Boston Butt - Why 195 degree internal temp? Starting it tonight

spbull472

So everywhere i look on the forums people talk about cooking their butts to an internal temp of 195 (man its hard to say without laughing).[p]Anyway, the butcher tells me I only need to reach 160 as did the local egg dealer. So why the huge difference in internal temps, I know hitting at least 160 will be safe to eat. But why take it all the way up to 195 and risk drying it out?[p]I'm going to make my first attempt tonight and thought I would ask before proceeding.[p]Thanks.

Unknown

spbull472,
You'll have a tough time pulling it at 160. Low and slow until 195 to 200 it will not be dry at all and will practically pull itself.

spbull472

Brunomax,[p]While I would pull at 160, the meat would continue to cook to about 165 to 175. After taking off the heat I would be wrapping it in foil.[p]Also, would that be truer if I reached that time in a short span via high heat versus a lo' and slow cook to hit approx 160/165 internal?[p]Thanks.

thirdeye

<p />spbull472,[p]The high temps over a long period of time render the fat and allow for the conversion of collagen to gelatin, which creates/releases the moisture so prized by pit bosses. The meat will truly become pullable verses sliceable as it would be at 165°. I'd take a go-plate to your butcher, so he understands what barbecue is all about.[p]~thirdeye~

thirdeye

Check That........should say "the high internal temps reached over a long period of cooking time"....[p]~thirdeye~

Car Wash Mike

thirdeye,
What you said. You know, there are not many meat cutters out there anymore. To many butchers.[p]Be care, they may keep you for a cook. [p]Mike

spbull472

All,[p]Thanks I'll give it a shot, I guess the worse thing that happens is I screw up $12 of meat. Hell I drink that much money away in a much shorter period of time. [p]STL Scott

stike

spbull472,
you aren't just cooking it, you are physically converting collagen to gelatin, which will actually ADD moisture to the meat. this doesn't occur quickly.[p]it's a perverse thing. when you take it to 160, it's cooked , still moist, but tough. when you let it go further, it technically loses the moisture, but the toughness (due to collagen ) is lost. that collagen breaks down, the meat falls apart, and the gelatin makes the meat feel moist again.[p]

Egg-N-Tino

spbull472,[p] Low and slow for butts is the way to go if you want authentic style pulled pork. Feel free to cook it to 160 as the butcher stated, but you will be left asking yourself "Should I have listened to the forum folks"!! The longer you leave it on the egg, the better it gets. SERIOUSLY. I have cooked a 8.5lb butt for 20 hours. It was 'done' around the 17th hour, but I just let it go to see what it would do. Had an awesome 'bark' on it and the bone pulled right out of the meat (as usual). Do not worry about drying out the butt, ALOT of fat runs through it to keep it moist.
[p] Only way YOU will know for sure is to do another in a week and see which one YOU like. [p]Good luck,
Egg-N-Tino

Unknown

<p />spbull472,
sometime you just have to feel your butt and wiggle the bone to see if it's ready... some butts are pullable well before 195; this one was. some get mushy if you take them too high and foil and cooler too long.[p]

spbull472

All,[p]I will try the forum way! Like I said in another response it's only $12 bucks. One last question:[p]1) platesetter legs up, grill grid, butt[p]- or -[p]2) platesetter legs up, grill grid, raised grid (5"), butt[p]??[p]Thanks in advance.

Egg-N-Tino

spbull472,

No raised grid for the butt.[p]Egg-N-Tino

fonchik

spbull472,
1) platesetter legs up, grill grid, butt
You need to add a drip pan between the platesetter and the grid to catch all the drippings and prevent yucky smoke.[p]HTH[p]~~ Linnea

thirdeye

spbull472,[p]Plate setter legs up, foil lined drip pan on plate setter, cooking grid sitting on legs.[p]~thirdeye~

Unknown

thirdeye,
i use those disposable aluminum pizza pans. they fit in the medium plate setter perfectly. if you go around the rim and bend it up, it increases the capacity of the drip pan. 17 pounds of butt and it didn't overflow.

spbull472

Thanks All![p]Will be taking before and after pictures and should be posting those sometime tomorrow. Let's see if I can do the pics justice like RTD![p]Gonna have to pull out my Nikon D70s and SB-800 speedlight! OMG, am I really going to take pictures of food?[p]Thanks again all,[p]STL Scott

Unknown

spbull472,
just be careful... don't let it become an obsession![p]the food porn anonymous meetings are on tuesday!

jwirlwind

spbull472,
Obviously, you have never had pulled pork or a pulled pork sandwitch. If you take the meat off at or below 170, you will be able to slice it but not pull it apart. You will also experience dryer meat. Listen to the forum and you will learn to cook. Otherwise, you will be an average Joe with a superb cooking maching. Pull the butt off the Egg around 195-200 internal. Cooked inderect. [p]Chef Jerry

tjv

spbull472, I prefer the scientific answer, just replace velocity of light with grid temp. Works for me everytime......LOL[p]Dang, missing happy hour.....see ya. T

[ul][li]http://www.friesian.com/separat.htm[/ul]

The Naked Whiz

spbull472,
So far no one has told you about the plateau. Your butt will climb alarmingly fast to 160-170 degrees and you will worry that it will be done way too soon. However, at 160-170 degrees, the butt temperature will level off and may even drop a few degrees. It will stay there in that range for hours and hours. This is when the collagen is being converted to gelatin. You don't want to rush the butt through this period. You want to let the butt take its own sweet time so the conversion can take place as completely as possible. When the conversion is done, the butt will slowly start climbing again until it hits your desired temperature. Many first timers worry themselves when their butt hits the plateau, so don't worry. (If you want to know why this happens, think fractional distillation. If you don't remember that from high school, never mind, LOL!)[p]TNW

stike

The Naked Whiz,
since we're discussing a single large, complex molecule, we're talking more about a "phase change" (though that's not quite right either) than we are "fractional distillation". but who am i to go toe-to-toe with the whiz![p]heh heh heh

spbull472

Jwirlwind,[p]Oh contraire, I have had pulled pork and pulled pork sandwiches. I'm a HUGE FAN of pulled pork. However, I've NEVER made them. Eating them and making them from the butt stage are two different things. I eat them very well, now with all this information we'll see if I can cook them too.[p]However, the skies have opened tonight and we now have thunderstorms. This may have to wait until early morning if it doesn't clear out in the next couple of hours.[p]STL Scott

The Naked Whiz

stike,
I said "think fractional distillation" not "it is fractional distillation". Heck, I have no idea what is going on in there, LOL! But it's sorta like the same thing. When you heat a mixture of liquids and the mixture gets up to the boiling point of one of the liquids, then all the heat goes into the phase change of that liquid to gas and the temperature stops rising. Right? When the liquid is all gone, then the temperature starts rising again. Sorta like that, right? [p]TNW

The Naked Whiz

spbull472,
I was going to do some butts tonight, but too many storms and I'm not ready. So, I'll play with charcoal instead.[p]TNW

Wise One

spbull472, dr bbq posted this a long time ago. I try tohang onto good advice:
"Meat begins to break down at 160 and begins to seriously lose moisture above 180. The trick is to keep it in this range for as long as possible. When you cook a butt or brisket, the ultimate temp isn't near as important as the time spent in the desired range. Matter of fact you don't ever have to reach 200 if you stay at 180 long enough..."

So what you are saying is that it is not necessarily the final temp that renders the fat, but actually the time spent between 170 and 180? If that is true you should be able to really slow down the fire when the meat reaches about 165, and let it go real slow the rest of the way. I'm thinking of dropping the pit temp from 225 down to maybe 200? I wonder if you could use a higher temp early on in the cook to get things going also?
1 Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. My first introduction to this was a book by Charlie Knote called BBQ and Sausage making SECRETS or something like that. I think it's still pretty available. Matter of fact, Charlie was the guy who started that Culinary Institute of Smoke Cooking that is now a correspondence course. The problem with the corresponence course is that Old Charlie died a few years ago and he ain't corresponding with nobody these days. Not around here anyway. Buy the book, skip the course.
2 So Charlie taught us that meat (butts, shoulders, hogs and briskets)begins to break down and render at 160 and it begins to lose moisture at 180. So if you can keep the meat at 175 for a long time it would render, get nice and broke down tender but with very little moisture loss.
3 This is obviously very hard to do but with a little practice and a lot of patience it works very well. I think this is also what happens when you put a brisket in a warm cooler at 190 and leave it for a few hours. The meat quickly drops to about 180 but then probably stays in that desirable zone for another long stretch on the way down. You also have to remember that the outside of the meat is way above 180 early on but not in the ice chest.
4 As for raising the temp early, I wouldn't. This is a long and slow process and patience is a virtue.
5 I think the 225 and then dropping to 200 for a stretch and then raising back up to finish would be best. Watch the meat temp for guidance. The plateau will take forever but that's what you want. The urge is to wrap the meat or raise the temp but that's a shortcut that hurts the product.
[p]

stike

The Naked Whiz,
i'm glad yer not p!ssed. i was kidding, because "phase change" is about the only thing i remember from college prep Bio, and i was glad i could use it.[p]hahaha[p]glad you realize i wasn't trying to stump the wizard.[p]

spbull472

The Naked Whiz,[p]With 2 hours before I start, the rains have stopped. I have the fire box ready to go. Put the big pieces at the bottom, what few there were, and then built around them and up to the top of the fire box.[p]So now it's just a matter of waiting for 11pm to hit, start the fire and go. I am a little confused by the Elder Ward style, maybe I'm just reading it wrong. Paraphrasing.[p]"When the coals in the chimney are going good, or the fire place starter is burnt out and you have about a fist full of coals glowing you're ready...I prefer to use a single fist size piece of dry hickory placed dead center and on top of that little fist size of coals we just fired up. I think that too much smoke takes away from the delicate taste of pork and have found that this one piece will cold smoke the pork and leave a good size smoke ring in the meat because I'm going to place my pork on the grill now. If you're going to use a heat defector e.g. pizza stone and bottom rack, place them on now and put the fire ring in place. If you use the suspended type drip pan or the stones on top, do it.[p]Close the lid on Mr. Egg, open the bottom vent all the way and open Miss Daisy all the way. Let's stop here and explain why I have done it this way. The smoke will flavor the meat before the heat sears the meat and seals in the flavor. Since the fire is small, and Mr. Egg cool, we will get maximum smoke for a long time if the top vent is kept narrow (for those using slide metal vents).[p]Put your Polder probe half way into the thickest part of the meat. Place the main guest on a rack, pan or take him directly to the grill. I use the rack and a pan to keep the grease from dripping onto the fire/stone and causing excess smoke and flare ups. Now some put an amount of water or part of the Vinegar sauce in the bottom of the pan for moisture and flavor, not me. Lift the lid place the meat inside and close the lid. Plug in the polder and set the temperature alarm for 200°."[p]So he's got the fire started, then it appears he puts the meat on and closes the lid. Then without even saying to open the lid again, he talks about putting the thermometers in the meat and then putting the meat in the egg.[p]Wha..what? I thought the meat was already in the egg?[p]Can I just do this? Get the fire going, put on my smoking chunks, put the plate setter down, the drip pan down, the grid down and then the meat with the probes in it on. Wait for it to hit close to 225 and then start to regulate the vents. Sit, drink a beer, make sure it holds steady and then go to bed?[p]Thanks to anyone that may still be awake and reading the forum. [p]STL Scott[p]

Pork Butt Mike

Rick's Tropical Delight,
Sign me up for that Rick. I need to slow down on my cooking. My wife says I cook for an army and there is only two of us most of the time. I have so many vacuums pack BBQ's in the freezer it's getting out of hand.[p]
Pork Butt Mike

Jay

spbull472,
I think that is what the directions are trying to say...at least that is exactly how I have interpreted it. I plan to follow the exact plan that you have paraphrased.[p]I hope this goes well. I was telling a buddy about the egg tonight on the phone and he knew about it already but I could tell I had his absolute attention. It occured to me that buying the egg was like buyinga killer red Ferrari and I just hope I don't stall it when the light turns green! To many eyes upon me to not have something wonderful![p]Jay

Fidel

spbull472,[p]Get your temp stabilized with your plate setter, drip pan, and grid in the egg. Make sure it is stable for at least 30 minutes.[p]Then put your temp probe in the meat, open the lid, put meat in egg, shut lid, slowly walk away. Do not mess with vents AT ALL for at leat an hour. The cold meat and the opening of the dome will cause the temp to come down. Do not be tempted to mess with the vents. Allow the egg to do it's job. The temp will come back. If you mess with the vents you will have a tough time getting it stable again.[p]Check the temp every few hours, and if needed to get temp up make a very minor (i.e. 1/8" or less adjustment in the bottom vent) and then give it at least 30-45 minutes to come up a bit.[p]Good luck.....[p]

Jay

Fidel, I had the impression from Ward's direction's that getting the meat into the cold egg would allow more contact time with the smoke from the hickory and allow for a better smoke penetration into the pork... Do you think there is any validity to this or would the time required to get the temp stabalized this way offset any benifit?[p]Jay