last nights ribs cooked fast

fishlessman

<p />
i did these last night on a raised grill direct at about 285 degrees and they only took 3.5 hours. i usually cook them at 225 for about 6 hours. someone left them at camp and i dont know if they were water added. would that make the cook so much quicker, or was it just the higher temp of the grill, or because they were cooked direct. anyways they were still a little over cooked and fell off the bone with no tug. im liking the direct cook for ribs lately. probably could of pulled them off at the 3 hour mark

thirdeye

fishlessman,[p]It could have either of the variables or all three. Juiced ribs and higher pit temps will both cook faster. [p]As far as direct cooks, my BDS is a raised direct style cooker (the grates are about 25" from the coals) and it cooks about 30% faster when I am using the same pit temps (230° for ribs) as when cooking indirect on my large Egg. A full slab of spares takes 4 to 5 hours, a St. Louis trimmed rack only takes 3 or 4 hours. [p]~thirdeye~

Eggecutioner

fishlessman,[p]Fast or slow those look really tasty. I'm cooking a couple pork butts this weekend. I have also been thinking that I want to cook them a little faster. Maybe at 300 degrees for the whole time. I think your fast cook has made my decision. 300 degrees with apple and oak.[p]E

WessB

Eggecutioner,
You will be defying the whole point/purpose of a low and slow cook doing butts at 300°.....theres a reason buts make such awesome pulled pork, that being the process of low and slo...giving things the proper time to break down rendering the meat juicy,moist,tender and flavorful....if your gonna do 300° just to speed things up you might as well do 350° or 400° cause it aint gonna make good pulled pork anyway..more like a pork roast....the longer the pork rides in the plateau ( roughly 165° internal ) the more of the fat and coligen that renders out. If you race thruogh that part of the cook you defeat the whole purpose.....not trying to be mean or nasty at all, just stating a fact.[p]Wess

Eggecutioner

WessB,[p]Hey dude no offense taken. I appreciate being beat down when needed...LOL. That 300 degrees is dome temperature. which should calculate to 250ish grate temp. The pork I'm making is the Lechon Asado cuban pork with mojo sauce/marinate. I am not so concerned with having the pulled pork texture. I kinda like it chopped anyway. That being said do you still think that 300 degrees(dome) is still too hot? What if I race at 300 degrees to say 150 degrees internal and then shut it down to 250 dome (200 grate)? You still think that it won't render enough coligen? I have so many what if's![p]E

thirdeye

Eggecutioner,[p]Even though 300° is just a bit higher than the pit temps many folks use, you need to use some caution when "fast cooking" barbecue because the results are not as predictable as the traditional lo-n-slo methods. Fast cooking has been openly talked about for 4 or 5 years, mostly with competition folks, which means it's been played with for maybe 10 years or so. It usually involves injection and foiling after 4 or 5 hours. Butts are a good candidate to experiment with because from what I have read, the window for error is much smaller on fast cooked briskets. [p]Please let us know the particulars of your cook and the results. Pictures are always a bonus. LOL[p]~thirdeye~ [p][p]

WessB

Eggecutioner,
I would suspect if you went at 300° to an internal of 150° it would take a good hour or so to get there, and at that point you would have a hard time getting the egg to cool back down.....Given what you replied...go ahead with your 300° plan and see how it comes out, worst case is you may end up with more fat left in the meat than a lower temp cook would....either way post your results and keep us informed....these situations are what makes us all learn a thing or 2...good or bad..[p]Wess

fishlessman

Eggecutioner,
to avoid having to learn all the danger zone rules i just started cooking the butts fast thru it. 275 at the grill till the butt reached 135 plus or minus, 225 thru til 180/185 internal, and then just open things up. sometimes there is a layer of fat/geletin in there that is a little excessive, but easily wipes out with a gloved hand, but the meat is fine. better bark too. i remember trying to learn what that 40/140 rule was about, the forum back then was not as friendly as it is today, i got trounced : ). i see posts of 20 plus hour cooks, thats not needed. 8 pound butts should take a lot less time, 14 hours max and mostly less plus some cooler time. the hotter starts and finishes are not needed, but ive been doing it so long that its just routine.

Eggecutioner

WessB,[p]I agree and I will post the results. But now I'm a little nervous about what my results will be. I guess it is only one try. If Bobby Flay can do a butt in 2 hours, this one will be better than that.

fishlessman

thirdeye,
that would be nice to get more distance from the grate to the coals. we need an extension ring to lift the dome up higher. i would buy a deeper egg in a heartbeat.

Eggecutioner

thirdeye,[p]I will post my results and show some pics. I hope this doesn't become a huge failure. Ahhhh.....what the heck. It's only pork.[p]E

Eggecutioner

fishlessman,[p]I have read several of your posts where you said you start hot until your past the 140 degree danger zone. That was what was in my mind when I posted me initial response to this thread. I am glad you posted the paticulars of what you do. The only difference is that I am going to start at 300 instead of 275.[p]E

fishlessman

Eggecutioner,
those are grill temps, dome would be higher. ive been using a 2.5 inch teltru on the dome, which seems to read much closer to what my maverick reads at the grill. the right temp gage would probably read over 300 dome for the start of the cook. i do believe its important to go slower thru the plataue stage, but ive never cooked that high start to finish.

thirdeye

Eggecutioner,[p]Here is a link to one of the guys that is also working on fast cooking. [p]~thirdeye~

[ul][li]Click Here[/ul]

Eggecutioner

fishlessman,[p]I'm NOT going to do it that high start to finish. I am going to lower it before the Plateau. The part I did not know was that you raised the temp back up after it was through the plateau.[p]E

thirdeye

fishlessman,[p]I hear you. I wonder about changing the height/width ratio of a proven design... It might improve one style of cooking but may be a disadvantage in other ways. Using a Sandbagger ring with a grate + the grate extender gives me 10" distance to the coals, if I have a medium sized fire for ribs. I'm thinking about making a taller ring to eliminate the need for the extender.[p]One thing for sure, the smells when cooking direct are wonderful.[p]~thirdeye~

Eggecutioner

thirdeye,[p]This guy doesn't monitior the internal temperature until the end. Although the bark looks really good![p]E

fishlessman

thirdeye,
i think higher would work close to the same, just a deeper pit. most of my cooks are close to the dome and i vary the height of the lump for what im doing. i should get a measure of the distance. ive been cooking ribs on the third grill up with lump just creepung over the holes in the fire box. on that fast cook you posted, sounds like he is starting his cook with a braise similar to a pot roast, cant tell if he adds more liquid during the cook or just lets it go dry in the pan

fishlessman

<p />this is my typical setup of raised grate direct.

WessB

thirdeye,
Thats pretty interesting...may make a liar out of me...we`ll have to wait and see Eggecutioner`s results...Thanks for the link.[p]Wess

thirdeye

Hey Wess,[p]I hardly think there is any lying going on. When this subject comes up, one of the things I have the hardest time believing is that I can rush through the plateau and still have good results. And I also believe that (for tougher cuts like butt and brisket), if the pit temperature is too high from the get-go, the water and fat in the muscle cells renders out before the collagen melts. No melted collagen means no gelatin formation, which equals no lubrication for the meat. No lubrication equals a dry finished product. I am sometimes guilty of foiling for a hot finish following the plateau, and I'm okay with that. But as I mentioned before, I actually like the predictability of a longer lower temp cook.[p]But now comes injection and foiling, and maybe Ed's pan technique. Proper use of either or all three may allow for these things to happen differently. It will sure be interesting to see. It may be handy to use if I really need to cut 30% off of my cook time.[p]~thirdeye~