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Brine vs No Brine - Butt to Butt Taste Test

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blasting
blasting Posts: 6,262
in EggHead Forum
I'm doing an experiment, so thought I'd post in case others shared my curiosity.

Many will have seen @YukonRon 's thread about peach preserves and brining.  I decided to do a pair of butts, from the same package - the only variable will be one is brined and the other is not.  The brine is a simple solution of pickling salt and molasses, and the one butt will brine for 10-11 hrs.  Brining right now - cook begins in the AM.

The butts are from RD.  They are roughly equal in size totaling 17.29 lbs pre trim.  Both will be rubbed with peach preserves and then a combination rub will be applied to both butts (rub will be a mix yardbird with some swamp venom.)  I'd like to compare a couple different rubs side by side, but I'm going to limit all variables except the brine.  I'll be cooking with a target grate temp of 235, no foil.  I'll probe for buttah beginning at 203 IT.

Ron's original thread: http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1186544/bone-in-butt/p1
Phoenix 
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  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,989
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    blasting said:
    I'm doing an experiment, so thought I'd post in case others shared my curiosity.

    Many will have seen @YukonRon 's thread about peach preserves and brining.  I decided to do a pair of butts, from the same package - the only variable will be one is brined and the other is not.  The brine is a simple solution of pickling salt and molasses, and the one butt will brine for 10-11 hrs.  Brining right now - cook begins in the AM.

    The butts are from RD.  They are roughly equal in size totaling 17.29 lbs pre trim.  Both will be rubbed with peach preserves and then a combination rub will be applied to both butts (rub will be a mix yardbird with some swamp venom.)  I'd like to compare a couple different rubs side by side, but I'm going to limit all variables except the brine.  I'll be cooking with a target grate temp of 235, no foil.  I'll probe for buttah beginning at 203 IT.

    Ron's original thread: http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1186544/bone-in-butt/p1

    I am curious as to the results. My first brine was with the peach preserves. I had a few folks tell me brining is a waste of time. I am glad this is being done. 
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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  • BearQ
    BearQ Posts: 174
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    I go back & forth on the brine myself, usually due to time constraints. My 2nd last turkey was a little dry with no brine so the latest was brined for 2 days (I usually only brine for a day or so) it was very moist & juicy. Perhaps the longer brine was the key?
    i'm interested in your results - Thanks for posting.
    Barrie,Ont.,Canada.
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  • Lit
    Lit Posts: 9,053
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    Have never taken the time to brine a shoulder but I will never cook a turkey without brining it. Curious as well to see the results here.
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  • SciAggie
    SciAggie Posts: 6,481
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    Great idea. Thanks for taking the time to do the experiment and document the results. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
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  • bgebrent
    bgebrent Posts: 19,636
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    I'll be anxious to get your opinion of the results!  Been in the brine camp for several years using Alton Browns recipe. Great idea!
    Sandy Springs & Dawsonville Ga
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  • dstearn
    dstearn Posts: 1,702
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    I inject with Chris Liilys simple recipe, apple juice, salt, sugar, water and worchestershire sauce. No need to brine. 
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  • Davec433
    Davec433 Posts: 463
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    I was reading this article where the guy compared the brine or no brine with turkey and chicken breasts. So pretty much said the only thing your gaining is extra water when you brine it which takes away from the overall flavor. Also went on to say that rubbing it turned out just as good but this is with turkey and chicken breasts.

    http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/11/the-food-lab-the-truth-about-brining-turkey-thanksgiving.html
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  • rmercier
    rmercier Posts: 212
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    I have a turkey breast brining right now (4.5 lbs). 2/3 cup salt & 1/3 cup coconut sugar dissolved in water, chopped onion, bay leaves and apple slices.

    After brining, I will rub with pressed garlic and herbs and cook on Sunday...details on cook to come 
    LBGE in Northern VA
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  • bclarksicle
    bclarksicle Posts: 167
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    Started dry brining birds a few years back and haven't looked back. Much simpler and works great every time
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  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,349
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    As Davec mentioned above J. Kenji no longer wet brines just dry brines turkeys. I believe I read a while back that Alton Brown is leaning dry brine these days.

    So many store bought turkeys sold in your normal grocery store are already injected with a solution of "stuff" that I don't see why one would want to wet brine those anyway.

    I've read that poultry meat has a different cell structure than other meats - it's more sponge-like - and deals with marinades and the like "better" but I have no idea how wet brining a pork butt will prove better.

    Will be interesting to see how it all works out.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk




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  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,485
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    Anxious to hear the results, @Blasting; I love side-by-side experiment cooks.  
    _____________

    "Pro-Life" would be twenty students graduating from Sandy Hook next month  


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  • Thatgrimguy
    Thatgrimguy Posts: 4,729
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    I brine for comps. It definitely intensifies the flavors in the butt. I brine with pickling salt and molasses and inject with apple juice.
    XL, Small, Mini & Mini Max Green Egg, Shirley Fab Trailer, 6 gal and 2.5 gal Cajun Fryers, BlueStar 60" Range, 48" Lonestar Grillz Santa Maria, Alto Shaam 1200s, Gozney Dome, Gateway 55g Drum
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  • blasting
    blasting Posts: 6,262
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    Thanks for all the interest.  I'm at 163 IT, so it will be a few more hours.

    Smell is terrific, and weather is mild - chillin like a villain on the patio... 
    Phoenix 
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  • DoubleEgger
    DoubleEgger Posts: 17,186
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    Pics? 
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  • blasting
    blasting Posts: 6,262
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    DoubleEgger said:
    Pics? 

    I didn't think anyone really would be interested in the prep work.  Will have pics once finished though.  

    I think from now on I'm going to start my long cooks in the evening instead of the morning.  Never fails - the only days I sleep in are when I want to get something cooking early.
    Phoenix 
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  • Sea2Ski
    Sea2Ski Posts: 4,088
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    Standing by for the scientific findings and conclusions....  An opinion is also welcome :)

    --------------------------------------------------
    Burning lump in Downingtown, PA or diesel in Cape May, NJ.
    ....just look for the smoke!
    Large and MiniMax
    --------------------------------------------------

    Caliking said:   Meat in bung is my favorite. 
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  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,989
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    Where we at???
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,989
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    The suspense is killing me.
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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  • blukat
    blukat Posts: 354
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    What's the verdict.
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  • blasting
    blasting Posts: 6,262
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    Good morning.

    The first butt came off after 13 1/2 hours.  The brined butt took another 1 1/2 hours.  They both were FTC for several hours until the morning.

    In the pictures below the brined butt is on the left.  The butt on the right came out really good - I would say typical with no surprises.  The brined butt without question had a more pronounced flavor and was definitely juicer.  Is it an earth shattering difference - no.  However, I'm confident that in a blind taste test, everybody could tell a difference.

    Moving forward, I will be brining.  I recently picked up one of those Briner buckets, so brining is a quick process - other than sit time in the fridge.  I'm curious at some point try another head to head, comparing brining to injecting (Chris Lilly style).

    Side note:  The rub I used was a mixture of Swamp Venom, and Yardbird.  I did not care for the combination of the two.  The combination just doesn't taste right to me.







    Phoenix 
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  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,989
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    I may have missed it but how long did you brine?
    thank you for the information. I have become a fan of the brining process, I will continue with it as well.
    .Great  job, great cook. Thank you!
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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  • blasting
    blasting Posts: 6,262
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    YukonRon said:
     how long did you brine?

    It was in the brine solution for just over 11 hours.
    Phoenix 
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  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,989
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    Very good. I have been told 24-48 hours is ideal, I have not done any longer than my initial. I am going to try a 48 soon, just to see.
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
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  • bgebrent
    bgebrent Posts: 19,636
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    Great job!  I'll continue brining and start trying injecting too.
    Sandy Springs & Dawsonville Ga
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  • blasting
    blasting Posts: 6,262
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    YukonRon said:
    Very good. I have been told 24-48 hours is ideal, I have not done any longer than my initial. I am going to try a 48 soon, just to see.

    Ron, in my research it sounded like brining for that long starts to cure the meat and give a ham type taste - not nessesarily a bad thing.  I'm curious to hear your results.
    Phoenix 
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  • SciAggie
    SciAggie Posts: 6,481
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    @blasting Thanks for taking the time to document this experiment. It helps folks like me not have to reinvent the wheel. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
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  • Jeepster47
    Jeepster47 Posts: 3,827
    edited October 2015
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    @SciAggie said it well ... thanks for the info.  I love the side-by-side testing.  Almost think that's half the fun of cooking on the egg.

    Washington, IL  >  Queen Creek, AZ ... Two large eggs and an adopted Mini Max

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