OT (sort of): Pizza dough

SmokinJazz

I guess not overly off topic, since people do cook pizzas on the egg, but I’ve found an actual pizza oven does a better job for me.  But to the point of my post - pizza dough!

I’ve typically done a direct method of pizza dough, mixing everything together at once. Even since my visit to Napoli, I’m in an effort to up my pizza game.  I can’t get the level of light puffy crust they get.  I did take a class there, and in that class they use fresh yeast (which I can never get), and they do day long fermentation with a very controlled fermentation temperature (I don’t have a dedicated temperature controlled place to do this). 

I was thinking of exploring preferments, either poolish or biga to try to achieve a better crust.  I don’t really want to do sourdough, as I don’t want quite that flavor, and I used to do sourdough bread and got really tired of maintaining the starter.

Has anyone here explored preferments?  And if so, which one(s) have you explored and would recommend to start with?

Stormbringer

I cook a lot of pizza in the Egg, check out some of my more recent posts. This is the standard pizza dough recipe that I use

https://thecooksdigest.com/2018/06/29/new-and-improved-pizza-dough-recipe/

which gives crusts like this:



I have also done 48 hour fermented pizza dough:

https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1233945/48-hour-cold-fermented-pizza-dough-yep-with-homegrown-arugula

caliking

Stellar, @Stormbringer !

pinging @Canugghead. He consistently bangs out terrific pies, and seems to have it dialed in. 

Botch

The King Arthur Baking Company have a bunch of great videos hosted by Martin Phillip on all the different pizza styles, I learned a lot from them.  

SmokinJazz

Stormbringer said:

I cook a lot of pizza in the Egg, check out some of my more recent posts. This is the standard pizza dough recipe that I use

https://thecooksdigest.com/2018/06/29/new-and-improved-pizza-dough-recipe/

which gives crusts like this:



I have also done 48 hour fermented pizza dough:

https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1233945/48-hour-cold-fermented-pizza-dough-yep-with-homegrown-arugula

Nice looking crust there. I saw you reference the Ken Forkish book in your blog.  I’ve heard some good things about it, been thinking about picking it up.

Canugghead

Beautiful pie. I use the same book. My dough takes about three hours room temp rest after coming out of the fridge.
Thanks @caliking, I have the assembly line quantity (usually 10 or more pies at a time) dialed in, not sure about the quality though 

paqman

I’ve tried poolish but I keep going back to just a plain direct method with a long cold ferment (in the refrigerator).

IMHO, the flour is what makes the most difference.  I use Caputo blue, red, and purple.  Blue for same day dough, Red for longer cold fermentation, Purple for super fluffy dough.

I only use flour, water, salt, and yeast.

I use instant yeast (IDY) AKA bread machine yeast.

I add the salt after 10-15 minutes of mixing (after gluten had time to develop).

I do 2-3 stretch and fold while the dough is bulk fermenting at room temp.

I ball and cold ferment individual dough balls in oiled deli containers.  Balls are good for up to a week, usually best at day #3.

I use PizzApp+ to calculate my ratios/timing: https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/pizzapp/id1228158792

GlennM

I do use a sourdough but the flavour is very neutral.  I get my starter really ripping and then make a 24-36 hr dough using 50 gr of starter, 100 gr water and 150 gr of flour ( 4 gr of salt ). I usually use about 15 gr of whole wheat flour and the rest 00.  

SmokinJazz

paqman said:

I’ve tried poolish but I keep going back to just a plain direct method with a long cold ferment (in the refrigerator).

IMHO, the flour is what makes the most difference.  I use Caputo blue, red, and purple.  Blue for same day dough, Red for longer cold fermentation, Purple for super fluffy dough.

I only use flour, water, salt, and yeast.

I use instant yeast (IDY) AKA bread machine yeast.

I add the salt after 10-15 minutes of mixing (after gluten had time to develop).

I do 2-3 stretch and fold while the dough is bulk fermenting at room temp.

I ball and cold ferment individual dough balls in oiled deli containers.  Balls are good for up to a week, usually best at day #3.

I use PizzApp+ to calculate my ratios/timing: https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/pizzapp/id1228158792

I typically make 4 pizzas worth of dough at a time, 2 to make the same day, and 2 go in the fridge for the next day.  I don't notice much of a difference on the 24 hour fridge dough from the same day one, at least as far as crumb/fluffiness in the crust.  It's possible the fridge doughs have a little more flavor, but it's hard to say without side by side comparison.  

I've used Caputo 00 red and blue flour, as well as King Arthur 00 flour.  I think I like the Caputo better, I just found BJ's carries the King Arthur, so it's pretty cheap there.

I also use IDY and add the salt a few minutes after the dough has had a chance to sit.  I use a mixer but honestly don't spend a lot of time doing various fold techniques people talk about.  Maybe there's something to that?

Nice app, I'll. have to check that out.

caliking

beautiful cornicione, @GlennM .

xfire_ATX

I use Ken Forkish when I have time
https://www.wpr.org/food/recipe-overnight-straight-pizza-dough-ken-forkish

I bought in to his method and got a 6QT Cambro I mix, fold and rest in.  I put the container in my oven w the light on to maintain a steady temp. 

When I dont have time- I use this mix, its a 1 hour process https://www.delallo.com/delallo-pizza-dough-kit-17-6-oz/?srsltid=AfmBOorNh8MYv3l9P-IvINZNE3eQGUZ3-9Td-QVXeCQzh_Xj4RPrMn3M
- Until I got the Cambro I used a bowl and plastic wrap.   I think the directions are a bit under hydrated so when I mix (by hand) I get my hands wetter to moisten the dough.  I meld a bit of Kens process into it- 1 fold at 20 min w wet hands.

I generally make (3) pies from each package, I hand stretch and use a rolling pin and last weekend the crusts were perfect.

I both cases I have that 95-97F (from Ken) really works better w (all) doughs.  I use a digital tea kettle for this.  I quit using the egg for pizza and use my Rectec bullseye at 450.

*Side note- when you have a #5 can full of pellets to refill along the way, make sure you put them somewhere that a surprise 1" of rain wont fill it w water.

Stormbringer

@GlennM some amazing crusts 

Paolo

My take on pizza dough: 
- 1kg flour (type "0")
- 700 ml cold water (70%)
- 3gr fresh yeast
- 16 gr salt
Pagman has it nearlly identical.
The day before cooking I mix with my planetary, do 3 rounds of stretch and fold over 2 hours, then overnight in the fridge in a covered lightly oiled bowl.
The next day after 12 to 24 hours rest I take it out of the fridge 4 hours before cooking and make 6 balls, aproximately 280 gr each. They will rest covered (I use turned salad bowls) until ready for shaping and cooking. I cook raised indirect at 700 F with a 12 inch ceramic stone.
There you go:

MaskedMarvel

The crust is the only thing people REALLY remember from the pizza. I’m convinced. 

I’ve super-simplified our pizza routine. Basically deep dish in those lodge skillets without handles. 

But the crust recipe is what got REALLY simple. 

*******

Four cups 00 quality flour
Two cups warm tap water
Two teaspoons kosher salt
One pack cheap pizza yeast


Do this outside.

- Mix the flour, salt, and yeast together
- Make a “bowl” with the flour and slowly mix the water in. By hand. You won’t use all the water to get to that point where the dough stops “sticking” - you’ll powder your work area frequently with 00 as you go. 

- Don’t overwork the dough. For some reason, this is important. 

- When you get it into a ball, place the dough into a well oiled stainless bowl, cover with Saran Wrap, and wait for it to rise. Maybe an hour. Maybe ten minutes. 

- Then divide the ball into mini-balls and powder with more 00 when those start to rise again (15 minutes), you’re good to start stretching and apply toppings etc 

*********

we have a complicated pizza dough recipe, too. It involves a very special yeast we got years ago from a kind regular member here. And we really get into it with the measurements with that one when we want more special experience on that. But this recipe works. And those pics are all from that. 

The deep dish method is rockin for pizza parties btw because everyone can make their own pie, and share and swap and judge each others’ work lol. Impossible to put too many toppings in. Delicious and FAST. 

sorry that post got way bigger than I intended as I wrote. 

johnmitchell

Outflippenstanding!!!!!

Stormbringer

Blimey ... that's amazing. 

bluebird66

You guys sure know how to turn out some great looking pies.

Corv

Those look soooo goood! It's morning here and I'm already hungry for pizza.

leemschu

@tarheelmatt hooked me up with this years ago and it’s been great. I’m not sure if it’s 100 percent original or not but it’s good every time.

MaskedMarvel

leemschu said:

@tarheelmatt hooked me up with this years ago and it’s been great. I’m not sure if it’s 100 percent original or not but it’s good every time.

I’ll try this later this week!

where’s the honey?