3rd Time's The Charm? Not Quite

GeorgiaBorn

Some of you may have read my previous posts regarding the birthday present my wife gave me 2 weeks ago (XL Egg). Let me summarize:

1st time: I didn't put enough charcoal and the egg never got to temp.

2nd time: I did every thing right but only used one fire starter in the middle of the charcoal pile and it took over an hour to get to 500 degrees and then never got any higher. Our ribeyes tasted like charcoal. It was a disaster.

Many of you offered help including tips such as use more fire starters and wait until the smoke is blueish in color. So tonight I did just that. I used 4 fire starters. The temp got up to 400 within about 5 minutes but quickly dropped to 300. After about 35 minutes it was topped out again at 500. I started the propane grill in disgust and was going to snuff the egg's fire. I removed the black cast iron thing off the top so I could put the green ceramic top on but before I put the ceramic top on I noticed the temp immediately started to rise, so I waited about 10 minutes and the egg's temp got up to 650!

So I got my ribeyes and put them on. 2 minutes later I went to turn them and they were engulfed in flames and completely charred. I turned them anyway and put them on the outside edges of the grate. Waited two more minutes, turned them again (once again charred but not as much as the first side). I put the green cap on the egg and closed the bottom damper and left them on for about another 1.5 minutes and took them off.

Everything I have read and all the videos I have seen said the egg with NOT flame up with the top closed. The only thing I can assume is that without the black cast iron top on top of the egg, there was too much air which caused the flame ups and subsequently charred my steaks. Can anyone enlighten me?

I will say that the parts of the steak that were not burned was probably the tastiest steak I have ever eaten, so I am not ready to throw in the towel just yet. Just looking for some ideas from you fine folks as to why you think my steaks burned. Sorry for the long post, but my wife is so upset. She spent a house note on this thing. Thanks!

Misippi Egger

GB,

Sorry you are having beginner problems. I am a "large" owner, not an XL, so maybe an XL-spert will also answer.

Getting initial good temps is something all us had a tough learning curve with as newbies! You are in good company. Don't throw in the towel. You will be putting that gasser out for the trash man soon ! :laugh:

I always start hot fires with the DFMT (metal top) completely off. I does require some attention, though. When you get close to your goal temp, start closing down the bottom vent (on my large, a half-inch opening, with the mesh screen closed, and the DFMT still off, will get me pretty close to a 400* dome temp. A little more to get to 500-600*.

How thick were your ribeyes? I only sear for 90 seconds per side, but you need steaks at least 1.5 -2" thick to not over cook. Also remember that ribeyes (our favorites) have a lot more fat that will burn. the flare up was not related to the DFMT being off, but occurred when you opened the dome and let fresh oxygen in.

Suggestion:
1) Get one 2" thick ribeye
2) Sear 90 sec on each side (not enough time to go for another beer). I do this with the stopwatch function on my watch.
3) Stick a continuous temp probe into the middle of the steak (Maverick E-73 is a good one).
4) Close the bottom vent and place the green ceramic cap on top, letting the steak roast as the temp slowly drops.
5) Remove the steak at 125* (for medium rare), cover with foil on a plate and let rest 8-10 minutes (internal temp will climb 5-10*).
6) Divide between you and your wife and ENJOY !

I hope that helps !

[Deleted User]

The following are notes I made and I often send to newbies who sound like they may be having trouble getting started.:

Before you cook on it the first time, do a dry run.

Starting the fire:
Load it with lump up to the fire ring and start it with starter cubes 3 placed equidistant from the center. Leave the dome open until the starter cubes have completely burned up. If not they’ll smoke like crazy during your cook and it won’t be good smoke. After the starters have burned up, close the dome and watch the temp rise. Typically you want to adjust your dampers before you get to the target temp so you don’t over shoot it. The ceramic holds heat well so if you overshoot a temp it takes a long time to get it back because not only do you need to reduce the fire, the shell has to cool down too. (After you get comfortable with the Egg, you may want to try other methods of lighting it like a weedburner, MAPP torch, paper towel and Vegetable oil or rubbing alcohol. Like everything with the Egg, there is no one, single right way.)

Temperature control:
You can control your temp by adjusting the airflow by adjusting the lower draft door and the daisy wheel/cap on the chimney.
It was explained to me with a garden hose analogy where the lower vent door is like the spigot out of the house for gross adjustments and the daisy is like the nozzle for fine tuning the temp. This was too complicated for me so for cooks over 350, I leave the daisy off, chimney wide open and adjust the temp via the draft door only. This works out to about ¼”= 350, 3/4”=400, 1.25”=500. This will vary depending on the type of lump you use. The daisy allows you finer temperature control but also enables more smoke to be retained in the cooking area and my family ain’t big on smoky flavor, so I only use it for low and slows (ribs, brisket, butts and picnic shoulders).

I marked my lower draft door at 300, 400, 500 and 550. I still use these guides.

Before you cook:
Light your fire as described above and let it burn for at least 20 minutes. The smoke should be clear to wispy blue, virtually non-existant, before you put your food on to cook. Check this intro to BBQ out. It’s particularly good explaining about smoke:
http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/2004/02/introduction-to-barbecuing.html

First cooks
I melted my gasket on day 4. After having high temp cooks for the first 3 days, I got it going and walked away to discuss a new stone wall with a contractor. When I returned the temp was over 900 and when I opened the dome, the gasket was fused together and peeled off the bottom. Don’t walk away from the egg or leave it unattended before you have stabilized the temp.
It is now recommended that you lay off the high heat cooks until your egg has several cooks on it. That said, I have cooked all of the following at 400 or less and it has all been delicious: Whole Chicken, Chicken Thighs, wings, drumsticks, 1.5” thick steaks, steak tips, Roast Beef, Roasted leg of lamb, lamb chops, pork tenderloin, roast pork, 1.5” thick pork chops, fish filets and steaks, shrimp, scallops, bread and pie. There may be more but that’s what comes to mind. This does not include the low and slo stuff (mentioned above) or vegetables. Some people make great pizza at 400-450, but I like to cook it hotter. I think if you have a thicker crust and more toppings, higher temps don’t work as well.

Direct/Indirect cooks:
Direct is a regular cook over the coals. Indirect introduces a barrier between heat source and food. The barrier can be as simple as a drip pan below the meat that’s cooking. On my mini, I often just use a square of aluminum foil. The Platesetter is an accessory that BGE makes for indirect cooks. When you put the platesetter in place, the dome temp will drop because the mass of the platesetter will need to catch up to the rest of the Egg. Therefore there will be a drop in temp until the platesetter heats up. With the platesetter in place, the Egg cooks like a convection oven. Some indirect cooks are Pizza, Bread, Pie. Chicken and roasts cooked indirect don’t usually require any turning. Alternatively, Chicken and roasts can also be done on a raised grid.

Raised grid:
Allows you to cook double decker or to cook higher in the dome, farther from the flames from fat/grease dripping. Some people use this to cook two layers of ribs or butts. I always use it when cooking chicken direct.

It's not always as easy getting started as folks make it sound. There is a learninng curve. Just relax and give it a go.

good luck!

Misippi Egger

My entire cook last night was done (both eggs) with the DFMT completely off.

http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=742853&catid=1

Brokersmoker

Got some good tips (I think from Grampas Grub) when I first started couple months ago.

To start, fill with lump to fire ring use 2 - 3 starters. Nestle them down with the lump around them but not to smother them, Close top right away with cap off and bottom vent open all the way. there will be an initial surge of heat from the fire starters and then the temp will drop. On 2nd rising of temp put on the daisy wheel about 50 degrees from target and adjust (bottom vent to).

This has worked for me, also there is a photo guide as to how much to leaqve vents open for different temps.

Hope this helps, once you get it down, you'll luv your egg! :cheer:

GeorgiaBorn

Hey guys, I appreciate your replies but nobody is really answering my question here. I did everything according to plan but my steaks still charred. It had nothing to do with their thickness. The egg flamed up for what looked like the entire first two minutes of cooking. The steaks were completely black.

I appreciate all the tips on how to start the fire and get the egg to the right temp. I managed to do that just fine. I cooked the steaks at 650. Seared each side for two minutes. They burnt beyond recognition.

Why did they burn? Sorry if I sound frustrated but this is getting to be waaaaay too much work.

CBBQ

I own a medium, large and XL so here's what I'll advise you on top of the good advice you've already gotten. The first thing you need to do is make sure your thermometer is calibrated correctly. It makes all of the difference in the world. The next thing I'd advise is to hang with your egg. The biggest mistake people make is walking away from it during the learning process. It gets away from you fast so watch how fast it heats (or doesn't). Each egg has it's own charactiristics as does lump. You've got to work with it and learn. Different lump burns at different temps and speed and each has a distinctive flavor. Take the time to learn what you like and how your egg cooks.
The number one thing to learn is PATIENCE! My wife bought me my first egg 7 years ago and after 3 crappy cooks I was asking "What the ^%$*&?". I have since turned that knowledge into a succesful bbq business as have others. PATIENCE!

SWOkla-Jerry

I started with an XL egg. Steaks and burgers are quite simple. I cook with lid open for the short sear at 500 degrees and then close and shut down vents for the final roast. I like my filets rare so its a pretty short process. I have not encountered the probs you have. All the advise given so far is good info. I think maybe you are rushing the process. I sometimes don't throw the meat on the grill for an hour or so...especially after a couple of cocktails.

uglydog

Georgia Born, I feel your pain. Here is a link to the T-Rex method for cooking steaks. I have had much success with this technique. http://www.nakedwhiz.com/trexsteak.htm

Cheers,

Uglydog

uglydog

Here is another link to Grandpa's Grub's very helpful information on temperature control. He has been a most gracious forum member who has patiently led many of us down the path of better temp control and fantastic cooks. http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=670088&catid=1

Don't give up on the egg. Once you get over the hump in the learning curve it's all good. There are many great resources available on this forum. You are about to embark on a journey of good food and great cooks.

Uglydog

[Deleted User]

Sometimes I am guilty of not listening to the question, so I apologize that I took off in the wrong direction.

It is hard when you ask a question and get voluminous information to read that doesn't exactly address your concern.

I cooked the steaks at 650. Seared each side for two minutes. They burnt beyond recognition.

When I'm searing at high temps, it's for a short time so I stay close. At high temps, you have more of a chance that dripping fat will flame up. You also have a chance of flashback (search the forums or TNW site- there's lots of discussion on this). I always wear welders gloves when doing this kind of cook because there will be sudden blasts of high heat and flames.

I typically don't sear anything for more than 1 minute per side before flipping. I do keep the dome down but many do the sears with the dome open. If I see black tendrils of smoke coming out the chimney and/or flames coming out the chimney or if you can tell there's flames in there- it's starting to burn and you need to flip it.

It's probably easier to just leave the dome open while doing this and let the flames fly. This will avoid any surprise fireballs from greeting you when you open the dome. Just make sure you have a long pair of tongs and welders gloves. If the steak is starting to smoke, flip it and see what kind of charring you got. Could be anywhere from none to black. If the charring is as you like it, flip it again when you have had it on the same amount of time, leave it longer if you want more or shorter if you want less.

One more thing:

Everything I have read and all the videos I have seen said the egg with NOT flame up with the top closed. The only thing I can assume is that without the black cast iron top on top of the egg, there was too much air which caused the flame ups and subsequently charred my steaks. Can anyone enlighten me?

You need the top off to hit the high temps and yes, when you are going that high, there can be flames in there even with the dome closed. I have cooked pizza at 650 and looked in through the chimney to see flames licking up the sides of the egg around the platesetter. If you let it set for awhile at 650 (or whatever your target temp is) the coals will eventually become consumed and will still crank out the heat you need without producing much flame. I believe you and I have seen the flames at 650 because even though our fires were burning clean, we still had a large amount of unburned, new lump that when burning is hot but also more likely to produce a flame.

hope this helps.

GeorgiaBorn

So essentially everything that I have seen in videos and read and was told about cooking steaks on this thing is not true. Trex's method in my opinion is absurd. Let the steak rest for 20 minutes before finishing the cooking process while the egg decreases in temp? Are you kidding me? His method will take nearly 45 minutes to cook a steak, not to mention the time it takes to get the egg to temp in the first place. This process will be like 2 hours to cook a steak!

I watch this guy in the video on the egg website cook ribeyes exactly like I cooked mine last night. Mine got charred completely black. His didn't. He cooked his for 2 minutes a side at 650. So did I.

Look guys, I appreciate the time you all have taken giving me advice, but this egg is probably not for me. I don't want to spend 2 hours cooking steaks. I don't want to waste $15-$20 per steak until I figure out that the egg does not do what I was told it would do and certainly doesn't do what the videos and literature from the good folks at BGE say it will do. Ready to cook in less than 10 minutes? HA! Won't ever flare up with the top down? HA!

I am pissed off and my wife is pissed off. I cook some great steaks on my gas grill and it takes about 6-8 minutes for a 1" steak. Never had any complaints so far. Pretty sure I will be returning my egg. Thanks guys.

Misippi Egger

Sorry you feel that way. You are definitely making a mistake! I was a gasser cooker for 10+ years and thought I made the best steaks, chicken, etc. That is, until I learned to cook on my egg.

Buy some less expensive steaks for learning purposes. You shouldn't be burning them at 650*.

Try less lump - for cooking a steak you won't be cooking that long and a smaller amount of lump should easily last long enough. It will also be a little less hot and a little farther from the grid.

Are you using n oil/fat-based marinade on your ribeyes? It could be contributing to the dripping flammables and the burn on the steak.

Try 500*. It takes getting used to your egg. If you don't want to do the TRex thing, then use the recommended sear and dwell technique you were trying. It takes less time and the steaks come out great.

Like I said in my first post, I use a large instead of the XL and I think my grid is probably a little farther from the lump than the XL (could be wrong here).

Maybe trade down to a large...

I hate to see you disappointed and frustrated. The egg has been the best grill/smoker I have ever used and I get nothing but outstanding compliments on the different foods I cook on it. :woohoo:

GeorgiaBorn

Nope, no marinade and the first time I used the egg I used less charcoal and couldn't get it to temp. So I have tried everything you're saying.

Bottom line for me is that I don't want to spend 2 hours cooking steaks. I want to "turn" on my grill and be ready to cook 6-8 minute steaks in about 10 minutes. The BGE doesn't do what they advertise and that just really bothers me.

I will be contacting the sales rep that sold it to my wife today and inquiring about returning it. Again, I do appreciate all the help I got here.

[Deleted User]

I understand your frustration. Coming from a gasser to the Egg is a BIG change. It is not foolproof and you have to consider more issues when cooking. Also, unlike the gasser, there is no one, single way to cook anything on the Egg- which can be confusing in the beginning.

I want to \"turn\" on my
grill and be ready to cook 6-8 minute steaks in about 10 minutes.

Nope, you're right, you can't do that on an Egg. Gone are the days I would get home from work at 5:00, decide I wanted to grill, throw something on and be ready to eat by 5:30. It is my opinion that the Egg is not for everyone (like my wife).

You do have to plan your time and you have to want to make it work. I watched that video and 2 things I noted is that he doesn't say what temp he's cooking at (hint: Judging by how slow they cooked, it ain't 650) and there are flames visible every time he opens the dome.

When you are cooking at high temps like 600+, there is a lot of heat and when fat drips you'll get a lot of flame. For searing steaks the rule of thumb is 30 seconds per inch of thickness, per side.. If they were truly searing those steaks in the video, it would've been closer to 30 seconds per side for those guys.
If you are cooking closer to 400, you won't get so much of a flareup unless the dome is open.

Re: the 2 hour steak - When I cook anything, I let the fire burn for a good 20 minutes before I cook. I use this time to prep the food that's going on the grill and start the sides. I expect every cook to take a half-hour anyway.

Then I cook the steak for anywhere from 1 minute per side to 10 or 15 minutes depending what and how I'm cooking it. Then I take it off and prepare the sides, that's when my steak rests.

Coming from a gasser myself, I know it's not an esy transition. One thing that is probably understated is the learning that's necessary. You can't just go from gas to charcoal without some help. This forum is invaluable that way. The Egg may not be as easy to start with as everyone makes it sound, but after learning how to use it will become simple.

The thing I never experienced with my gasser that I do experience with the Egg is that cooking has become an enjoyable experience. Guys always like to grill, but the Egg adds a whole new dimension to outdoor cooking.

GeorgiaBorn

Bob, I respectfully disagree with you about the video. He clearly states that he is cooking at 650 degrees. And he seared for 2 minutes per side and then "shut" the egg off and cooked for an additional 2 minutes. He couldn't have been more clear on that. Perhaps we are watching different videos, you and I?

[Deleted User]

Nah, I must've missed it- I had to keep the volume down because I'm at work and I didn't hear him mention the temp. I don't believe he was cooking at 650. No Way.

If I was you and I followed those directions I'd be pissed too!

If I put 3/4" steaks on at 650 and left them for 2 minutes per side, I would expect shoe leather. (Black shoe leather).

GeorgiaBorn

The steaks I cooked last night were 1.5" rib eyes and as I mentioned before, they were charred beyond recognition after the first 2 minutes of searing.

[Deleted User]

DAMMIT!
I just wrote a good response and hit the wrong button on this goddam laptop!
Here's the first Tuna I grilled. Seared 1 minute per side at 600 or 650.


You can see lots of unburned coals below and some flame is visible in these pics.

I like it rare. Came out good. My daughter who was not a big fan of fish said it tasted kind of like "meat".

My point is to show you the importance of time, especially on high temp cooks. When I first got my Egg, the first advice I got was to throw out the instruction book.
To make the Egg work for me, I needed to adjust my expectations. Anything is easy if you know how to do it, hard if you don't.

Unknown

You are probably right to take it back.

It is not really as substitute for a gasser, but is more like a whole new direction. Has a learning curve for some. And it isn't for you if you want to just push a button and start cooking. There's nothing wrong with that, but that isn't part of the BGE demographic, really. We are after the food first, and time is often irrelevant.

When I fire up my small or my large with new lump, i can be at 750 degrees in fifteen minutes. But that is a small or large egg and using a light charcoal like Cowboy. Just changing to another brand of lump can add a half hour to the warm up, because some are very dense.

My advice to most people sometimes is to ignore the video. It needs to be general, but some folks wanbt specifics. Can't be done. An XL at 650 isn't the same as a large at 650. If you are close to the lump, you are cooking at 1200 degrees, which is the real temperature of lump when it burns. the dome thermometer is not relevant when searing. I only use it when roasting or BBQing (indirect).

Keep in mind that there are a lot of variables involved. steak thickness and starting temperature, how far from the lump you are, whether you grill dome open or not.

It's probably not for you, and that doesn't mean it sucks or that you do. It's just not a good fit.

fishlessman

well you learned about removing the daisy, thats a positive, the egg lights faster without it and reaches higher temps with it sitting on the table. i never time the sear, i watch it until it looks right and with the sear and dwell method your using you want to start closing it down before its fully seared because your cooking at such high temps. get rid of the whole clock thing, get a thermapen for internal temps, and just cook the thing. now that ribeye is fatty which creates fat dripping in the fire more than say a strip steak, nothing wrong with dwelling that piece in a pan after searing it, trick is to find out what works best for YOU, not what works best for us, we all have different preferences, i like the laid back trex approach with steaks, especially with ribeyes as the roasting temp is lower and that flarup your seeing is all that fat dripping in hot fire. try the dwell in the pan, i cooked that way searing stove top and dweelling in the oven in a pan for years, it works. somethin else is i like raised grills, less chance of charring a steak, now if this were lamb, i charr away. :laugh: also if 650 isnt working for you, tone it down and also since it took so long to get it hot because you had the diasy on, temps will not drop as much during the dwell, you have your ceramics holding too much heat at that time. i dont mess around with starting the egg either, i hit it hard with a 500,000 btu weed burner for a good minute to get it blazing hot quickly. after you get whats right for you, its hard to go back to the gasser, had to cook some ribeyes last week on one and would have been happier eating a peanut butter sandwich :ermm: if your searing/ dwelling, stick to saly only for the cook, some dont like pepper seared at high temps like this, adds a burned flavor.

BobS

GeorgiaBorn wrote:

Hey guys, I appreciate your replies but nobody is really answering my question here. I did everything according to plan but my steaks still charred. It had nothing to do with their thickness. The egg flamed up for what looked like the entire first two minutes of cooking. The steaks were completely black.

I appreciate all the tips on how to start the fire and get the egg to the right temp. I managed to do that just fine. I cooked the steaks at 650. Seared each side for two minutes. They burnt beyond recognition.

Why did they burn? Sorry if I sound frustrated but this is getting to be waaaaay too much work.

I am sorry to hear about your problems! I really think that they can be fixed pretty easily.

Based on your note, I believe that had you left the Egg alone, after removing the top, you would have eventually wound out the temperature (750+).

In other words the temp was not stable -- you still had extra O2 going in for the actual amount of fire in the Egg. When the fat from the steaks got in there, you had a flair-up.

It is really a question of chemistry -- you cannot have a flair-up in the BGE, if you are stable controlling the air. There is always plenty of fuel in the Egg, so adding more (fat in this case) does not do anything, if the fire (temperature) is stable.

If you wish, for a quick start, start the Egg, with the top off and the bottom wide open and when the egg gets to 500, start closing down on the damper until you catch the temp rise.

You can cook on the egg, just like your gasser, without the wait for Trexing, etc.

Get the temp stable at the desired temp and throw on the steak. It will come out great.

[Deleted User]

I used 4 fire starters. The temp got up to 400 within about 5 minutes but quickly dropped to 300. After about 35 minutes it was topped out again at 500.

the firestarters will temporarily raise the dome temp while they are burning. Then when they have been consumed, the temp will drop, settle out and start to rise again.

that's what happened to you there.

Also, FWIW, if the firstarters don't completely burn up they may continue to smolder during your cook which can impart an unpleasant smokieness to your food.

Eggston

Good info. We are fairly new and have destroyed one gasket, one external temp gauge and one small rack of ribs. We figured it all out, but you're right, it's a learning curve. Tks. Skeeter :silly:

Eggston

What do you use for a starter? electric?

BobS

When the cooker is hot, you can get a lot of fire when you open the lid, but it is part of the desired searing process.

It can be a hazard to the cooker, but not to the steak, if managed.

This was around 600 and the steaks still look good to me.

[Deleted User]

I used to use the parafin starter cubes, but switched over to the oil and paper towel method.

I never run out of fire starters that way and no matter where I go, they always have what I need. Also I think the papertowel burns up quicker than the cubes.

fieroguy

Doesn't anyone live near this guy? Hate to see him disgruntled with his egg. I know not his location, but if it is near me, I will gladly go to his abode and do whatever I can to help him.

Woody69

fieroguy wrote:

Doesn't anyone live near this guy? Hate to see him disgruntled with his egg......

That's what I was thinking too. Surely somone is close enough to lend a hand. I would hate to see him get rid of the Egg.

Eggston

Flashback Bob:

What is the paper towel/parafin/vegie oil lighting techniqe?

[Deleted User]

Paper towel/Cooking oil firestarter:

Take two paper towels (or napkins) and fold in thirds.
Drizzle with cooking oil ( I use any kind of cooking oil though I have had trouble only with canola oil).
Don't soak it, just a zigzag squiggle the length of the paper towel.

Then twist 'em a few times.

Nestle them in the center of the lump and light each paper towel at each end.

I leave the dome open till they're all burned up and then I close the dome. The reason being that I believe the starters (whatever kind you use) burn up better that way. If your starters don't burn up completely, they can smolder throughout your cook, imparting a bad taste to the food. Dome open or closed may not matter but that's the way I like to do it.

For future reference, you can try doing a search in the box in the upper right side of the page. You might find pictures and better info than what I will tell you.