OT. HOME AUTOMATION

Mr1egg

First off merry Christmas everyone, I hope everybody's Christmas was went well.

I'm looking into automating some things in my house. What I would like to do is push a button on my phone and the blinds close and the lights dim down slowly to 0. I was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction. 

Thatgrimguy

My experience has been that I used the gimick a lot at first and now I don't use it at all. It's a pain in the butt to pull out my phone, unlock it, find the app and then navigate the app. Vs getting up and hitting a button. I can also yell Hey Google turn off the lights, but about 30% of the time that fails too.

And then one time Hue lost all my lights. and I had to pull down 32 lights and get serial numbers to make it work again. That was infuriating.  And if you get a professional to do it for you, then you need them every time there is an issue and there are always issues.

I have a folder full of home automation apps.  You can get something like control 4 to bring pieces together, but I don't know anyone who really likes their all in one system.

Mr1egg

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole that far and I honestly don't really like home automation that much. I just think it would be cool to automate my home theater room with lights and closing blinds. I deffenatly won't keep going after that.

jdMyers

So doing home automation for a number of years and assisting disabilities at various levels there is several questions.  I own a communication installation company.  

What is your goal and why?  Example I can't move my limbs so I need voice control.  I can't talk but move my limbs so I need app control.

What are you trying to animate?  Lights switches outlets adaptors bulbs curtains fireplace awnings doors locks lawnmowers sweepers garage doors blinds etc

If using a voice controller then use one type not three.  Keep the cross talk minimal.  Google voice amazon etc 

If using spart light switches plugs and adaptors use the same brand on everything.  Again keep the cross talk down.  One app not six.

Consider bandwidth.  Each light bulb may have its own ip connection.  36 light bulbs and 34 other devices pulls hard on bandwidth.  Router size may have the limitation on number of connections.  Example you have a net gear router 5200 model.  It may have a 35 device limitation that drops one as one is added after that.  Causing random device drops.

Everytime your internet resets and your router recycles everything dhcp reconnects in a different order.  Thus random failures 

I would recommend not connecting anything to your main internet modem.  Everything to a separate router.  All lighting and devices on one and the tvs etc on a separate.  That way if the company modem dies your device connection is not on it. You don't loose the setup. Easy swap. Static ip isn't necessary but helps so much. I would encourage to assign addresses to each device.  Or Mac address assign them.  That way they always stay the same.  Even during a reset the assignment doesn't change.

Write it all down and make a map.  Redoing it is awefull 

Control 4 is a very fancy controller for the devices you have. So you have to be consistent.  It is not necessary to have by any means.  I have done control 4.  Expensive.  I have done it with Alexa similar success at a cheaper route  

If you go simpler make zones and groups in the app.  Then assign devices to the zones.  Easier to debug.  Easier to control 

In my case.  Everything except the garbage disposal.

All lights, smart switches, smart outlets, inferred outdoor floods for better camera lighting.  Robot lawn mower, blinds, blackout blinds, motion switches for all closets hallways stairs and laundry room etc.  Timers routines to close garage after so many minutes.  Same for lights off after so long.  Door locks self lock every 30 min.  Etc.  I have 86 device connections counting all individual lightbulbs xmas connections etc.  Including blinds blackouts theater, whole house interconnections and outdoor kitchen grill area lighting sounds etc.  

Important to note.  My wife uses it hates it loves it and yet complains about it because she can't remember names.  Living room vs great room.  Bedroom fan vs master bedroom fan.  More important.  She isn't the master app controller so she can't change things.   Touchy situation.  

My failure rate is extremely low.  Usually only after a power outage and the hiccup last about 20 min.  The Mac address assignment self fixes.

Hope this helps. Your welcome to call me.
Everyone has an opinion.  Mine is to just help if I can.  I learned what doesn't work well.

Most important.  Devices that work together on a similar platform.  

Whether it’s ZigBee, 6LoWPAN, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi Direct, BACnet, Insteon, PLC, or X10.  Something that works however similar is easier in the long run.

Jd

Mr1egg

Thank you very much for the information, I'm just starting right now to watch videos and look into different products. I'm doing my basement right now and have two switched for the majority of my basement. I would like to install two wifi switches there and be able to close to blinds all from my phone.

I keep seeing the name lutron pop up and am kinda focusing on them. I really don't want to do anything crazy, the lights downstairs are already installed so I would go with switches and I have 5 windows but only 3 are visible from the home theater room.

So 2 wifi switches, 3 windows that I don't have blinds for yet and I want to just simply press a button on my phone to activate all 5 products. 

lkapigian

Great read @jdMyers

jdMyers

Gotcha.  So example.  Tp link branded wall switch replacements, and modules are a good start.  They are reliable and you can build on them later with the same brand.  Not expensive.  Windows.  What ever you decide on for blinds rollers etc.  Consider using the same for all of them even if you add later.  Try not to mix n match devices.  The material doesn't matter.  If you have Alexa then you will want to make sure that device is an available Alexa skill before buying

Mr1egg

Does tp link have products to open and close blinds? 

jdMyers

If you build 3 blinds this year and two next.  Same brand.  Lutrons are flawless everytime.  They sync well too.  That's important.  They look like they close at the same time and same rate.  It will irritate you.  App control is nice.  But voice control is easier.  Setting timers within. The Alexa app to track the sun amd tilt or darken to remove glare and open an hour later after it passes is nice too.  Self close at night and during rain.

jdMyers

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-smart-blinds/

Mr1egg

Ya I watched a video where the guy was all about lutrons but everything is expensive. I'll look into tp link as well. Again I would like all 5 products to be the same company, so we'll see.

caliking

I'm no expert, but I have some things "smartified" - pool motors, outside lighting, mosquito mister, some inside lights, plugs, switches, garage, espresso machine, plus a few others maybe.

The Kasa platform  ( I think that TP-link?) works pretty well for a number of applications. Had to install other brands for things like the pool motors, but Alexa works very well to unify everything. Instead of clicking through different apps, I can give Alexa a command, and it executes it across different apps for some different devices. If you like clicking buttons on an app, you can still do that through the Alexa app. Everything can be operated via Alexa.

@Thatgrimguy - I had a similar experience with Google Assistant. Alexa's voice recognition is light years ahead. 

Langner91

I am a fan of Alexa and the Amazon smart products.  No blinds, though.  Maybe she has a skill for the Lutrons. 

I have light switches and outlet plugs all over my place.  My thermostat (Nest) works with Alexa, and my router, my TV, and my garage door all can be controlled by the silly thing.  Good advice to use the same brand for as much as you can, though.  To do all of those things, I would need to use a different app for each device.  Although, the the Alexa App can control several of them.

I even have her programmed so that when I tell her to "start the grill", she turns my electric charcoal lighter on for eight minutes and then announces that "the grill is lit" to my devices and phone.  

I don't have to pull out my phone, just tell her to turn the lights on, off, or schedule a time to do it.

I live alone, so there are days she is the only other voice I hear! 

Good luck with it!

jdMyers

Great info above.  Kaza is tp link.  Most reliable on consumer grade and inexpensive.  Finding blind or blind controllers won't find tp link.  But the ones you do decide on. Stick with that brand for blinds.  Mix and match will make your flesh crawl.  

Looking forward to your progress. Take photos.  Smile when your done.  Just one thing.  A must to know.

No matter how you plan it.  It will go differently.   Expect it.  Embrace it.  And laugh.  

Mr1egg

Thank you everyone for the info, I honestly just had an idea with home automation and it led me to this lol. I'm doing my basement right now so I have some time to look arohnd and figure things out. While doing the basement it's been 2 steps forward and one step back so I figure it'll be the same with my home automation endeavor. 

jdMyers

Basement thoughts.  What are you doing big picture.   Theater, surround sound?  Think speaker wires, hdmi and network runs before the walls.  Consider your mesh or access point once it's closed off for wifi range in the room.  Especially around metal studs.

lousubcap

The talents and knowledge across quite a far-reaching spectrum that are shared on this forum continue to amaze me.  

MaskedMarvel

IMHO:

Go with Alexa compatible. Never buy anything without it being Alexa integrated. 

Buy cheap Alexa dots and put ones in the used rooms. 

Buy nice Alexa echos and put them in the main rooms. 

Buy Amazon smart plugs. I have mine on fans and some audio amps that I’m only use if I’m in that part of the house, and one “floater” that goes to temporary plugins - currently the Xmas tree. 

Use hue lighting. Every lightbulb you buy should be hue. 

Use a Nest thermostat. No experience with other smart thermostats, but mine paid for itself in a few months. 

Use Amazon Blink home cameras. They used to be free cloud storage. Wireless. HD. Completely Alexa compatible. 

There are Alexa controlled coffee pots, refrigerators, dishwashers, instant pots, irrigation,  TVs, um… massage chairs. I dunno. Oh! Window screens… whatever you need. Why? Because the Industry is defaulting to Alexa as the controller against which all others must compete. With a robust home internet, which we should all have by now, it will work incredibly well. 

My system turns lights on and off based on what time it is, if I’m leaving or returning home, etc. Alexa listens while I’m gone for odd sounds like broken glass while I’m away, and will notify me if she detects anything. 

I use both pandora and Spotify because I try to have music playing in my life, constantly. They, along with tune in radio, play synched in the whole house so well, I think it works so well, I decided not to continue building my wired hi-fi whole house project. 

And  - I’m a slickdealer. I don’t pay full price and I expect the best for the least $$$.  Everything I’ve put in has been bought over a few years for a small percentage of what I would’ve paid up front all at once. This stuff goes on super sale CONSTANTLY. Especially refurbs, which I’ve never had anything but a like-new experience with. Start small. Build. 

Everything is also controllable through your smart handheld. I only use apps when I’m not home, unless Alexa has trouble understanding funny named music or I want exotic colors in my hue lights. 

I firmly believe the energy saved using this system pays for itself every month. Out of everything, the hue lightbulbs are the most expensive compared to other smart devices. I am constantly notified of slickdeals on these, and they’re constantly upgrading their hardware - so last generation ends up being more competitive. 

Finally - everything still works if the global internet goes out.  While I may lose voice control and streaming on the Alexa side, apps are still local. My generator plugs into my hot water heater, my coffee maker, and my wifi. First thing I get going in a very rare failure. 

I also started thinking, like you, that I was just going to use some of this stuff as a novelty. You heard it here first - when you get over the novelty, be glad you built the foundation on a stable solid and supported infrastructure that won’t disappear or suddenly charge you for their previously free protocol. 

Like I said - my opinion. It’s a lot. But home automation makes me feel like I’m  living on Star Trek. 

fishlessman

lousubcap said:

The talents and knowledge across quite a far-reaching spectrum that are shared on this forum continue to amaze me.  

All I can add is a two outlet plug socket with an led night light built in. In the bathroom I can see the hopper with out turning the lights on at night

MaskedMarvel

I want to recommend this website to everyone. I use it constantly. It’s saved me HUGE percentages off regular prices, and the vetting has educated me on so many projects. 

Slickdeals.net

for example:

https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?q=Lutron&searcharea=deals&searchin=first

Mr1egg

jdMyers said:

Basement thoughts.  What are you doing big picture.   Theater, surround sound?  Think speaker wires, hdmi and network runs before the walls.  Consider your mesh or access point once it's closed off for wifi range in the room.  Especially around metal studs.

Home theater,  bar and pool table. I currently have a 7.2 setup but in the future I want 7.4.2 which I will wire for. 

I work for a telecommunications company, I already ran over 2000 feet of cat 6 wire and quite a bit of coax. I'll be supporting all my networking needs with ubiquity networking products whenever they become available. 

Everything will be overkill

Mr1egg

MaskedMarvel said:

IMHO:

Go with Alexa compatible. Never buy anything without it being Alexa integrated. 

Buy cheap Alexa dots and put ones in the used rooms. 

Buy nice Alexa echos and put them in the main rooms. 

Buy Amazon smart plugs. I have mine on fans and some audio amps that I’m only use if I’m in that part of the house, and one “floater” that goes to temporary plugins - currently the Xmas tree. 

Use hue lighting. Every lightbulb you buy should be hue. 

Use a Nest thermostat. No experience with other smart thermostats, but mine paid for itself in a few months. 

Use Amazon Blink home cameras. They used to be free cloud storage. Wireless. HD. Completely Alexa compatible. 

There are Alexa controlled coffee pots, refrigerators, dishwashers, instant pots, irrigation,  TVs, um… massage chairs. I dunno. Oh! Window screens… whatever you need. Why? Because the Industry is defaulting to Alexa as the controller against which all others must compete. With a robust home internet, which we should all have by now, it will work incredibly well. 

My system turns lights on and off based on what time it is, if I’m leaving or returning home, etc. Alexa listens while I’m gone for odd sounds like broken glass while I’m away, and will notify me if she detects anything. 

I use both pandora and Spotify because I try to have music playing in my life, constantly. They, along with tune in radio, play synched in the whole house so well, I think it works so well, I decided not to continue building my wired hi-fi whole house project. 

And  - I’m a slickdealer. I don’t pay full price and I expect the best for the least $$$.  Everything I’ve put in has been bought over a few years for a small percentage of what I would’ve paid up front all at once. This stuff goes on super sale CONSTANTLY. Especially refurbs, which I’ve never had anything but a like-new experience with. Start small. Build. 

Everything is also controllable through your smart handheld. I only use apps when I’m not home, unless Alexa has trouble understanding funny named music or I want exotic colors in my hue lights. 

I firmly believe the energy saved using this system pays for itself every month. Out of everything, the hue lightbulbs are the most expensive compared to other smart devices. I am constantly notified of slickdeals on these, and they’re constantly upgrading their hardware - so last generation ends up being more competitive. 

Finally - everything still works if the global internet goes out.  While I may lose voice control and streaming on the Alexa side, apps are still local. My generator plugs into my hot water heater, my coffee maker, and my wifi. First thing I get going in a very rare failure. 

I also started thinking, like you, that I was just going to use some of this stuff as a novelty. You heard it here first - when you get over the novelty, be glad you built the foundation on a stable solid and supported infrastructure that won’t disappear or suddenly charge you for their previously free protocol. 

Like I said - my opinion. It’s a lot. But home automation makes me feel like I’m  living on Star Trek. 

Ya I can honestly see it getting a lot bigger, I just need to relax right now while building my basement lol. I'm already thinking about doing more but once I start spending on material to complete the basement I start to suppress my thoughts.

jdMyers

What is driving the theater

Mr1egg

Same speakesr but I sold the polk subs and replaced them with svs. Onkyo receiver and I just recently bought a samsung 86inch TV. Along with a lot of other small stuff like a htpc, apc power conditioner switches and so on.

CTMike

So I use Control4 for my Home Automation environment. T-stats, lights, exterior door locks, garage doors, security cameras, home theater system, HTPC, and some other things I’m likely forgetting. 

Like @jdMyers said above, it isn’t cheap - but it works flawlessly every time. It is nice to give a command to Alexa (interfaced with C4) such as “Alexa, lock up the house,” and all exteriors locks and garage doors get a close signal/lock signal (even if already closed/locked), the t-stats get setback, lights go off, etc.

I’m slowly adding functionality - this year I will be adding a driveway sensor (500’ driveway), and a monitor for the 500 gallon propane tank. 

The remote access is great also. 

jdMyers

Here is a list that talks about control 4 components.  Nice info.  However scroll to the bottom for a complete list of numerous automation controllers and link for what it does how it works and how it links.



https://home-automations.net/control-4-price-list-2020/

Mark_B_Good

Lutron Cassetta Wireless Dimmers, with the Lutron Hub.
You can even program using bots to have the ligths turn on or off automatically at any given time. For example, I set my porch lights to turn on 5 minutes before dusk, and off at midnight. It uses your location to determine when dusk is throughout the year including daylight savings adjustment. Basically, once it's programmed, I never touch my lights.

I believe Lutron also has switches to power devices on and off ... 

danhoo

I've had TP-link / Kasa for couple of years and they are quite reliable. setting schedules with multiple off times ( off at 11pm, 12pm, 1pm, 2pm ) is worth it for the lights that get turned on and left on by the kids.

I have a number of smart plugs mostly for lamps. I put a smart plug on a less reliable wifi device so I could remote power cycle it with the smart plug.
I have three way switches, and you only need one TP-link to make it work.
I have a couple of the dimmers and they work well also.

I have a number of wifi enabled devices that I didn't want Alexa managing as I didn't want to deal with mistaken commands going to the HVAC etc.

for example:
[ME]: Alexa, turn up the TV
[Alexa]: OK, turning up heat to 80 degrees.
[ME]: Alexa, turn off the heat
[Alexa]: Did you mean Table Lamp

CTMike

Mark_B_Good said:

Lutron Cassetta Wireless Dimmers, with the Lutron Hub.
You can even program using bots to have the ligths turn on or off automatically at any given time. For example, I set my porch lights to turn on 5 minutes before dusk, and off at midnight. It uses your location to determine when dusk is throughout the year including daylight savings adjustment. Basically, once it's programmed, I never touch my lights.

I believe Lutron also has switches to power devices on and off ... 

I do something similar with my exterior lights. They turn on 30 minutes after sunset, turn off at midnight. Come back on at 4 AM and go off at sunrise. 

I also have another routine:

‘IF <left><right><center> garage door opens AND >30 minutes after Sunset THEN turn ON Garage and Mud Room lights.’ They then shut off 10 minutes later.  

This makes it easy if coming in after dark with hands full (sleeping grandkid, groceries, etc) and not having to fumble for light switches. 

saluki2007

I had a Control4 system and loved it. They have the most opportunities to automate your home.  If your plan is just to have some blinds close when you turn your TV on then the C4 is over kill. 

CTMike

saluki2007 said:

I had a Control4 system and loved it. They have the most opportunities to automate your home.  If your plan is just to have some blinds close when you turn your TV on then the C4 is over kill. 

Agreed. Crestron is the other big player in the home automation arena, and I believe they are even more expensive than C4.