New Kamado Joe Kettle - Will BGE Follow?

WeberWho

I saw this posted over on the BBQ Brethren. 

https://youtu.be/ikdQho6UwkE 

Will BGE step into the kettle game? 

HeavyG

Interesting.

The shape is similar to the design that that group of Harvard students came up with a few years ago when they studied what would make the ideal smoker.

Some of the members on that team later worked with KJ to design the sloRoller insert. Perhaps this is a continuation of their work.

If they do actually sell those for $400 I'd bet they sell a ton of them.

TEXASBGE2018

Good luck selling a $400 kettle when I can get a tried and true Weber Kettle the same size and even color for $100. The “extras” they include also don’t justify 4x the price of a weber kettle. He also says they are completely decimating BGE in kamado sales? Is that true? 

Cause I know a lot of people off this forum with kamados and also just driving around town and seeing people’s backyards Not 1 person has a kamado Joe around here that I’ve seen. Everyone here has a BGE if they have a kamado. Maybe in certain parts of the country KJ sells well I guess. I’d say the ratio around here is 100 to 1 BGE to KJ.

Oh well at least they are innovating unlike someone we know. Cough cough BGE cough cough

loco_engr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM

HeavyG

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Good luck selling a $400 kettle when I can get a tried and true Weber Kettle the same size and even color for $100. The “extras” they include also don’t justify 4x the price of a weber kettle. He also says they are completely decimating BGE in kamado sales? Is that true? 

Cause I know a lot of people off this forum with kamados and also just driving around town and seeing people’s backyards Not 1 person has a kamado Joe around here that I’ve seen. Everyone here has a BGE if they have a kamado. Maybe in certain parts of the country KJ sells well I guess. I’d say the ratio around here is 100 to 1 BGE to KJ.

Oh well at least they are innovating unlike someone we know. Cough cough BGE cough cough

A bottom of the line Kettle is $100. To get one more comparable to the KJ Kettle I think you're looking at the Performer Premium which is $399.

TEXASBGE2018

Having owned one previously I think the weber performer is far superior to this KJ setup. I’m just not a fan of any KJ products with the exception of maybe their Rotisserie thing. All their other products just feel inferior to me when I’ve seen them in person.  

WeberWho

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Having owned one previously I think the weber performer is far superior to this KJ setup. I’m just not a fan of any KJ products with the exception of maybe their Rotisserie thing. All their other products just feel inferior to me when I’ve seen them in person.  

Have you seen the Kamado Joe Classic 3 in person?  The hinge in particular? I think we've all drank the Kool-Aid here but it isn't even close in comparison. Nothing against BGE but they're several steps behind. 

TEXASBGE2018

WeberWho said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Having owned one previously I think the weber performer is far superior to this KJ setup. I’m just not a fan of any KJ products with the exception of maybe their Rotisserie thing. All their other products just feel inferior to me when I’ve seen them in person.  

Have you seen the Kamado Joe Classic 3 in person?  The hinge in particular? I think we've all drank the Kool-Aid here but it isn't even close in comparison. Nothing against BGE but they're several steps behind. 

I have not but unless materials wise it’s light years ahead of the Classic 2 I dunno that it would matter to me. Polishing a turd doesn’t make it less of a turd. BGE does need to innovate but compared to a Classic 2 the BGE feels much better quality wise. Less innovative no doubt but quality wise they are far far apart to me. To me the KJ is on par with those crappy knockoff kamados with the jagged metal edges and chipping glaze you can get from Pitboss at Costco.

TEXASBGE2018

I should add that when I was starting down this path a few years ago I was not brand loyal and knew nothing about kamados, after researching for months I was left deciding between the KJ, BGE and the Weber Summit. Once I looked at each in person for a few weeks it wasn’t even a contest. The KJ was dead last despite all the “trinkets” it included. It was down to the Summit and BGE for me. And the final deciding factors were build quality and warranty. It’s hard to beat a lifetime warranty so here I am. 

WeberWho

TEXASBGE2018 said:

WeberWho said:

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Having owned one previously I think the weber performer is far superior to this KJ setup. I’m just not a fan of any KJ products with the exception of maybe their Rotisserie thing. All their other products just feel inferior to me when I’ve seen them in person.  

Have you seen the Kamado Joe Classic 3 in person?  The hinge in particular? I think we've all drank the Kool-Aid here but it isn't even close in comparison. Nothing against BGE but they're several steps behind. 

I have not but unless materials wise it’s light years ahead of the Classic 2 I dunno that it would matter to me. Polishing a turd doesn’t make it not a turd. BGE does need to innovate but compared to a Classic 2 the BGE feels much better put together. Less innovative no doubt but quality wise they are far far apart to me. To me the KJ is on par with those crappy knockoff kamados with the jagged metal edges and chipping glaze you can get from Pitboss at Costco.

The new Kamado Joe stand looks tacky and cheap. 

I found the Kamado Big Joe III to be impressive. Especially the ease of opening/closing with their hinge. I have no dog in the fight with Kamado Joe. I've never had one but I do have a couple friends who have them. They went red over green. I don't think I'd be able to get them to change their mind. 

Competition is good either way. Kamado Joe has gone hard after BGE. They've made a name for themselves. Now they're gunning for Weber. I have to give them credit. They're not messing around. They're not rolling over for anyone. It will be interesting to see where this kettle goes for them. 

cookingdude555

I dont like the KJ hinge.  I know people gush over it, I dont like that I have to latch the lid to keep it shut because gravity has been defeated.  Before I am called a BGE fanboy, I have 3 KJs.  I just like my eggs better.

WeberWho

cookingdude555 said:

I dont like the KJ hinge.  I know people gush over it, I dont like that I have to latch the lid to keep it shut because gravity has been defeated.  Before I am called a BGE fanboy, I have 3 KJs.  I just like my eggs better.

Opening and closing KJ hinge is silky smooth. I do agree though about the latch though. That would be a pain in the arse every time you wanted to open the lid.

Ozzie_Isaac

$400, ceramic insert firebox, smoker and kettle.  Looks like a winner to me.  To the average Joe this  competes with the Acorn and The Summit.  This slots in right between in the price sweet spot.

cookingdude555

But no, I dont think BGE will follow.  I dont believe they have the ability to pivot like this.  I had a bubba keg metal kamado 12 years ago, and its a fantastic grill.  Its a shame BGE wont build something like this, and will only see their product in one light, ceramic.  However the possible danger KJ may find themselves in is cannibalizing their high dollar customers into low dollar customers.

WeberWho

cookingdude555 said:

But no, I dont think BGE will follow.  I dont believe they have the ability to pivot like this.  I had a bubba keg metal kamado 12 years ago, and its a fantastic grill.  Its a shame BGE wont build something like this, and will only see their product in one light, ceramic.  However the possible danger KJ may find themselves in is cannibalizing their high dollar customers into low dollar customers.

I'd imagine KJ has thought of this. It might not be too much of a risk with the cost of manufacturing between the two and cost of warranty replacement parts they need to cover. I'd also think businesses would also be more willing to take the cheaper version of the grills to sell. They'd probably sell more of them capitalizing higher profits for both the business and KJ.

My thoughts anyway. I could be way off....

cookingdude555

WeberWho said:

cookingdude555 said:

But no, I dont think BGE will follow.  I dont believe they have the ability to pivot like this.  I had a bubba keg metal kamado 12 years ago, and its a fantastic grill.  Its a shame BGE wont build something like this, and will only see their product in one light, ceramic.  However the possible danger KJ may find themselves in is cannibalizing their high dollar customers into low dollar customers.

I'd imagine KJ has thought of this. It might not be too much of a risk with the cost of manufacturing between the two and cost of warranty replacement parts they need to cover. I'd also think businesses would also be more willing to take the cheaper version of the grills to sell. They'd probably sell more of them capitalizing higher profits for both the business and KJ.

My thoughts anyway. I could be way off....

Some good things to think about for sure.  I am excited to see what comes of this.  Like I said in my previous post, I am big fan of the metal kamado.

HeavyG

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Having owned one previously I think the weber performer is far superior to this KJ setup. I’m just not a fan of any KJ products with the exception of maybe their Rotisserie thing. All their other products just feel inferior to me when I’ve seen them in person.  

OK, I'll bite.

What, in your estimable opinion, is "far superior" about the Performer in comparison to a grill that currently only exists as a prototype and that neither of us has actually touched?

mEGG_My_Day

Maybe I am slow, but I don’t get it.  I don’t see where it fits in.  I’m going to bed and will ponder while dozing off.  I’ll report back if I have a eureka moment. 

YukonRon

If lighter in weight and good surface area, maybe with the surge in camping/RVs and outdoor activity from the lockdown, this could provide a better alternative to the BGE for travel/tailgating/camping.

We always take our mini max with us, this could be the answer to those seeking great grub while on the road without lugging a heavy ceramic cooker of a somewhat limited surface area.

Looks viable to me for either home or the eventual camping/tailgating/travel activities.

At $400, pretty sure these things will sell very well. 

Lit

TEXASBGE2018 said:

Good luck selling a $400 kettle when I can get a tried and true Weber Kettle the same size and even color for $100. The “extras” they include also don’t justify 4x the price of a weber kettle. He also says they are completely decimating BGE in kamado sales? Is that true? 

Cause I know a lot of people off this forum with kamados and also just driving around town and seeing people’s backyards Not 1 person has a kamado Joe around here that I’ve seen. Everyone here has a BGE if they have a kamado. Maybe in certain parts of the country KJ sells well I guess. I’d say the ratio around here is 100 to 1 BGE to KJ.

Oh well at least they are innovating unlike someone we know. Cough cough BGE cough cough

Local here in Atlanta you still see more eggs but KJ is closing the gap for sure. Atlanta grill company sold more eggs than anyone in the world then picked up KJ for awhile and ran with both then couldnt sell eggs once people saw both side by side. The Gen3 KJ makes the egg look bad IMO. Also with the costco roadshows KJ kills it. I would have to see this new one in action before I would consider it though for a couple hundred more you could grab a PK360. Jist to give an idea Atlanta grill company has a end of year sale event with demos going on amd cars would line up down the road. The one year they sold close to 300 eggs in 1 day and they just completely dropped BGE. I probably won't ever own another ceramic grill but if I did I would get it from the company making advancements and not just ripping off others ideas.

Lit

This would probably be the weber to compare this with. Hinged lid and comes with a heat diffuser. This is the master touch that came out in Europe first and is jist now available here. $319

stlcharcoal

TEXASBGE2018 said:  To me the KJ is on par with those crappy knockoff kamados with the jagged metal edges and chipping glaze you can get from Pitboss at Costco.

It's much better than the Pitboss and other $400-600 Kamados.  I have never seen one with "jagged metal" or "chipping glaze".  I sold a few dozen Classic I's about 8 yrs ago, and no issues except for one cracked firebox.  Of the 70-something eggs I sold, quite a few had base cracks, cracked fireboxes, etc.  Of the 40 Classic & BJ II's and III's I've sold now, no claims other than a bad wheel on one nest.  Take a closer look at them and I think you will see they're better than what you think they are.  This is coming from a 25 yr BGE guy.

WeberWho said:

The new Kamado Joe stand looks tacky and cheap. 

The new stand is great.  It's not lightweight nor cheap.  It's solid, has good casters, and has storage below.  I have had a few customers ditch the old wire stand and order the new one.  They're really nice.

WeberWho said:

cookingdude555 said:

I dont like the KJ hinge.  I know people gush over it, I dont like that I have to latch the lid to keep it shut because gravity has been defeated.  Before I am called a BGE fanboy, I have 3 KJs.  I just like my eggs better.

Opening and closing KJ hinge is silky smooth. I do agree though about the latch though. That would be a pain in the arse every time you wanted to open the lid.

It's not a pain......when you slide you hand through the handle, you can use your knuckles or just open you hand a little to pop that latch.  Or you can use you thumb.  It has a rounded catch, so it's smooth to latch and unlatch.  Kind of like a properly adjust door and door knob, it's not an issue.  You can adjust the latch height, tension, catch, plus the main hinge tension.  So if you really hate it that much, just loosen the main spring tension to make the lid heavier, and pull the latch off.  

I wasn't to hip on the idea either when it came out, because they raised the price by $300-400 to pay for it.  But after seeing my kids and customers drop the lid on the BGE a few times, and have people with bad shoulders or other injuries come in my store, I kind of kind like now.  The Classic 1 is still available for those who don't want to pay for it though.  After all the continued issues with BGE hinge alignment and wearing out, I'm pretty happy with them. 

I had a XL BGE and a KJ BJ-III sitting side by side in the store for a year--and after new customers lifted the lid on both, they wanted the KJ.  Those that have lifted the lid on a XL thousands of times for years don't really care, but for a new buyer, it's a big upgrade.  Just like auto opening/closing rear hatches on SUV's.  Don't know what you're missing unless you've got it or it's all you've ever had.

johnnyp

I'm in a pretty big KJ group on FB and I really like what I see from their design improvements.  Specifically, the hinge and Divide and Conquer cooking rack seem particularly nice.

The only thing I find concerning is the frequency that I see widespread quality issues with new components.  Unsure if it was bad R&D with the materials/engineering or poor quality control from the manufacturer.  Specifically their new cap and their temp controller (iKamand) appear to have had widespread issues.  Innovation is cool, but they lose brand-equity with these misses.

Actually, what intrigues me most about KJ is watching which dealers choose to carry them.  I assumed that they were gaining market share and more favorable customer reputation.  Then I noticed that an old egghead, turned KJ influencer, who just opened a bbq retail business chose to carry Green instead of Red.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that decision, but ostensibly he's in-the-know, having been aligned with both companies relatively recently. 

johnnyp

stlcharcoal said:

WeberWho said:

The new Kamado Joe stand looks tacky and cheap. 

The new stand is great.  It's not lightweight nor cheap.  It's solid, has good casters, and has storage below.  I have had a few customers ditch the old wire stand and order the new one.  They're really nice.

I have no doubt that its sturdy or well built.  But I agree with @WeberWho the aesthetics are terrible.  Looks like a playskool product.

fishlessman

im going to wait for the RTIC version

kmac1036

HeavyG said:

Interesting.

The shape is similar to the design that that group of Harvard students came up with a few years ago when they studied what would make the ideal smoker.

Some of the members on that team later worked with KJ to design the sloRoller insert. Perhaps this is a continuation of their work.

If they do actually sell those for $400 I'd bet they sell a ton of them.

exactly what I thought. They used BGE in the early phase for testing and prototyping.

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/

Ozzie_Isaac

johnnyp said:

I'm in a pretty big KJ group on FB and I really like what I see from their design improvements.  Specifically, the hinge and Divide and Conquer cooking rack seem particularly nice.

The only thing I find concerning is the frequency that I see widespread quality issues with new components.  Unsure if it was bad R&D with the materials/engineering or poor quality control from the manufacturer.  Specifically their new cap and their temp controller (iKamand) appear to have had widespread issues.  Innovation is cool, but they lose brand-equity with these misses.

Actually, what intrigues me most about KJ is watching which dealers choose to carry them.  I assumed that they were gaining market share and more favorable customer reputation.  Then I noticed that an old egghead, turned KJ influencer, who just opened a bbq retail business chose to carry Green instead of Red.  Maybe I'm reading too much into that decision, but ostensibly he's in-the-know, having been aligned with both companies relatively recently. 

Dr.BBQ?

HeavyG

fishlessman said:

im going to wait for the RTIC version

Still waiting for that ceramic kamado RTIC announced was coming out a couple years ago...

kmac1036

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

im going to wait for the RTIC version

Still waiting for that ceramic kamado RTIC announced was coming out a couple years ago...

Likely vaporware at this point. Selling their fire disc knockoff tho, but that's it for grills.

fishlessman

kmac1036 said:

HeavyG said:

fishlessman said:

im going to wait for the RTIC version

Still waiting for that ceramic kamado RTIC announced was coming out a couple years ago...

Likely vaporware at this point. Selling their fire disc knockoff tho, but that's it for grills.

i did see that last year, that oblong shape is going to have cracking problems worse than any of the round ones

carrda04

mEGG_My_Day said:

Maybe I am slow, but I don’t get it.  I don’t see where it fits in.  I’m going to bed and will ponder while dozing off.  I’ll report back if I have a eureka moment. 

I think I see a couple openings where it fits, I just have no market knowledge to evaluate how large a slice that actually is. I think it's going to mostly target people who 1) Love KJ already and want something else like this; or 2) have enough kamado knowledge to want one, but not the money to spend on a ceramic/would use it enough to see the value. You'd assume their market research suggests there is enough demand. 

Thinking of my dad, for example. He's watched me cook on the egg but isn't someone likely to spend the money for something he'd use not terribly frequently. He's used basic weber charcoals or gas his whole life, and just grills. But he and my mom may downsize in the next 12-24 months, and his 20 year old weber likely won't make the transition. A couple more beef ribs at my house and he'd certainly entertain this idea when its time to move.