OT Wilderness Battlefield, maybe History

Panhandle Smoker

Big Box Walmart is throwing their weight around and moving in on American history. They plan to build a Super Walmart on the Wilderness Battlefield. This bothers me as it should a lot of you. This was a major battle during the Civil War and should be there for our children and our children's children to see. Some history should be preserved at all cost. Shame on the city/county officials for siding with Walmart to build on the famous battlefield.

http://www.civilwar.org/take-action/speak-out/wilderness-walmart/

Haggis

Not sure this is the place for the discussion but whatever . . . While I'd rather not see Walmart there, please get the facts straight.

Its the Wilderness battlefield in Spotsylvania, not Fredericksburg. Fredericksburg was a disaster for the Union, they were soundly defeated, and they went back north to lick their wounds. Wilderness, in 1864, was a disaster for the Union but they kept moving south, ending up in Richmond after many more similar disasters. The end of the war became possible because of the Wilderness.

That said, even the map on the website you refer us to shows the Walmart site only on the edge of the battle lines.

Panhandle Smoker

As for the place for discussion this is the off topic board. As for the topic you are correct it is the Wilderness Battle Field, That's what I get for watching the news and not reading. ABC made it sound like it was Fredericksburg Battlefield. Regardless it too was a major battlefield and should be left as it is. I guess it is in the same county but it was voted 4 to 1 in favor of Walmart. It doesn't matter what battlefield in my opinion they should all be left to preserve our country's history. So when you go see a place of historic significance do you want to see the Wallmart right next to it? I don't. That is what is so nice about places like Yorktown Battlefield, it is now just as it was then with exception of a few roads and the visitors center discreetly tucked away out of sight.

mad max beyond eggdome

eddie, i live in northern virginia, and i'm all for historic preservation as much if not more than anyone. ...but if we were to preserve every single site that the civil war raged across in this state, there'd be no place for anything or anyone ....the war ebbed and flowed across the entire state. ..battles big and small were fought just about everywhere. ...forts were built all over the place by the south and the north, etc. ...there are small cemetaries, etc. ...almost every street corner has one of those historic sign posts telling you about something that happened there during that period. ...its my understanding that that wallmart is not being built on the battlefield site, but adjacent to it. .. .so yes, if you are standing on the site, will you be able to see the building, probably, but is the site itself "hallowed ground"?? i don't think so. ...if you start trying to stop development of all the ground within plain site of every battlefield in the state, large and small, thats a tough battle to fight and defend. ...we have to pick our fights here in virginia. ...we succesffully fought off disney from building next to mannassas battlefield 20 years ago (i'm still not sure that was a smart deal as there are now strip malls and town houses on the same ground, but thats another story). ..but you try maintain some buffers around the more important sites. ..

stike

gotta go to france and england to realize how difficult it'd be to memorialize every battleground

poor folks'd have to crowd into scotland maybe, to avoid building and living on a battlefield :huh:

Panhandle Smoker

I think that this is one that should be preserved. This was the first battle where Lee and Grant's armies (162,000 men)met with over 29,800 casualties. I understand that every battlefield can not be saved but when you let Walmart move in whose next McDonalds, Lowes, Home Depot, It won't stop with Walmart. There are other areas that could be developed that do not have historical significance. I read that 30 acres of US battlefields are developed a day. At that rate what will be left for our grand kids besides Walmart? I have had the privilege to spend a lot of time in Virginia especially around the Williamsburg and York Town area and I will say that the locals there are passionate about preserving the history there. I tried to soak up as much as I could while I was there but there was not enough time to see it all. Virginia was center stage for some of the most momentous events in American military history and we should be very diligent in protecting and preserving it. If I were a Virginian, I would be proud of the states history and would see it as a resource to be protected. The History that Virginia holds is a big reason for tourist to come to Virginia. If I were to choose 1 place take my kids for a history lesson it would be the state of Virginia. In my opinion Virginia is a historical gold mine. There are only a few major battlefields of the Civil War and at very least these should be preserved. There are several small battlefields here in the Deep South of which most people have never heard of. The only reason some of these have been preserved is because they are in the sticks. Some belong to the states and very few are National Parks.

Major battles of the Civil War:
Fort Sumter · 1st Bull Run · Wilson's Creek · Fort Donelson · Pea Ridge · Hampton Roads · Shiloh · New Orleans · Corinth · Seven Pines · Seven Days · 2nd Bull Run · Antietam · Perryville · Fredericksburg · Stones River · Chancellorsville · Gettysburg · Vicksburg · Chickamauga · Chattanooga · Wilderness · Spotsylvania · Cold Harbor · Atlanta · Mobile Bay · Franklin · Nashville · Five Forks

bitslammer

I blame Obama. Somehow someway he has to be behind this.

On a serious not however this is what happens in a truly "free market" world. Someone has land to sell, Wal-Mart has the $$$$ to buy it. If there were some preservation society that you trump Wal-Mart's bid then the market decides that preservation wins.

Having the gov't step in a preserve something historical???? Why that's a very socialist (or communist) idea.

Haggis

Hey, Eddie - your points are all good but you should have talked to McClellan about preservation - his Peninsula Campaign ran right over the top of the Revolutionary War's Yorktown battlefield and both sides built new fortifications by destroying the old ones. As Mad Max says, Virginia is covered with Civil War battlefields and that section of Spotsylvania was fought over time and again. If you saw what is around Manassas - 30 miles northwest of DC, you'd be disgusted. Parts of Maryland suffer similar problems - Antietam for example. And Gettysburg is a real mess (do you remember the viewing tower issue? At least that was torn down a few years ago after decades.) The simple fact is that defining the edge of the relevant battle is a tough job and the preservationists tend to stretch the border while the developers shrink it.

Tell you what though - after they build that Walmart, Max and I promise not to buy any Royal Oak there! Right Max?

Panhandle Smoker

I think that is especially unique about York Town that a lot of the earth works were used again during the Civil War. Some modifications were made but nothing permanent like modern development of buildings and parking lots.

Panhandle Smoker

How is protecting our national treasures and resources communist or socialist? If the government didn't step in and make national parks none of them would be left. There would be condos and golf courses at Yellowstone. Some people have no sense of value to history or natural resources. I am not a tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination but I do value our natural resources and history. As long as someone can make a buck they don't care what they destroy to get it. I am all for free market but there has to be regulation/restraint somewhere. If there were no government intervention the exploitation of resources both natural and historic would continue until there were none left.

bitslammer

Panhandle Smoker wrote:

How is protecting our national treasures and resources communist or socialist? If the government didn't step in and make national parks none of them would be left. There would be condos and golf courses at Yellowstone. Some people have no sense of value to history or natural resources. I am not a tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination but I do value our natural resources and history. As long as someone can make a buck they don't care what they destroy to get it. I am all for free market but there has to be regulation/restraint somewhere. If there were no government intervention the exploitation of resources both natural and historic would continue until there were none left.

My reply was somewhat tongue in cheek which doesn't always translate to text.

I'm a very firm believer in conservation. My wife and I have just started making it a point to try and hit 2 national Parks each year and each has been an unforgettable experience.

It's for that reason I could not vote for the idiotic nitwit who kept saying "drill baby drill" on what is some of the last pristine land we have to enjoy.

Wal-Mart, big oil, big $$$ developers..all the same to me.

Panhandle Smoker

Agreed

mad max beyond eggdome

don't get me wrong eddie, i'm all for protecting the actual battlefield sites where blood was spilled. . .and i think in this case, the compromise was reached where that is being done. . . but in a lot of cases with civil war battlefield areas, it gets very 'gray' as to where battlefields ended and areas were the wounded may have been taken, or where encampments were set up etc. ...again, the armies where everywhere, all over the state of virginia. .. you simply can't preserve it all ....

mad max beyond eggdome

hey, i'm one of the few people that LOVED that tower at gettysburgh ...yes, it was ugly as all get out. ...but from up there you could take in the entire sweep of the battlefield which is immense. ..and get a feel for the enirety of the battle like few other places in the world save maybe for the bluffs overlooking the beaches at omaha in france. ... i for one was sorry when they tore it down. .. .