Getting ready for my first deep dish. Anything to change?

bigguy136 · December 2012

I'm going to jump into the deep dish pie arena. I have a round pizza stone, oval stone and plate setter. I will be using Zippylip's recipe for the dough and a 12" CI pan. After the dough, fresh graded mozzarella, pulled pork, some sweet baby rays bbq sauce and more mozzarella. I will have my large BGE at 650.

Do I oil the pan before putting in dough?

I'm planning on using my plate setter, legs down and set the CI pan directly on the plate setter. Yes/ No?

Zippy's recipe says 6 minutes but others have said 20 minutes or until it looks and smells good. Yes/ No?

Lid open/ closed?

Change anything/ everything??

Sorry if this has been covered already.

Tjcoley · December 2012

Elevate off the plate setter using the little green feet or some other method (stacked pennies, washers, foil bals). Plate setter legs down, with raised pizza stone above plate setter Close the lid and check after 6 minutes. I cooked at 500 and took about 15 minutes. Let it go until the topping is done, and the crust should be fine. At 650 should finish sooner. It's a very good dough.

Zippylip · December 2012

bigguy136 said:

I'm going to jump into the deep dish pie arena. I have a round pizza stone, oval stone and plate setter. I will be using Zippylip's recipe for the dough and a 12" CI pan. After the dough, fresh graded mozzarella, pulled pork, some sweet baby rays bbq sauce and more mozzarella. I will have my large BGE at 650.
Do I oil the pan before putting in dough?
I'm planning on using my plate setter, legs down and set the CI pan directly on the plate setter. Yes/ No?
Zippy's recipe says 6 minutes but others have said 20 minutes or until it looks and smells good. Yes/ No?
Lid open/ closed?
Change anything/ everything??
Sorry if this has been covered already.

bigguy, first off I'm not sure which recipe you're using. I've seen some posts where people are using the cold rise version for deep dish which I don't recommend. That dough is much better suited to hot fast thin crust as it has more moisture. The increased moisture tends to turn the dough (when trapped between the cast iron and the cheese gasket) into a heavy cement like product. Stick with the other version of dough which is much faster to make & it'll come out better. Second, 650 is too high for deep dish, go at 400 or 450 at the highest and it will cook more evenly taking about 25 minutes. Third, put spacers (green egg feet work well) on the plate setter first then the cast iron ontop, that'll prevent burning the bottom of the crust. Fourth, yes, oil the pan and do so generously. Finally, close the lid.

bigguy136 · December 2012

bigguy136 said:

I'm going to jump into the deep dish pie arena. I have a round pizza stone, oval stone and plate setter. I will be using Zippylip's recipe for the dough and a 12" CI pan. After the dough, fresh graded mozzarella, pulled pork, some sweet baby rays bbq sauce and more mozzarella. I will have my large BGE at 650.
Do I oil the pan before putting in dough?
I'm planning on using my plate setter, legs down and set the CI pan directly on the plate setter. Yes/ No?
Zippy's recipe says 6 minutes but others have said 20 minutes or until it looks and smells good. Yes/ No?
Lid open/ closed?
Change anything/ everything??
Sorry if this has been covered already.

bigguy, first off I'm not sure which recipe you're using. I've seen some posts where people are using the cold rise version for deep dish which I don't recommend. That dough is much better suited to hot fast thin crust as it has more moisture. The increased moisture tends to turn the dough (when trapped between the cast iron and the cheese gasket) into a heavy cement like product. Stick with the other version of dough which is much faster to make & it'll come out better. Second, 650 is too high for deep dish, go at 400 or 450 at the highest and it will cook more evenly taking about 25 minutes. Third, put spacers (green egg feet work well) on the plate setter first then the cast iron ontop, that'll prevent burning the bottom of the crust. Fourth, yes, oil the pan and do so generously. Finally, close the lid.

This is the recipe I was going to use. Is it correct? 1) Combine 1.5 cups of cold water, 3 cups of flour, 1 teaspoon of yeast and 1 teaspoon of salt; 2) Mix with a spoon for a few seconds to eliminate any large pools of water; 3) Let stand for 20 minutes; 4) Mix on medium for 20 minutes (it will be very soupy, don’t worry); 5) Turn off, cover, let stand for another 20 minutes; 6) Turn mixer back on & add up to 1 additional cup of flour (about 1 tablespoon at a time) allowing it to incorporate. Repeat this until you get the consistency you are looking for (it should be pulling away from the bowl, yet still be sticky enough so that it is a pain in the ass to get out of the bowl); 7) Remove from bowl, cut into individual pieces (2 for 2-16 inch pies, 3 for 3-12 inch pies, or 4 for 4-12 inch thin-crust pies); 8) Place in separate oiled plastic containers & cover; 9) Refrigerate for a minimum of 24 hours and up to 4 days; 10) Remove about 2 hours before you are ready to use; 11) When removing from the bowl, be patient, it will want to stay in the bowl, this is normal; 12) On a floured surface, gently shape the dough (due to the higher moisture content, this dough will be harder to work with than more typical dough, so be careful not to tear it – tossing will not likely be possible); 13) Bake on egg at a minimum of 650 degrees. This dough benefits from higher temps, I’ve tried it at lower temps and the results were not as good. It will take about 6 minutes at this temp.

Budgeezer · December 2012

In for more info, I made this same dough last night for a Friday deep dish pizza cook.

cazzy · December 2012

@Zippylip I went back and read the IM and I see where I goofed up. My apologies...especially since I may be the cause for some peeps using the cold rise and not the 4 cup flour original recipe.

Zippylip · December 2012

bigguy, I think you may have missed this post which seems to be causing confusion. Open up the link and follow it and you should have success. My suggestion is (at least at first) to follow it precisely without modification even if it seems like a good idea. Benefit from the experience I have in f'n up about 1000 pizzas over the years which should allow you to begin from a much better place:

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1144692/mushroom-lovers-deep-dish-pizza

Little Steven · December 2012

But I don't like mushrooms. I would rather have olives and anchovies. Should I just use the other dough and cook at 650? Maybe somewhere in between?

Budgeezer · December 2012

I'm just going to charge ahead and use the dough that I have rising in the fridge for my deep dish cook on Friday. I'll post an update with the out come.

cazzy · December 2012

Budgeezer said:
I'm just going to charge ahead and use the dough that I have rising in the fridge for my deep dish cook on Friday. I'll post an update with the out come.

While it wasn't the right recipe, the dough still tasted great so I have a strong feeling you'll still love it.

Next time, I'll definitely take zippy's advice since he's the Pizza King!

bud812 · December 2012

cazzy said:

I'm just going to charge ahead and use the dough that I have rising in the fridge for my deep dish cook on Friday. I'll post an update with the out come.
While it wasn't the right recipe, the dough still tasted great so I have a strong feeling you'll still love it. Next time, I'll definitely take zippy's advice since he's the Pizza King!

And NOLA is the Sofa King.

)

nolaegghead · December 2012

..we todd did

bigguy136 · December 2012

Thanks Zippy, I will be doing a single (2 cup) pie this weekend. I was going to make the 4 cup cold method on Wed, and make the pie after work on Thurs but the 2 cup recipe is 2 hour rest in bowl and another 2 hours in the pan. 1st time I want to be exact.

Would it have worked if I went 8 hours in the bowl and 9 hours in the pan (make the dough the night before and lay the dough in the pan before I went to work)?

Zippylip · December 2012

bigguy136 said:

Thanks Zippy, I will be doing a single (2 cup) pie this weekend. I was going to make the 4 cup cold method on Wed, and make the pie after work on Thurs but the 2 cup recipe is 2 hour rest in bowl and another 2 hours in the pan. 1st time I want to be exact.
Would it have worked if I went 8 hours in the bowl and 9 hours in the pan (make the dough the night before and lay the dough in the pan before I went to work)?

bigguy, no, warm rising for 17 hours is too long unless it's extremely cold in your house. It will be soupy & unworkable. At the same time, don't set a stop watch to 2 hours, that's an approximate guide. Look more for a doubling of size for your first rise. Then, after you've flattened it out & placed it in the cast iron pan, look for it to again double in size. Basically it should nearly fill the pan. At that point it is very light and airy, and will sag back down a little when you begin putting your toppings on. Take a look at the pictues in the mushroom pizza post, that's what you're looking for.

For more information and generally, let me back up. There are basically two temperature methods to making pizza dough, warm rise or cold rise. Warm rise can be done either at room temperature or, to speed it up, in the warming drawer of your oven at maybe 100 degrees. The advantange of warm rise dough is that it can be ready quickly (as little as 30 mintues or so if done in a warming drawer) but can take as long as several hours (I've gone as long as 8 hours) on the countertop, the time varyies depending on temperature in your house (the higher the temperature/the shorter the time and vice versa). The disadvantage of warm rise is that it does not have enough time to develop flavor typically associated with longer rise times. Cold rise is done in the refrigerator. The advantage of cold rise is that it can have better flavor and texture, and can also be kept for several days to be pulled out when ready to use. The disadvantage is it takes longer.

The cold rise method that you were initially following is a much wetter dough and is much better suited to thin crust, very high temp cooks (over 600 degrees). When the wet dough hits the scorching hot stone that moisture turns to steam creating very desireable lift & bubbles, and most of the moisture escapes during the short hot cook leaving you with a very nice light and airy crust.

Here's the rub, the same attribute that allows the cold rise dough to work so well in hot fast cooks (the increased moisture) becomes a disadvantage when making my version of deep dish pizza because one, there is no high temperature shock (it is baked at lower temps and indirect), and two all of that moisture becomes trapped - the bottom and the sides of the iron pan and the top covered in cheese (think of it as a gasket) have the effect of sealing essentially 100% of the dough and trapping all of that moisture within the dough. The result is a very heavy & dense dough rather than a light and airy dough that results from the much drier warm rise method. All that said, it's still good it's just not as good in my opinion.

Keep in mind that regardless of the method, either one can be altered to increase or decrease the moisture level and work equally well regardless of the style of pizza you are making. But, I've found that there is simply no need to go through the extra time and steps of making the cold rise for deep dish pie as it works so beautifully with the warm rise method and it's just more harmonious to put it together, knead it & rise it all in the same bowl for the first rise.

If you want more of an understanding of the cold rise version, take a look at this thread:

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/987401/stage-two-pizza-dough-with-o-verbose-commentary

Zippylip · December 2012

Little Steven said:

But I don't like mushrooms. I would rather have olives and anchovies. Should I just use the other dough and cook at 650? Maybe somewhere in between?

Steven, at the risk of confusing others, with that combination of toppings I would actually increase the temperature to a miminum of 750 and decrease the cook time to 4 minutes. That will crisp up the bottom, sides and top. Then, remove the pie and place in the microwave for an additional 4 minutes to complete the cooking of the middle as well as kill any undesireable pathogens.

Little Steven · December 2012

Thanks man. Hey wait.....my microwave is only 12 inches deep and I do 14" pies

vidalia1 · December 2012

None of what you guys are talking about is any where close to an authentic Chicago style deep dish pie....jeesh

vidalia1 · December 2012

http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1106239&catid=1#

Now we are talking...the crust must have semolina flour and the pan coated in Crisco...mmmmm

vidalia1 · December 2012

Here is the recipe:

http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1106526&catid=1#

Eggcelsior · December 2012

vidalia1 said:

Here is the recipe:

http://www.greeneggers.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=1106526&catid=1#

Nice to meet a fellow baker who does everything the right way. By weight only!

cazzy · December 2012

vidalia1 said:

None of what you guys are talking about is any where close to an authentic Chicago style deep dish pie....jeesh

When I made mine, I specifically called it a "pan pizza" for that very reason. I plan to make a "deep dish" soon so thanks for the link!

vidalia1 · December 2012

Thanks Cazzy & Eggc...I was mostly giving Zippy & Steven a hard time...but it is an authentic Chicago deep dish recipe...I hope you enjoy...

)

Zippylip · December 2012

Eggcelsior said:
Nice to meet a fellow baker who does everything the right way. By weight only!

the 'right way', well I for one am happy to be in the presence of your omniscience

Eggcelsior · December 2012

Zippylip said:

Eggcelsior said:
Nice to meet a fellow baker who does everything the right way. By weight only!

the 'right way', well I for one am happy to be in the presence of your omniscience

Tee Hee! That's what I get for working in a bakery. All we had were weights and scales. No volume measures except for liquids.

Plus- Julia Child, the good people at King Arthur Flour(James Beard winner) and ATK, Cook's Illus., Cook's Country have taught me much as well.

Don't forget, the best way to measure flour is scoop and swipe to get 1 cup to ~4.25 oz/~125gm

SamFerrise · December 2012

Unless you have a true wood burning oven you never have to go over 550 for pizza of any kind unless you like the crispy cracker dough.

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