Largest turkey I can smoke safely?..

Unknown

I plan on smoking a turkey this weekend, and again next Thursday, and I plan on smoking both (while mostly following the mad max recipe). I've always had great results with brining and cooking low and slow (225 or so), so I'm going to stick with that, instead of the more typical 325-350. However, I've read that you should never smoke a large turkey, as the number of hours it will be in the danger zone will greatly increase the risk of food contamination/poisoning. Obviously I don't want that to happen, so I'm curious if any of you know how large I can go without risking food contamination? My turkey will only be around 14-15 lbs, so I think I should be okay...but I'm just not certain. I would guess that only when you get to the 18 lbs and up is when you're asking for trouble.

If 14-15 lbs is too risky, I'll either do two smaller ones at once or simple cook it at a higher temp. I've read that turkeys on the BGE turn out great no matter what the temp, so perhaps I'll give that a try for once.

Celtic Wolf

I cooked a 28 pound bird on my XL. 22 pounder on my Large.

bubba tim

Did you use a 2" fire ring? What was the set up if you don't mind spillin da beans.

Fidel

Since surface temperature is the overwhelming majority of concern regarding bacteria activity, I wouldn't think it would take more than 4 hours to get the surface (or exposed cavity surfaces) to 140* unless perhaps the bird is stuffed.

Even if that were the case, the smoke, ambient temperature, and salt present in any rub you may choose to apply would all greatly inhibit bacterial growth as well.

I think it would be safe to cook the biggest bird that will fit.

Grandpas Grub

23# on the large.

Fire ring in, plate setter legs up, spacer, turkey pan, v-rack then the bird.

The dome thermometer was touching the bird so I rotated the bird so the thermometer would dome would sit between the legs.

The next turkey I put the thermometer clip outside the egg and that worked fine. Used a Maverick ET-73 for temps anyway. Pit probe hooked on upper part of v-rack.




GG

Unknown

Huh, interesting. I've read in numerous places that, when smoking a bird, absolutely keep it under 20 lbs when going low and slow. This is because the bird will be in the danger zone for too long when cooking such a large turkey. But, maybe they were all wrong.

Unknown

you didn't read my post. I'm talking about going low and slow with a large bird, and the chances of food contamination.

Celtic Wolf

I did read your post.

As long as the heat around the bird is above 165 after the four hours you will be fine.

Celtic Wolf

I don't have a two inch ring and they don't exist for the XL

Platesetter feet down. Pan on the Egg feet

Fidel

I'm not arguing with any authorities on this point, but common sense would lend a little credibility to my argument. I am not a trained food scientist, food safety expert, or chef, nor do I have any training in any related fields.

The internal temperature of what you are cooking isn't really the issue unless the structure has somehow been breached and has allowed potential contaminants inside.

Celtic Wolf

The danger zone is 40-140 for more then 4 hours

The surface of the food will be above 200 from the time you put in till you take it out.

Celtic Wolf

Plus at 350 degrees it will take a 22 pound bird 5-6 hours to cook to 165. Using your experts logic that bird will be in the danger zone about 4.5 hours.

The exposed parts of the bird need to be out of the danger zone with-in that 4 hours.

Where have you seen the suggestion not to smoke birds over 15 pounds?

Unknown

I think you're right here and I agree. I'm guessing the others I'm referring to (like Steve Raichlen) are basically thinking---the internal part of the turkey will be in the danger zone for too long, thus the danger of smoking a large bird. But you make complete sense that its the outside that is of most concern, not the inside. With that in mind, I guess you could smoke a 30 lb turkey if you wanted (and had the space), and it still wouldn't increase the risk of food poisoning.

Unknown

first off, I apologize for above. I just re-read my original response to you and it certainly didn't come off the way I wanted it too. Sorry about that. But anyway, I read it in one of Steve Raichlen's books. Also, if you do a yahoo.com search on "smoking a turkey," the 1st and 7th search results (bbq.about.com and fabulousfoods.com) state as such. It made sense to me at the time, but that was before finding out that its the surface of the bird that counts the most, not the inside.

Fidel

Yea, but cooking at 350 isn't exactly low and slow smoking either. At the proposed target of 225-250 it will take longer than 5-6 hours, but in my uneducated opinion you are still safe.

Celtic Wolf

As much as Steve Raichlen likes to believe he is right he is wrong here.

If his theory was correct almost every bird cooked would have to be tossed whether it was smoked or not, or whether it was in an oven or not.

Stuffed birds can be tricky on this because the stuffing has been exposed. This is why I always make sure I stuff the bird just before I put it in and the stuffing is already heated. Hot Booth, cooked sausage, cooked onions, melted butter etc. Plus I don't let the stuffing sit around.

Celtic Wolf

My point was that even at higher temps the bird would be in the danger zone to long if we followed the logic suggested

Hoss

I have also read the warnings about smoking turkeys over 15 lbs.It is possible on extreme low and slow cooks,I guess.Steve is a Weber guy and was probably talking about a WSM bullet smoker or a Weber kettle.Both are very thin and can loose heat rapidly so fluctuating temps could pose a problem.I have done several 20# plus turkeys on every grill imaginable but I always cook at 325* and have never had a problem.

fishlessman

i have smoked 15 to 18 pounders a lot of times at 225/250. keep the cavity empty and open. the kosher marked birds that are frozen are salted and those come out best for me, i believe the salt will help the safety issue. i dont trust the ones that say solution added, find one with the kosher marking so you know its just maybe kosher salt and or water added. over 18 pounds i dont find the birds to come out as juicy or tender. i also use a water pan with these

stike

if the turkey were stuffed, there would be an issue, because the bacteria can/might be on the inside of the cavity. if there's no stuffing, the inside of the cavity would (oddly) be part of the surface of the bird, because it would be exposed to the air.

Photo Egg

I was told this rule does not apply to birds. Just because the outer air temp is 165 does not mean the cavity temp will reach 165 in a large bird. A solid piece of beef or pork is another issue.
Just asking, not stating facts,
Darian

stike

he's saying that the interior of the meat is not as critical as far as bacteria goes, because the bacteria is on the outside. it also is on the inside of the cavity 9due to processing), and it can get under the skin if you handle the bird and put your hand under the skin also.

the point is that as long as the bacteria are in an environment over 140, they will be controlled or killed off. since there's no bacteria INSIDE the breast meat, you don't need to worry about that. it's the surface temp of the meat (basically, the temp of the oven).

an illustration of the idea is a steak.

cook the steak til it's 125 (rare) internally, and you are fine. there's no bacteria IN the meat.

grind that steak up before cookling it, and you need to take it to 165. because you have mixed the bacteria into the meat...

Photo Egg

I do understand you logic 100%.
Just not sure that a lower temp cook as stated above will create your 140 degree cavity surfase temp real quick. The inside cavity is at a greater risk I would think? As soon as the bird is cleaned it is at the same risk as ground beef in the cavity. I understand the breast meat might be safer under the skin. Some out of time temp getting the bird from live to your kitchen plus time to prep and cook adds up. I would feel safer with the brine for sure. Tossing in some lemon, onion and other junk would sure push the limits as most of us do.
Would starting the cook at 300 and then dropping down to the 225-250 target work as well?
Again, just asking advice as well,
Darian

Unknown

good point but a question: since I plan on brining my fresh turkey for a day or two in a typical salt/sugar solution, wouldn't that be the same (if not better) than your typical frozen one? In other words, won't brining the turkey yourself add the same safety net, so to speak, as using a frozen bird?

Celtic Wolf

Salt has been known to kill bugs..

Celtic Wolf

If the cavity is empty it will get the heat rolling into it. I'd be more concerned with a stuffed bird.

Photo Egg

Thanks for the post.
Have a good night.
It's been one of those "I need a rum and coke" days...
On the road home to Galveston now.
Take care,
Darian

Mr. & Mrs Potatohead

I have smoked many turkeys (some over 20lbs.) over the years…But I smoke at 300F. Don’t know if that really makes much of a difference or not, being only a few degrees hotter. I don’t know and can’t say one way or the other, if that differance of temp. would have that big of an effect.
My “food service safety person” (my wife, who has been in food service well over 25 yrs.) tends to agree that hotter is better, but is talking that 140F. mark thing! A low and slow (cooking ground meat, like a hot dish or sloppy joes in a crock pot for example)maintains way less then 140F. for way too long. That is a NO NO!
99.9% of safe cooking, is safe handling. Don’t cross contaminate, wash everything (don’t forget your hands) often and it’s a good idea (and recommended) to rinse your bird, inside and out, too. I have even been known to use a little white vineger to give a good rinse of the cavity! It won't leave a lasting taste with just a rinse.
With all that said...
OTOH, I don’t even roast a turkey that is stuffed, in the oven! And, would NEVER do so on the Egg (or other kettle / drum type cooker) in a slow smoke method! That really would be asking for some trouble!
I love dressing and make it often, but it is always in a roaster and in the oven at 350F.
Food poisoning is NOT any fun what so ever