need better forums

Unknown

New egg owner here. Came over to the forums to see if I could glean some info and was just underwhelmed by the experience. One forum for all questions? How is someone supposed to find something (don't suggest search, because that's only one aspect of the user experience)

At a minimum, you should probably consider something like:

Eggs and accessories: for egg-related questions, presales, etc.
Cooking: using your egg
Recipes: where users can post recipes
Off-topic: meet-ups, etc.
Forum Help and Feedback

This way, users can get right to info that they might feel useful.

Do you even realize that when a new user goes to http://www.eggheadforum.com that they might not even realize that there actually are forum postings at the bottom of the page? I went to that link about probably a dozen times before I even thought to scroll down past what I consider ads. Stupidly, I looked and looked and looked and finally found that little, little, link at the top left, next to some view setting that took me to the forums themselves.

And the color scheme is, frankly, a visual assault. I saw a post from WMK that says red and green are contrasting color, but nowhere in my years of experience in software usability does anyone make the argument that should be a good thing for reading text. In fact, most appealing and useful UI's use 1 or 2 colors. I won't even go into how many different font sizes can be found on a single page or how the stylesheets break between pages.

Get some new software, a better designer/developer and some forum moderators and you'll be able to take advantage of the vast enthusiasm of your users.

WMK

shadesofjay,

This may change over time, but many (at last check most) of our users prefer the "social" nature of the forum the way it is. I.e. they don't want to have go into a bunch of little "rooms", as they called categories like you suggest, to see what's being posted so they can answer questions. Their feeling is that would be "fence building".

On the other hand, we have double the number of posts every day that we used to have; so, it may be that we'll be forced to find some middle ground for these issues. Perhaps an all-in-one view, like we have, plus more categories for those that prefer that type of organization.

And there is always the issue of which category does a question belong. For example, given the categories you suggest, would a question about how to use a plate setter go into "Using your egg", or, "Eggs and accessories". The more categories you have, the more likely such difficulties will arise. We already get forum questions in the main forum and cooking related questions in forum feedback and they distinction there is pretty easy.

There is already is recipe section, not a forum category, but an actual recipe component where our users can posts recipes.

Both the forum and the recipe section can be searched independently, or, simultaneously via the site search. The new template, mentioned above, will make these feature more accessible.

As to the font sizes, colors, etc., the ones we have came historically from the original forum which is what created this community; so, while it may not be perfect, it has worked quite well for over ten years. Moreover, we are working on a new template, nearly ready to deploy now, that addresses some of these issues; however, no doubt that no matter what font(s) we choose, what colors we choose, and whatever else we do or do not do, somebody will find something to complain about.

Unknown

Sorry you feel my comments were complaints. In fact, I have going on nearly 20 years of experience building forums and Web User Experience and lead a practice of 30 people building collaboration solutions. All I know is that scrolling through the first page of the forums reveals a way too high proportion of can't use the site to actual egg topics. This is not going to be a place I will spend much time, unfortunately.

I think part of the problem is your software, JoomlaBoards?, but nonetheless I hope your new template fixes the navigation, layout, and branding issues.

Good luck.

WMK

shadesofjay,

If you found that most of the posts were about site topics, that's likely because you were looking at the "Forum Feedback" category and not "Eggheadforum" which is where our members talk about Egg related topics. I guess that just shows that categories can be confusing -- even to someone with 20 years experience with forums and such. That's what supposed to be there, questions and problems with the forum, most of which have to do with users that missed their confirmation email, which actually has nothing whatever to do with the forum software.

The forum we selected is certainly not perfect, but since at the time we had $0 for a budget; and, still have an *extremely* limited one (it doesn't even pay for the time required to answer the posts in "Forum Feedback"), we chose one that cost nothing and permitted us to customize it to our members' taste (at least those that we had at the time). We get 10 - 20 new members every day, so their tastes are likely changing rapidly. For example, many have now never even seen the old forum which was based on "Matt's script archive" -- an ancient format indeed. But nonetheless, they liked it; so, we added the "classic" view to Joomlaboard (Simpleboard at the time) to address their preferences.

There is still much room for improvement, and, we continue to address issues as we have time.

If you find the forum software so bad that you cannot use it, that is indeed unfortunate. But it appears that the 3000+ members we already have at least can work with it as is until we find the time to improve whatever issues they may have. Of course, since we do have to pay our bills, and working on this forum doesn't do that, it will take some time for that to happen. Does your group of 30 folks work for nothing? If so, then perhaps you and they could help.

RRP

Well said, WMK! I am always amazed when a new person comes on board and tells the other 3,000 of us how stupid, backward etc we are! It's akin to moving into a new neighborhood and immediately picking a fight with everybody!

Personally the beauty of "our" board is the free flowing nature of topics - I hate the pigeon hole format of others and seldom EVER go them!

Keep up the good work! Yours were professional and courteous replies.

WMK

RRP,

Thank you for your support -- it's nice to hear something, well, nice.
I know things aren't perfect yet, but we'll keep trying to improve them over time.

Unknown

Well, it does cost you money since I returned my BGE because 1. it didn't come with any instructions and 2. I found nothing useful in this forum that didn't require wading through tons of unuseful information. I never even found a way to search.

This is not neighnorhood, it's a business. If you think it's a neighborhood, and people shouldn't have expectations of the product and support for it, I really wish I had something to sell you. I don't pay nearly a thousand dollars for something and then basically get no support.

I didn't come here to offend members of a community, I came here to provide solid, valuable information on why the comany is failing to keep it's customers. If they're not interested in that, I wish them the best of luck.

Rusty Rooster

The GREAT majority of us quietly appreciate what you do for us and not often enough thank you.
Tom

WMK

shadesofjay,

It's your loss.

F.Y.I. I don't get any profit sharing from BGE sales, so, it most definitely isn't my loss. I don't get paid enough even to do what I do, much less deal with junk like this.

If you don't like our forum, which, whether you like it or not, IS a community of satisfied BGE customers happily sharing their experiences with one another, and, helping one other to get the most from their BGE, then fine -- so be it.

The folks here are all BGE customers -- very nearly none of the questions are answered by BGE employees, or, by anyone with a vested interest in BGE sales. Instead, unlike most businesses, BGE customers help each other because they want to. They would have helped you too if you had asked nicely for help instead of complaining and talking about knowing so much better how things should be run here. That's not the best way to win friends and influence people in my experience.

From what I've seen on the forum, BGE product support is excellent. You could have called them for direct support also, but most choose simply to post their questions here; and, most get an answer within a few minutes (assuming they ask politely). This thread, http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=464024&catid=1, is a good example. Note that the first answer was posted only one minute after the question was asked.

"I came here to provide solid, valuable information on why the comany is failing to keep it's customers". I think that statement clearly indicates why you failed to get any help on this forum. You don't understand it. It is quite different from a "standard" product support forum operated by company support personnel. Perhaps they should start a new support forum, on biggreenegg.com, just for you, and those like you.

Whether you realize it or not, BGE is not failing to keep its customers. Oh, I'm sure sure they've lost a few over the years, and, that they would rather have kept you as a customer too. But regardless, nobody, and no company, can please everybody -- not even BGE.

I, and I'm sure BGE too, wishes you the best of luck as well.

stike

most people find it easier to just ask a question, and let the collective minds try to solve the issue.

you are correct, this site isn't set up for someone to parachute in, navigate to a folder in a folder in a folder for a previously answered question, and then jump back out.

frankly, the methods here change and develop over time, and it works much better for most folks to simply ask a question then sit back and receive five answers or more, all slightly different, but each one moving the thing forward.

Chad

WMK and other moderators,

Not trying to stir the pot too much, as I love my egg and this forum has been of help to me.

Have you guys looked at using v.bullitin software.

I believe $180 will buy the software, 1 license and updates for a year, then its only like $50 a year for updates there after. If you wanted more than 1 person able to make forum changes (aka administrators) then you can purchase additional licenses.

This would potentially fix many of the issues people ask about. Pictures, searches, forum layout.

There are also many features what are included that could be very beneficial to this community.

I must note I have no affiliation with the v.bullitin company.

As a happy egger I have heard from many others who refuse to visit this site due to forum layout, and have had many issues with finding what they need. I must agree this forum isn't very user friendly.

I know I only joined a few months ago, but I know I'd be on here more that just lurking for new ideas and searching for help if the forum layout was more intuitive like the v.bullitin forums I frequent.

I do appreciate all of the work you guys do making this site work, I just wonder if there is an easier way. I'm sure many people here would donate $1-5 a piece (if not more) to purchase a premade and tested forum layout.

Chad

I forgot to add that to assist with funding you could easily incorporate non intrusive vendor advertisements onto the forum, or even google or yahoo ads at the top or bottom.

While I have no experience implementing a forum, I would be more than willing donating some of my time to assist you with any tasks needed for forum improvement.

Thanks for your work.

WMK

Chad,

We found, when we first began the effort for the "new forum" (the old one was based upon the venerable Matt's script archive), that stand alone forum packages, like VBullitin and phpbb, are just that, "stand alone". I.e. they didn't, at that time (three+ years ago) integrate well with other components, like recipes and image galleries. Moreover, at that time, the site was biggreenegg.com, and needed to provide more information than just the forum; so, integration was even more important.

It's important to remember that this forum is not, nor has it ever been, a support forum. It is, as the header graphic says, an "online community". The folks here enjoy sharing their eggsperiences with one another; and, they also bend over backwards to help each other. But, as I said to shadesofjay, almost none of the questions here are answered by BGE employees as would be expected for a "support" forum. Since the folks here are not employed by BGE, they have no obligation to support its customers. What support may be found here, which is in fact extensive, is purely voluntary enthusiasm for BGE products and the delicious morsels produced thereon.

Many of the folks here that answer questions (some have posted thousands of times) like the forum the way it is. Though, even they I'm sure would agree that there is room for improvement. The search feature is certainly a candidate in that regard.

We have accumulated so many messages over the years that the current search feature is literally overwhelmed with way too many results. Often, it never even finishes. But without purchasing and then investigating the search facilities of VBullitin, I cannot say whether it would do any better; and, even if we did, we'd still need to import all of the existing messages into VBullitin to find out (I'm sure it would work well for a while with few messages to search -- it takes time to create these kinds of problems).

Perhaps, given their rapid growth, BGE should consider purchasing VBullitin and installing it on biggreenegg.com to provide a pure support forum where questions would be answered by full-time BGE employees; and, "off topic" posts would simply be removed. That is the type of forum that many have grown to expect for product support; however, that is not the nature of this forum. Such a forum would certainly not replace this one, but it might be more what "newbies" these days might expect from a support forum. This might be a better use for VBullitin than using it to replace this forum.

Chad

Thanks for the reply.

I defiantly understand what you're saying. There is a lot of work that goes along with creating and maintaining a forum. Being only volunteer based makes it that much more difficult.

Personally, I didn't ever expect this to be a BGE support forum. I knew when I started browsing that this was a community that was run independently from the mothership. I came here with the same understanding as with my other forums that the community makes or breaks the site and learning from the people on here is what counts.
I don't go to my photography forum expecting to hear from Canon reps, I want to hear from friends about their own experiences.

This site does have a great togetherness, I was at the OK eggfest and could tell this is a great group of people.

I suggested V.bullitin because it promotes the splitting of threads into separate subject groups. An easy example would be have a section for Pictures, Recipies, Beef, Fish, Poultry, OT etc.

That way when a person looks for a new Briscuit recipe or assistance they can search specifically under "beef" and "recipies" rather than having to search every post on the forum.
It would tax the server(s) less than the current method and with better search methods it would lower the number of having the same post occurring weekly on the same subject (thus improving performance)

I understand why people like having one section with everything being posted within it, but some of the problems you mention occur because of that method.

an example of what I am referring to is this site. This is run by an online acquaintance of mine.
http://www.newschoolofphotography.com/forum/

This is a photog forum I frequent. I would think a similar layout would not only improve the forum speed and response, but also promote more users, better organization and with the use of basic advertising could pay for itself, and even bring in a small profit with time.

again, I'm saying this will full respect towards you and the site.
I suggest this only for the betterment of the community.

[Deleted User]

"I understand why people like having one section with everything being posted within it, but some of the problems you mention occur because of that method."

I'm not quite so sure the 3500+ members of this forum would agree with you that they would prefer a more "compartmentalized" approach.

Besides, WMK and I are both experienced programmers, we will, as we have with this upgrade to the forum, address the needs of our members.

WMK

Chad,

This forum does support categories, and, we created several when we first installed it. Our users at the time hated it.

We've thought of that -- i.e. that a category specific search might help to alleviate some of the overwhelming results that searches often return. However, as WPB said, many of our members, and many of them the ones answering the questions to start with, do not want to have to wade through a bunch of categories to see if there are any questions they might answer. They like a single index with a conversational "flow" rather than a collection of separate rooms where folks interested in specific topics would "congregate".

Also, just with the couple of categories you mentioned, where would a beef recipe be posted. In the "beef" category, or, the "recipe" category? We already have a recipe component, "Cookbook", in the main menu; so, we'd prefer if folks would post their recipes there rather than on the forum. And, moving forward, we intend, as time permits, to integrate the recipe component with the forum -- i.e. one could post a recipe on the forum that would also add to the cookbook section (which does have a number of categories like "beef", etc.) "Canned" packages like VBullitin do not have these features. It's the classic filing problem, where do the "car insurance" documents go, into the "automobile" file, or, the "insurance" file.

And even with the two clearly distinct categories that we do have, it often happens that folks post forum questions in the main forum, or, food and Egg related questions under "Forum Feedback". Creating more categories would certainly make this more common.

Then there is the thousands of un-categorized messages already in the "archives". Somebody would have to wade through all of them and move them into the new categories -- this would be a bunch of work. We have considered a method similar to this -- i.e. continue to post in the "main" category, but move posts at some point to facilitate searching. This is also a lot of work.

Or, we've also considered providing the best of both -- i.e. continue to provide a view of all messages like the current index, but also add various categories and a selection box for the category for new posts. This doesn't solve the "which category" problem though, but at least it would allow posts to be grouped w/out requiring that folks look into each "room" to find new posts.

Installing VBullitin really wouldn't address any of these issues. As I said, this forum already supports categories, but our users didn't like them. We can add new views over time as well based upon what we see in other forums that we like w/out giving up what we have (e.g. the "classic" view that many like).

As I said in a couple of other posts, perhaps BGE might consider installing VBullitin as a "support" forum. That wouldn't require importing all of the existing messages; and, they could set up whatever categories the think they need. They could of course refer questions to this forum whenever that might make sense as well. I've no idea whether they will do anything like that or not, but it makes more sense than expecting this forum to provide all things to all people. Despite all our efforts (largely uncompensated) it just doesn't seem possible to be all things to all people.

Chad

WPB wrote:

Besides, WMK and I are both experienced programmers, we will, as we have with this upgrade to the forum, address the needs of our members.

I wasn't trying to insult you. I was asking because I hadn't found an answer, and the OP was ridiculed when asking about the forum layout, and then rightly so for criticizing the egg or the community around it.

I'm sorry you felt my questions and statements were a personal attack, it wasn't meant that way.

Personally, I think that by asking these questions only help further build the community and starts getting positive changes in motion. I did mention I was pretty new to the forum, thus not knowing what the majority here likes. So I brought my outside experience with some of the largest online communities and how things are done, along with some other smaller communities and how they handle their site.

This one is unique in the way things are done and I wondered why things were done this way. I didn't feel asking about why it was done this way was wrong, or a personal attack. Again sorry if you felt it was.


WMK,
I appreciate your responses. They give a much better picture of why you have it the way it is.

Thanks,
-Chad

[Deleted User]

Chad,

I didn't take anything you said as a "personal attack".

We have a devoted membership here and we try to cater to their needs and requests.

We just recently (in the past two days) rolled out the new forum template... which I think most people are pleased with, if the poll results hold true.

Sure there's room for improvement, but we are always working to incoporate suggestions and features to improve the user experience.