 40 minutes preheat seems like too short a time because that time is probably not enough to have coals fully ignited and intial residue wasnt given enough time to burn off. On pizza cooks i always preheat for a minimum of 1 hour, sometimes 2. I use mesquite trimmings off my tree as mesquite burns hotter than anything ive ever tried. And it takes a long time 2 plus hrs to burn off residue in the wood. Once that happens, i get a 650+ F egg for at least three hours, plenty of time to make pizza all nite

jtcBoynton · January 2016

kwdickert said:

ive done a lot of boston butts and chicken before this but mostly with a drip pan. Next time, to be sure, i'll clean it all out and i'll bump temp to 550 and preheat everything for a lot longer and i'll use cornmeal ONLY on the peel.

Try to find some semolina to use instead of the cornmeal. It is a wheat product so it will not alter the taste profile of your pizza crust like cornmeal will. A little will go a long way and it will keep for a long time if kept in a sealed container.

geoff7877 · January 2016

Pizza takes practice. The common denominator here for it being undercooked and tasting like a bbq is that it wasn't screaming hot. I fire mine up and let the temp build for about an hour. You want temps over 550. The pizza will suck up that smoke/bbq flavor if the temp is too low and it will cook uneven. It should hot enough and burn long enough so you really can't see smoke coming out of the top. Oh, and pizza stone in as soon as the fire is going so it's the same temp as everything else. I use A LOT of lump or wood when I'm making pizza. Keep in mind the ideal temps for a pizza joint brick oven is over 700 degrees.

I would also also try your hand at making your own dough or buying some pizza dough. NOT pillsbury dough. Pizza places with sell you dough but I love making my own.

Beavercreek_Smoker · January 2016

Great advice here. I've had a few pizza fails before finding what works for me. I've done pizzas anywhere from 400-650 degrees. Preheat stone starts when egg gets to temp, not as its warming as you found out.

I do home made pies, never tried a take and bake. I've tried 00 flour and standard AP flour. I've tried corn meal, flour and parchment on the peel. Heavy on the toppings and light on the toppings. I've tried making the dough a few days in advance and making the dough and proofing it while the egg heats up.

Heres what works best for me for what it's worth. If I plan well, I'll make dough a few days in advance and rise in the fridge. Take it out to bring to room temp about 2 hours before making pie, really does add flavor to the crust. I find AP flour is just as good for my crusts. I use 2 or 3 table spoons of eveo in the dough. I feel it gives it more crunch. If I don't plan well I make dough and set it aside to proof and go light my egg. Once the starter cube goes out I put in the plate setter legs up (I'm now using an AR setup) and put grid on. I set a few fire bricks on the grate and ser my pizza stone on the bricks to rais it higher in the dome. It takes around 45 minutes to get to temp. I adjust vents to hold that temp for around another 45 min.

My temp seems to be in the 500-550 range and using a sticky dough. I make my pie on parchment covered wood peel, trim it around pie leaving a tab to grab onto it. I sauce it good and add cheese. I put a little more than I should but I love my cheese. I then add the other toppings of choice, but not to heavy, light actually.

I slide the pie on the stone with the parchment tab towards the front of the egg. Close the lid and set timer for 2min. That's when I pull the parchment from undernieth the pie. I check it at the 8 min total time and give it a 180 degree spin. It cooks between 10-12 min for me at said temps (I like golden cheese without burnt crust).

I keep my my wood peel and a spatula at the egg to help me move the pie around.

Heres the best part of learning to make the perfect pizza, eating all the not so perfect pizzas!

Ive made 2 pies that were embarrassing but all the others were good to great. 20 or more. Enjoy the tasty learning curve.

Btw, try making your own crust, really easy. One ov my failures was adding too much salt (flat crust) and burning was my second. One minute can take you from starting to look done to over done.

Learn to to stretch your dough, not roll it, makes a very airy dough, that's a good thing.

Try new things till you hit the perfect pie. Then keep trying different things ti keep things fresh.

kwdickert · March 2017

Update:

NO SMOKY TASTE. This was fixed shortly after my original post. Once the grill has been burning for an hour, warming up the stone, it's burned off all the gunk.

I bought some dough from a pizzeria in town and made three pizzas.

I put in a stone on spider rig, then i put my pizza stone on top of my AR (note, two stones act like the plate setter + pizza stone), and i use parchment paper. After an hour since lighting, and the top stone reading 686 in the middle, i launched the first pie. This thing is pretty high up in the dome. In 7 minutes, the bottom was black and the top was 2/3 cooked.

I decided to shutter the grill down to where the stone read 550. (Note, both times, i left my smokeware cap shut so it would reflect the head downward onto the toppings, maybe this was a mistake.) This pie cooked much better but took 12 minutes. The only problem now was that it was pretty stiff on the bottom but not burnt, way more of a cracker crust than i wanted. My friend convinced me to roll it out rather than toss the dough so maybe that contributed to the hardness of the crust?

I've had better luck it seems with my own dough. I was waiting for the browning of cheese but it seemingly didn't happen after 18 minutes at 450 on the third pie. These pizzas were made using 50:50 ratio of mozz/mild cheddar. Tasted good but never browned so I let it keep cooking.

Ideas on how to improve?

With my stone in the bottom and my stone on the top, should I add firebricks in the middle? is there too much space between my top stone and bottom stone? Should I put the smokeware cap on when i launch my pizza to try and brown toppings?

EggMcMic · March 2017

As far as dough goes I am a fan of the 72 hour dough from baking steel. Google it and you can find a video and recipe on the website. I cook it at 550-600 and it works well for me. It requires a little planning but I usually make a double batch and then freeze what I am not using and it works well 3-4 weeks later.

I haven't had the smokey taste issues but I have always started with fresh lump for a pizza cook. If I cook a butt today then when I pull it off I will open the vents and burn off the remaining coal. Not a true burn out, but it gets up to 500+ and burns the grease out.

buzd504 · March 2017

If you are putting the smokeware cap on after you bring the egg to temperature, you are probably snuffing your fire and that's giving a smoldering taste to your pizza (not to mention losing temperature).

Don't put the cap on. You will get reflective heat from the ceramics of the dome. You need the cap off to maintain airflow and temp.

Otherwise, your set up sounds similar to mine and I've been very happy with the results.

kwdickert · March 2017

Smoky taste was fixed a year ago with proper warm up of grill burning it all off. See other questions please.

northGAcock · March 2017

Patience is golden on the ol pizza cook. Really, it took me about 10 of them before I got it figured out. When I moved to making my own dough using 00 Flour....is when it really started to come together. That and a hot stone was the right combo for me. I may be a slow learner, but once I did....there ain't nothing better in my opinion. Keep playing with it and don't get discouraged.

This discussion is going to drive me to making one soon. Wif and I have been on the weight loss program....but i see a vegie za in the near future. I will make with a mix of part skim and no-fat Mozz. It want be as good....but it will still be great.

jtcBoynton · March 2017

kwdickert said:

Update:

...

I put in a stone on spider rig, then i put my pizza stone on top of my AR (note, two stones act like the plate setter + pizza stone), and i use parchment paper. After an hour since lighting, and the top stone reading 686 in the middle, i launched the first pie. This thing is pretty high up in the dome. In 7 minutes, the bottom was black and the top was 2/3 cooked. -- What was the reading of the ceramic above the pizza? Was it throughly heated? Remember the radiant heat coming off the egg top is important to cooking the toppings of your pizza. Seven minutes at 700º is longer than you should expect, so the burning is normal for that time/temp. Make sure you have not overloaded with toppings when cooking at high temps.

I decided to shutter the grill down to where the stone read 550. (Note, both times, i left my smokeware cap shut so it would reflect the head downward onto the toppings, maybe this was a mistake. -- yes it was) This pie cooked much better but took 12 minutes. The only problem now was that it was pretty stiff on the bottom but not burnt, way more of a cracker crust than i wanted. My friend convinced me to roll it out rather than toss the dough so maybe that contributed to the hardness of the crust? -- rolling out dough undoes all the air bubble formation you carefully developed during the dough rise. Dough that is tossed is also not usually the best. Best dough is stretched, not rolled or tossed. The air bubbles are important to get the oven rise in the dough - unless you like cardboard crust.

I've had better luck it seems with my own dough. I was waiting for the browning of cheese but it seemingly didn't happen after 18 minutes at 450 on the third pie. These pizzas were made using 50:50 ratio of mozz/mild cheddar. Tasted good but never browned so I let it keep cooking.

Ideas on how to improve? -- You should focus on getting a good combination of dough recipe/dough thickness/cooking temp/cooking time. Once you have that move the stone up or down to adjust for topping cooking.

With my stone in the bottom and my stone on the top, should I add firebricks in the middle? -- NO is there too much space between my top stone and bottom stone? -- NO Should I put the smokeware cap on when i launch my pizza to try and brown toppings? -- NO browning is done primarily by radiant heat coming off the ceramic. Keep the cap off to keep the fire at the set temp you are using. Move the cooking stone higher if you need more browning of the toppings.

All pizza doughs are designed for an optimum cooking temp. You should try to match a dough recipe with the temp you plan to cook at.

The key is to get the stone close enough to the dome to get the right amount of radiant heat coming off the dome. If the stone is too far from the dome, the toppings will not be done by the time the dough is cooked. If the stone is too close to the dome, the toppings will burn by the time the dough is cooked. The proper height will depend on the dough recipe, cooking temp, dough thickness, and amount of toppings. Many find the sweet spot to have the stone 2-3" above the felt line - but remember you will need to dial it in for yourself. We all make our pizzas a little different so take all the advice as a starting point and make adjustments for your personal style.

THEBuckeye · March 2017

The good news is get to try again!

But, since there was not a single photo, your next attempt will be your first - assuming you post a photo

THEBuckeye · March 2017

I put the stone on the grate with the grate raised to the gasket line with a PSWoo2.

I bake at 450-500 for about 8-10 minutes and the size is pretty much the size of the BGE stone.

JMCXL · March 2017

The pizza journey is the best. When you finally reach the end ( a perfect pizza) you and your family will want more and more and more. Plus all the cooks along the way make for great meals. My 17 yr old says my pizza is the best think I cook on the egg.
we love putting goat cheese on.
I also have a white BBQ sauce ( mayo base) that makes the crust unbelievable
enjoy the journey and the mistakes

kwdickert · March 2017

jtcBoynton said:

kwdickert said:

Update:

...

I put in a stone on spider rig, then i put my pizza stone on top of my AR (note, two stones act like the plate setter + pizza stone), and i use parchment paper. After an hour since lighting, and the top stone reading 686 in the middle, i launched the first pie. This thing is pretty high up in the dome. In 7 minutes, the bottom was black and the top was 2/3 cooked. -- What was the reading of the ceramic above the pizza? Was it throughly heated? Remember the radiant heat coming off the egg top is important to cooking the toppings of your pizza. Seven minutes at 700º is longer than you should expect, so the burning is normal for that time/temp. Make sure you have not overloaded with toppings when cooking at high temps.

I decided to shutter the grill down to where the stone read 550. (Note, both times, i left my smokeware cap shut so it would reflect the head downward onto the toppings, maybe this was a mistake. -- yes it was) This pie cooked much better but took 12 minutes. The only problem now was that it was pretty stiff on the bottom but not burnt, way more of a cracker crust than i wanted. My friend convinced me to roll it out rather than toss the dough so maybe that contributed to the hardness of the crust? -- rolling out dough undoes all the air bubble formation you carefully developed during the dough rise. Dough that is tossed is also not usually the best. Best dough is stretched, not rolled or tossed. The air bubbles are important to get the oven rise in the dough - unless you like cardboard crust.

I've had better luck it seems with my own dough. I was waiting for the browning of cheese but it seemingly didn't happen after 18 minutes at 450 on the third pie. These pizzas were made using 50:50 ratio of mozz/mild cheddar. Tasted good but never browned so I let it keep cooking.

Ideas on how to improve? -- You should focus on getting a good combination of dough recipe/dough thickness/cooking temp/cooking time. Once you have that move the stone up or down to adjust for topping cooking.

With my stone in the bottom and my stone on the top, should I add firebricks in the middle? -- NO is there too much space between my top stone and bottom stone? -- NO Should I put the smokeware cap on when i launch my pizza to try and brown toppings? -- NO browning is done primarily by radiant heat coming off the ceramic. Keep the cap off to keep the fire at the set temp you are using. Move the cooking stone higher if you need more browning of the toppings.

All pizza doughs are designed for an optimum cooking temp. You should try to match a dough recipe with the temp you plan to cook at.
The key is to get the stone close enough to the dome to get the right amount of radiant heat coming off the dome. If the stone is too far from the dome, the toppings will not be done by the time the dough is cooked. If the stone is too close to the dome, the toppings will burn by the time the dough is cooked. The proper height will depend on the dough recipe, cooking temp, dough thickness, and amount of toppings. Many find the sweet spot to have the stone 2-3" above the felt line - but remember you will need to dial it in for yourself. We all make our pizzas a little different so take all the advice as a starting point and make adjustments for your personal style.

Wow. This is an awesome answer. Thank you.

kwdickert · March 2017

Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dWQqR5CyC029X57w0AzL2QNAT-V4Eojlc8SnecqCWU6rAHyMnPXn87eri8rtCxd6NlSeqWHjjrsfvcvkpSPmJcx2W6nZCCdnns5rjY1lDMknSwO3HlgW4GtavzktmqHpOY-st9YAW-FTTWv-x68soAIbgV97ZC7-TJwRPwfni-jNyNhIz-FAgAiBskvhV_tq49etLwvToSesuHdS7GgcytJN03UbV-YTeaocgBA9bH_3d-YypJt3OloSV06batx8fZpwnY8i6-HT7uVfrHVJLZ9uL8H6t3NWy_HPKRLUJgpkSvGVMjWRKWFIbyLB_lMpHkbf3IVu2aDMW_E4AtuGab9qv0FtKntULtoRJkJEngguHfN7xDZFugQL4EoSXUteSujgk7Hbaof83ZtDHfv6sn2AkP45TYesQSA32ljyL9OuEsH5kFRHPo1f3VKnS7tSHq9UOA0qNeQ5Jxq980HJLzFea66xBiuCwOis162B20OwlXfn_i9JP9Cp4SgSh1OvNNv_-uLllm2atlKWtgpwnpDh5DrLktC3erXD7dXsDdcuJe6tEd3FRhaW8JN_UC-iJSGCc7owWEm7aLQpAJ2dPAeTWyYYlA_CMqNyvmDvjcYzQ4aWMtkM=w310-h413-no

here's the setup. If you look closely, you can see the small stone in the bottom. Then the big stone is on the highest rung of my AR. Should be 3" or maybe 4 above the lip.

kwdickert · March 2017

Not wanting to leave my failures alone, I gave it another go with Whole Foods dough last night. What a difference. Stretched great after sitting out for an hour. Turned out great.

kwdickert · March 2017

fishlessman · March 2017

425 for me is pan pizza and or deep dish. with the thicker crust and lower temps i will par cook the crust, add toppings and continue the cook. this was in a paella pan

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First Pizza Problems

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