Slow & Max Temp Problems - Continued

Grandpas Grub

I still have a couple more tests to complete before sharing some ideas and the test results.

My last test on the medium, I lit the egg with nothing covering the lower vent and no DFMT, egg wide open.

The temp rise was interesting. What I want to share here is that after 1hr 7 minutes the max temp of the egg was 460° which in my mind is very poor performance for the high temp range.

I premade my foil 'rope/plug' put on some welders gloves and plugged the gap between the fire ring and the inside of the egg base.

No changes to the vents and in 2 minutes the egg jumped to 500°. 7 minutes later 540°.

By just plugging the air gap around the outside of the fire ring I got an 80° improvement in temp.

I realize a lot of users are getting much higher temps out of their mediums & small's.

Disclaimer:
These posts are not to beat up on these sizes but to resolve a problem I have and some other eggers are experencing with the Medium's and Small's.

GG

civil eggineer

I own a medium egg and numerous times after lighting I am near 700 degrees within 15 minutes or so. So much so I never leave it unattended for long during warm up or will close the air grates to where I think they should be given the target temp. I would rather bring the egg up to cooking temperatures gradually then a sudden blast of heat. It takes awhile for the ceramics to warm up and until that happens you will have a harder time regulating temperatures.

Sundown

I missed the front end of the tread you refer to but, I went out an looked at my large.

There's a 1/2+" space around my firebox and the side of the Egg. I can achieve lava temps almost anytime. Those rare times I can't I've found the CI grate has been seriously plugged up with small pieces of lump. (I know this because I took all of the lump out very carefully to see what could be the problem.)

I do not have a medium or a small but something occurs to me.

Look at your problem from the prospective of the fire and how you build it. Suppose you were to build using larger pieces in the bottom blah blah.

Your CI fire grates have fewer holes and if any more than a few get plugged it could make a difference.

Just an idea.

Grandpas Grub

Thanks for the information.

I am glad your medium and many other medium's are performing so well - I wish mine were.

Nevertheless, mine and other are not and thus, the threds, comments and questions?

I do have some questions for you. When you get these results...

. How full do your fill your lump
. How do you build your lump
. New lump & lump sizes or some new and & some old lump
. How are you lighting your lump & how many spots

Thanks, GG

gdenby

There is something strange going on here, I have 2 mediums. With the bottom vent completely open, and the daisy off, once in awhile it will take 30 - 40 minutes to reach 250. After that, the dome temperature accelerates to 750+ in less than 10 minutes. Usually, at 15 minutes, the Egg begins to race to maximum. I've had a few occassions when at 20 minutes I've reached 800.

The only times I've been unable to break 500 were when the Egg had sat for 3 days in frequent rain storms. On one occassion, drops of moisture sweated from it for half an hour.

Hope this helps.

Grandpas Grub

With that small amount of gap I would expect you would have very good performance with the large.

In my large I have excelent performance with start up and with being able to achieve high temps.

The type of lump, new or from previous cooks, affect the speed of lighting and the higher temps somewhat but not enough to be a real problem.

On the medium tests there is no grid being used.

GG

PhilsGrill

Not sure what the problem is here with the medium. My buddy has a medium and can get it to 500 degrees within 15 mins, no problem. He can't really leave it unattended.

I fired up my new small last night for the first time for some quick hot dogs and it got to 450 in about 15 mins.

Have you checked your thermometer?

Grandpas Grub

gdenby,

In most of my eggs the slower temp climb to about 300° is pretty common followed by the quick jump. I have noticed once the lump stops smoldering and there is enough air flow to allow flame with the dome close is when the spike really happens.

At the times you achieve high temps do you use any previous cooked with lump, how do you build you lump for the cook and how are you lighting your egg?

Thanks, GG

Grandpas Grub

Thermometer's calibrated and swapped between eggs just incase.

Consistant problem on my medium and somewhat on my small. My large & mini performs fantastic.

I believe the majority of my problem is the outside diameter of the fire ring. I have what seems to be a unusually large gap from the outside of the firering and the inside of the egg.

My last test, the medium, with no restriction on either vent after 1hr 7 minutes max temp was 460° - not very good performance on that test.

Later on today I am going to do a test with that gap completly closed down and then a follow up test with the gap closed down about 75%.

GG

PhilsGrill

Pull the firebox all the way forward and push the fire ring all the way to the back and try. This 'should' close of most of the air around the sides.

The Naked Whiz

Yeah, I use my medium for max temp testing. I routinely get it to 1000+ degrees. Now based on what you said, I have a theory. If air is going up the sides of the fire box and then up outside the fire ring, that air isn't feeding the fire. My fire ring is much smaller than the outer shell (GRRR! My only pet peeve) but I think the firebox fits relatively closely to the sides. I'll check tomorrow when I do a new review. If the firebox is snug, then air would tend to come up the sides and would have to come up through the charcoal.....

Rick's Tropical Delight

i think it's all dependant on the lump charcoal.

not getting hot enough quickly? stir the top of the coals to form a lower spot in the middle. sometime the fire will grow down right away and get shielded by lump on the top. wide open with no top, you should be getting flames. open the dome a few times and let the flame ignite. a flame makes for a much better draft than a smoldering fire

the size and moisture content of the lump will affect the temperature rise. my medium can get to 700 in 25 minutes depending on how i structure the lump in the firebox.

stike

RTD makes a good point.

my small, when new, got to 700 quicker than my large ever did.

well, the egg didn't change.. so what was the difference? when the small was new, it was clean, and i used cowboy lump. it's light, and burns quick.

the reasons my small is slower to light than my large is 1.) that the lump in it sits from cook to cook, and picks up moisture. that, and 2.) it is VERY susceptible to ash impeding the air flow. i don't clean it as much as i should. it's a miser with lump, but the smallest amount of ash will reduce airflow quite a bit more than the same amount of ash in a large.

that said, i think you are a frigging GENIUS for investigating the airflow issue. increasing airflow will of course help get to temp. i don't disagree. i drilled out my firebox with a 1" drill, and bored out the lower vent so that it is an inch wider. no improvement.

i think your idea to clog the gap is brilliant. it was sapping airflow from the lower vent i guess, right/ and now there's no place to go nbut through the lump.

i mentioned this earlier, and maybe it got lost... but the older kamados actually had their fireboxes mortared into place. ..which means that the gap around them was filled.

how soon before one of us plugs the gap in the large and finds out how high it can truly go?

Grandpas Grub

I am just getting ready to go out and do antoher medium test. I didn't think to look at the firebox itself and will do so.

My gasket is new on the medium so just in case I have been shutting the medium down when the temp stalls at any given temp for 15 to 20 minutes or so and stop the test at 650° if it even gets that high.

I am going to tightly plug the fire ring gap on this next test. However, I am wondering if it would be better to plug the gap at the fire box level. Air going into the fire box vents would be a benifit.

I have also been thinking about drilling more air vent holes a little higher in the fire box. That would create potential warranty problems but I really want to get the medium to where I think it should be preforming.

Just thinking outloud I guess.

GG

Grandpas Grub

Rick,

The moisture out here I don't think is a real problem, we are in the high desert, usually 15 to 28 percent. But I have given that some thought.

Making a lower center height might be a very good idea.

All my test have been with using napkin/oil just to keep things even in the tests.

It can easily take me 25 to 40 minutes to get the medium to 350°. Some of tests the max temp has been 460°. My small has a pretty large fire ring gap and some of the max temps on that have been 550° after 55 minutes. (same lighting as the medium).

I have 2 more tests to run plus I think I will do another with your lower center of the lump as a test.

Kent

Rick's Tropical Delight

it's an interested experiment, but i'm not sold on the "fill in the gap" thing. don't you think the natural draft is going to pull the majority of the air through the hobbit hole and up through the lump? i think the egg needs that slight airflow around the outside just to even things out. that air is heated by the ceramic firebox and firering and the dome and base. a blower in the bottom seems to have a direct effect soooo.

hey, maybe we can get wiley to install some air flow meters :woohoo:

Grandpas Grub

stike,

I did see the post about the seal and thank you for mentioning that and also for letting us know you have tested drilling large air holes in the fire box.

What is interesting is that you didn't see any improvement. I would think that should have made some difference.

Using the lump from a previous cook is a factor and . I am trying to determine how much of a factor. On my large for the most part it doesn't seem to be a real problem unless I am going to sear or high temp pizza.

It seems logical the answer is that more air has to get directly to the lump.

This medium egg of mine seems to love to get to the 300 - 350 degree level and is happy as can be to hover there for a good hour before climbing, it does even climb after that.

I do clear out the leftover ash as best as possible and clear out all bottom vent holes before each cook. Most of the time I try to add new & larger lump sizes at the fire grate then the old lump on top of that.

In a previous post I mentioned that at 460° (just over an hour of burning) in the medium I plugged the gap and no other changes in 9 minutes the egg temp climbed to 540° and stalled there.

Just a quick not to newer folk and prospective buyers this problem is something to do with my specific egg and is in no way typical of other members eggs. A handful of people are having this type of problem and I am simply searching for an understanding of why this egg is acting different and what changes I need to make.

I hope this us useful to other members as well.

Kent

Beanie-Bean

Kent,

I opened a brand new bag of Royal Oak, and the temp on my SBGE got hung up around 500°. After putting in a foil ring around the edge (I have a pretty big gap between the fire ring and the bottom shell) I got it up to 600 °. There was a post earlier about pulling the firebox close on one side and pushing the fire ring back in the opposite direction to minimize the air gaps--I'll be trying that next time.

i generally take the SBGE all the way apart and there is no ash left when I reload. When I first got the cooker in January, it would get to 700° with very little effort. Now, it's a challenge to get it hot enough to sear steaks for a TRex. I'll keep an eye on your posts, and will report back results of my own.

I'm so happy--another excuse to go out and cook another "experiment."

Rick's Tropical Delight

you said it right there, used lump. when you put the used lump on the top, it creates a barrier to the flames. make a hole to the fresh lump and watch what happens. (or use fresh lump only)

Grandpas Grub

LOL... 'Wiley'????

Any air going into the egg and not directly to the lump is going to affect temp, IMO. In one test I have show a direct 80° increase in a 9 minute period after blocking that side air flow.

I very much wonder, and am concerned, about blocking the airflow outside of the fire box/fire ring. That is a very effective way to insulate the outer egg wall and protect it from higher temps.

I should be able to add some more information about this in a couple of hours. I am going to completly seal the gap and do a burn with nothing but new load of lump.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

I am doing the 'fresh' in a little while. I do expect better performance.

I also like the idea of new lump up the center and possibly using already use lump around that center spot.

I am going to play with both, new and making the hole.

Thanks for the input.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

stike,

Another thought is the cowboy lump. We all experience burning hotter and faster.

Thinking about that, cowboy lump is usually plank rather than chunks. The planks won't settle and I think has less opportunity to block air flow.

The more gap between the pieces of lump will create better air flow, resulting in higher temps and faster using of the fuel. I would also suspect that the plank's would allow less overall lump to be put inside of any given egg.

I will go to lowes and pick up a couple of bags of cowboy and test that also.

That might turn out to be interesting in getting a better light and higher temps. Great yet another test to do.

Thanks, Kent

Rick's Tropical Delight

be careful out there, man!

some things are just supposed to be they are. 3,000 years of experience went into that contraption. the last person that tried what you are doing hasn't been seen in 250 years!

stike

cowboy is also less dense...

i keep a mix on hand. cowboy for fast cooks, and BGE/RO for lo and slo. though BGE/RO works well for both. usually it has big chunks, which provide plenty of airflow for searing temps. cowboy is just cheaper.'

...cowboy is just fine for lo and slow, too. but my alle liebster is Royal Oak

Grandpas Grub

It is getting pretty hard for me on these tests. I don't want to fire up an egg without cooking something.

I really would like to hear about your front/back test.

I am going to do a test with all new lump and as large of lump as I have the a second test with Cowboy.

Stike mentioned on one of his first cooks he had he got high temps with cowboy. Often we get posts from peoply saying Cowboy burns hotter and quicker.

When reading stikes post a second time I got to thinking of the shape of Cowboy and how much loose space there is in the fire box. That would obviously create more air flow, resulting in hotter burns and the more space would allow less lump resulting in what seems like a faster burn rate.

I don't have any scale which would lend itself to weighing the amount of lump that could be loaded into and egg. However, it would be interesting to know if less Cowboy could be loaded as apposed to Royal Oak.

Possibly the actual burn time for a given weight of Cowboy would be close to the same weight of Royal Oak or even a different brand of lump.

My wife is laughing at me. She just said all this is just an excuse to play with the eggs more.

Kent

Rick's Tropical Delight

get a weed burner and all your problems will be over.
i can get the fire burning deep in side the pile, and quick

Grandpas Grub

Don't spoil my fun now.

However, when an egg won't normally get above 360° after an hour something has to be looked at.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

I like RO/BGE best also.

When you say large chunks what size are you talking about.

If I find a piece that is the 1/2 the size of a clenched fist that is large. I very seldom get a piece that is much bigger than 3/4 the size of a clenched fist.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

I have one but generally use it in the winter when it is cold.

Maybe that is the easiest solution?

Kent

Rick's Tropical Delight

yep, that's not right

stike

well... if you get and end bag of RO, there are 3 or 4 pieces in there about 8 to 12 inches long, 4, 5 inches wide.


if you've ever seen Dirty Jobs on the ****-scovery channel, they had an episode where he worked at a charcoal manufacturing company. charcoal is like a box of corn flakes. the biggest pieces rise to the top. so i think either the beginning or end of the bagging procedure (from a batch of charcoal) will yield bags of superlative size.

sometimes they are too big, to be true. you need to bust them up.

i'll tell you though, it's an interesting thing... here we are, on the BGE forum, debating the virtues of not only one brand of charcoal versus another, but the virtues of one type of charcoal versus another bag of the same brand.

how frigging esoteric have we become when we say "oh, is it Argentinian Royal Oak, or is it American Royal Oak?'

again, it's a nice position to be in. lotta people tonight are going to bed hungry. here we are trying to figure out the best way to get our eggs to 650 instead of 600.

again, though. not an understatement... a sh!tload of eggs have been sold n the past 30 or 40 years. i think yer the only dude to have consciously thought of plugging the gap twixt the firebox and the shell in order to boost airflow. there are a lot of smart people on this forum, even smarter me and you. (that was supposed to be self-effacing. as conceited as we NE-glanders are, we still are generally more self-effacing than the rest of you sunsab!atches!) but i think you have really stumbled on something