Pizza Nepalitano, tangzhong method

Botch

This is from an interesting article from Cooks Illustrated a couple months back.  They wanted to develop a way to bake a Nepalitano-style pizza in a western-style oven.  The problem is that an Italian oven hits temps between 800~900º, while a western oven only hits 550º at the most.  Yes, I know our BGEs can hit 900º easily, and that's what I did back in the early days (fully cooked Margheritas in 90 seconds!) but with a 13-year old egg and the cost of lump these days, I try not to do that anymore.  
CI assumed that the lower oven temp allowed too much moisture to escape, drying out the dough before the bottom, and the cheese on top, were sufficiently browned.  So they used the Japanese "tangzhong" process to introduce more water to the dough, without that water actually interfering with the dough "stickiness" (so does this count as "fusion" cooking?).  
The tangzhong involved cooking some of the water with a small amount of flour, that is then incorporated into the full dough but doesn't affect it.  Recipe called for 1/3 cup of water whisked into just 2 Tbs flour, microwave for 30 seconds, whisk again, microwave another 30 seconds, and this is what you get:
 

 
Hint: go ahead and use a whisk to combine the raw flour and water, but use a spoon at the 30- and 60- second points.  And don't lick the spoon!  
The tangzhong is then combined with the rest of the water, sugar, salt and yeast, and allowed to autoleze for twenty minutes, then the rest of the flour is poured in and mixed.  CI's recipe called for folding the dough over with your hands 8 times, balling it up, and then refrigerating overnight.  It was so damn sticky, I opted to use the KitchenAid and a doughhook for 8 minutes; it was still quite sticky but I was able to handle it, divide into quarters, and drop them into my bowls for a frig nap overnight.  

Prepared the sauce/cheese/toppings, took one ball out of the frig for 2 hours and preheated the oven at 500º for 1 hour.  Dumped the ball onto the floured counter and was able to flatten the center and leave a thick collar a la Neapolitan, but when I picked it all up to flip it over, it stretched, all by itself, to about 14"!!!  No springback whatsoever, I've never seen a dough do this before.  I floured the second side, picked it up two more times, the dough in the center window-paned perfectly, no holes/tears, and I slapped it onto my wooden peel and approximated a circle (yeah, it looked like the state of Ohio, Go Buckeyes, I guess).

Sauce went on (Italian ground tomatoes w/salt, garlic powder, Italian oregano, uncooked), a layer of Parmasiano Wisconsiano, full coverage with Boar's Head thin Pepperoni, then a grated layer of this stuff:
 

 
Baked on a stone at 500º for exactly seven minutes, sprinkled w/chiffonade basil, and EVOO:
 

 
I should've waited for it to cool/get sliced for a bottom shot, but you can kinda see the dark spots (and how thin the crust was) here:
 

 
 
Thoughts:
1) The crust was a bit more tender than my usual pie, but the border didn't puff up near as much as the pics in CI;
2) While I like it when a dough doesn't spring back, this stuff was nearly unworkable; it didn't tear at all, but I couldn't handle it too much to get a more round pie, it surrendered to gravity all too easily;
3) The hydration of this dough was 79%!  While it was much less sticky than I expected, it was still difficult to work with, and the tenderness once baked not that different from my usual mix;
4) There is no 4);
5) I couldn't taste a difference between the Buffalo mozzarella and the low-moisture, high-fat mozzarella that I had been using (which was equally hard to find, but a lot less expensive, like 50%!); it also didn't brown as nice, but neither did my crust, so maybe I just need to cook it for 7:45 or so instead of 7:00.  Tomorrow's Pie Assignment.  

alaskanassasin

You’re back!

Canugghead

Nice, thanks for sharing.
I may try that when it's crazy cold outside to use my propane pizza oven. Just came across these two videos recently, probably very similar to the above.
 https://youtu.be/oo_xBo-mmMY?si=t0H2qWeqwLfm2euV

https://youtu.be/1DWHnkSwD48?si=6dckPSgVcYGZS7Xx

Buckwoody Egger

impressive effort!

Paolo

Thanks for reporting this interesting, if somewhat unconventional from my viewing angle, experiment.
I use tangzhong for bread loaves from time to time, but never considered trying it for pizza. It really does help to achieve high hydration in dough.
Here in Italy we tend to be strongly attached to tradition when it comes to cooking, so I really like the openness and creativity you guys in the US bring to the table

Botch

Canugghead said:

Nice, thanks for sharing.
I may try that when it's crazy cold outside to use my propane pizza oven. Just came across these two videos recently, probably very similar to the above.
 https://youtu.be/oo_xBo-mmMY?si=t0H2qWeqwLfm2euV

Yes, that's the exact recipe/technique (Cooks Illustrated, ATK and Cook's Country are all the same folks).  

Canugghead

Botch said:

Canugghead said:

Nice, thanks for sharing.
I may try that when it's crazy cold outside to use my propane pizza oven. Just came across these two videos recently, probably very similar to the above.
 https://youtu.be/oo_xBo-mmMY?si=t0H2qWeqwLfm2euV

Yes, that's the exact recipe/technique (Cooks Illustrated, ATK and Cook's Country are all the same folks).  

Thanks, learned something new.

btw, for folks ( @caliking @paolo ) wondering how to get 'round' pizza, in the first video at the 23:15 mark she demonstrates how not to distort the preformed 'ball'. Since I cold ferment my preformed balls in lightly greased individual round takeout containers it's even easier, just flip the container over and let gravity dislodge the ball.

Paolo

Thank you @Canugghead, that’s the method suggested by most Italian pizza YouTubers. I just need more practice!

caliking

Thanks for the intel, @Botch. The tangzhong/yudane method(s) have been adapted for some winning recipes (cinnamon rolls, choc chip cookies, etc.). Did you use you use Tipo 00 flour, or something else? The 00 has never worked well for me, at sub-Neapolitan temps. 

Disclaimer: I aspire to make a great pie, on any cooker, but have not got there, yet. 

caliking

Canugghead said:

Botch said:

Canugghead said:

Nice, thanks for sharing.
I may try that when it's crazy cold outside to use my propane pizza oven. Just came across these two videos recently, probably very similar to the above.
 https://youtu.be/oo_xBo-mmMY?si=t0H2qWeqwLfm2euV

Yes, that's the exact recipe/technique (Cooks Illustrated, ATK and Cook's Country are all the same folks).  

Thanks, learned something new.

btw, for folks ( @caliking @paolo ) wondering how to get 'round' pizza, in the first video at the 23:15 mark she demonstrates how not to distort the preformed 'ball'. Since I cold ferment my preformed balls in lightly greased individual round takeout containers it's even easier, just flip the container over and let gravity dislodge the ball.

Hey, now... I can make a round pizza! I just want to be able to make a pie as good as yours turn out.

Stormbringer

Really interesting read and conclusions. I'll check out those two videos when we return home. 

Botch

caliking said:

Thanks for the intel, @Botch. The tangzhong/yudane method(s) have been adapted for some winning recipes (cinnamon rolls, choc chip cookies, etc.). Did you use you use Tipo 00 flour, or something else? The 00 has never worked well for me, at sub-Neapolitan temps. 

Disclaimer: I aspire to make a great pie, on any cooker, but have not got there, yet. 

I used up a bag of King Arthur "Pizza Flour" (mebbe a cup), and a bag of Gold Medal "Cake flour" (mebbe a cup and a half) and the rest a fresh bag of Caputo "00", so this batch is completely useless as a datum.  I wanted to replace both with KA "00", but the market didn't have any.  

My second pie today went about the same, with some mods per the ATK video posted above (I didn't read the CI recipe beyond the sheet-pan overnight rise, as I use round Tupperware bowls; today I tried the semolina for dusting; it released fine but was a bit gritty at the bottom.  Baked for 8 vs 7 minutes on a stone, and I got proper leoparding on the bottom and top of the crust, but the crust was still kinda compacted.