OT - Misen knife won't stay sharp

Ozzie_Isaac

I was part of the original kickstarter group for Misen.  I got my knife late last year.  I use it only for veggies (no bones anywhere near it) and on an end grain maple cutting board.

My issue is it dulls fast.  Initial edge lasted 6 months, using it about 3 times a week for meal prep.  My other regular duty knife lasts well over a year with a few hits on steel.

I resharpened to their 15 degree edge with a WS-KO.  Same process I use for my medium grade Heinckel.  I struggled to get it to take a decent edge and that edge lasted about 2 weeks.

I contacted Misen, and they recommended taking it to a pro sharpening shop.  I have no issues with my other knives taking edges or staying sharp.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?  Does the knife take a different sharpening style?  I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

Killit_and_Grillit

Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

DMW

Killit_and_Grillit said:

Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...

Ozzie_Isaac

DMW said:

Killit_and_Grillit said:

Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...

Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher .... well, this is a family forum.

Biggreenpharmacist

Ozzie_Isaac said:

DMW said:

Killit_and_Grillit said:

Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...

Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher .... well, this is a family forum.

Thats mighty big talk. Sounds like something I'd say knowing damn well if mine put one in there I would ask her not to do it again and then promptly use it as an excuse to go buy another one. 

theyolksonyou

Ozzie_Isaac said:

DMW said:

Killit_and_Grillit said:

Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...

Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher ....  I'd say thank you for cleaning up my mess. I'm sorry you had to do it. 

Ozzie_Isaac

Biggreenpharmacist said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

DMW said:

Killit_and_Grillit said:

Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...

Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher .... well, this is a family forum.

Thats mighty big talk. Sounds like something I'd say knowing damn well if mine put one in there I would ask her not to do it again and then promptly use it as an excuse to go buy another one. 

Yeah, my wife doesn't read this forum.  Its my safe zone, were I pretend to wear the pants.  

HeavyG

I vaguely recall reading somewhere a few months ago some discussion about this problem. The thinking was that apparently some batches of the knives weren't being heat treated properly and were coming in at a lower HRC than Misen intended.

If you can find a really skilled pro that uses water stones in your area it might be worth taking it to them just so they can give you some feedback on what they "feel" when they sharpen it. They may be able to judge if the steel is hard based on the feedback they feel when working it on the stones.

I also have a Misen (via Kickstarter) but I haven't really used it so much that it has needed sharpening yet so I can't really say how it compares in that regard.

RRP

Yeah, my wife doesn't read this forum.  Its my safe zone, were I pretend to wear the pants.  

Guess your old daddy (@Jeepster47) hasn't admitted yet getting back at you for swiping all those steaks out of his freezer back here in IL! How do you think he split those pieces of wild cherry he gave me? 

HeavyG

I was trying to find that conversation I referenced earlier but couldn't. Looking around in other forums one of the common complaints about Aus 8 steel (as is used in the Misen) is that it is easy to sharpen to a razor edge but doesn't hold it's edge long.

Of course edge retention really depends on how a knife is used, how often, and what it is cutting.

Personally, as just a home chef and not a pro using knives for hours every day, I've never been too concerned about edge retention. A knife gets dull you just sharpen it. However, if your Misen is really noticeably dulling in just a couple weeks of the use you describe (you're not pretending it's a Ginzu and chopping thru blocks of frozen spinach right? ) that is a bit concerning.

Ozzie_Isaac

HeavyG said:

I was trying to find that conversation I referenced earlier but couldn't. Looking around in other forums one of the common complaints about Aus 8 steel (as is used in the Misen) is that it is easy to sharpen to a razor edge but doesn't hold it's edge long.

Of course edge retention really depends on how a knife is used, how often, and what it is cutting.

Personally, as just a home chef and not a pro using knives for hours every day, I've never been too concerned about edge retention. A knife gets dull you just sharpen it. However, if your Misen is really noticeably dulling in just a couple weeks of the use you describe (you're not pretending it's a Ginzu and chopping thru blocks of frozen spinach right? ) that is a bit concerning.

No ginzu penny chopping action.  Onions, peppers, tomatoes, scallions, garlic, ginger, etc.

One thing that really annoyed me was slicing banannas in their skin.  It mushed slighly ripe bananas two weeks after sharpening.  I had to drag slice instead of my typical western type chop.

sctdg

Ozzie_Isaac said:

I was part of the original kickstarter group for Misen.  I got my knife late last year.  I use it only for veggies (no bones anywhere near it) and on an end grain maple cutting board.

My issue is it dulls fast.  Initial edge lasted 6 months, using it about 3 times a week for meal prep.  My other regular duty knife lasts well over a year with a few hits on steel.

I resharpened to their 15 degree edge with a WS-KO.  Same process I use for my medium grade Heinckel.  I struggled to get it to take a decent edge and that edge lasted about 2 weeks.

I contacted Misen, and they recommended taking it to a pro sharpening shop.  I have no issues with my other knives taking edges or staying sharp.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?  Does the knife take a different sharpening style?  I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

For your WS-KO get the blade grinding attachment and the cloth stropping belts . Sharpen your knives free hand . Works for me way better that the guides that originally came with it and you have less of a chance of putting scratch marks on side of knife .
I use one of these for the in between times works real nice especially on my steak knives that get beat up from cutting on plates .

Victorinox Diamond Honing Steel 12-Inch Oval with Hollow Core, Black Plastic Handle

Amazon has it .

nolaegghead

I've heard reports that they sharpen well using the concrete on your driveway, and final polishing on terrazzo.

gdenby

My guess is that 15 degrees is too acute. Mushing vegetables often indicates a rolled edge. If you have a really good magnifying glass or jewelers loup, give it look.

If rolled, take the edge back to 18, or even 20, but really polish the bevel. Hone the edge w. some 600 grit wet/dry paper.

Focker

I can sharpen annually on all of my knives and various steels by honing religiously.  But spreading the workload out helps too.

The tapered tip, light weight, and ergo make this thing a bargain beast, the tip made quick work of grilled corn and use on bamboo.  Honed back to razor sharp no prob.

Mine does have a couple of micro rust spots, no big deal.

Hope you can get it back in working order.
I'm not a huge fan of the KO belt system with play in the belts, you're not hitting the true acute angle.

YukonRon

Quit using it to open your Firecraft boxes. (just kidding)

GoooDawgs

What happens when you put it in the dishwasher?  I bought a cheap white handled knife that Aaron Franklin uses, and have noticed it will not stay sharp anymore, even after I run it through the sharpener. 

Does the dishwasher permanently hurt it? 

Photo Egg

GoooDawgs said:

What happens when you put it in the dishwasher?  I bought a cheap white handled knife that Aaron Franklin uses, and have noticed it will not stay sharp anymore, even after I run it through the sharpener. 

Does the dishwasher permanently hurt it? 

Dishwasher works like a mini sand blasting machine. This is why yo do not put nice china or crystal in the DW. Same with your better knives.
No, it will will not permanently damage the knife edge as it can be re sharpened but is will damage the polish of the blade and handle.

DoubleEgger

Here's an article that will probably shed some light on to your Misen woes. 

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/

HeavyG

DoubleEgger said:

Here's an article that will probably shed some light on to your Misen woes. 

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/

Interesting article.  That was referenced in a different thread here some time ago about knives and was probably the one I mentioned earlier but couldn't remember. Glad you found that.

J. Kenji did a review of the Misen a year earlier than the Wired article and had a different conclusion. To be fair tho he had one of the earlier runs - http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/09/best-cheap-chefs-knives-misen-equipment-review.html

As I mentioned up-thread there apparently were some problems with some later batches of Misen knives. I got my Misen in the first batch via their Kisckstarter project. It's not my favorite knife but I think it is well worth the $55 I paid for it. 

My knife doesn't seem to have the kind of problems @Ozzie_Isaac has mentioned. Coincidentally, he mentioned slicing a banana thru the peel and I had a banana a couple days ago that had a few brown spots so I thought I would see how my Misen worked on that. It chopped right thru - no slicing motion needed.

Sucks that @Ozzie_Isaac is having problems with his. Hitting it with a few strokes of the honing rod before each use might ease his pain somewhat.

odie91

Interesting link. If those hardness tests are correct, I'd ask for a refund.    Then again, I am the guy who started a separate thread asking if cutco knives are any good lol

Ozzie_Isaac

@DoubleEgger thanks for the link.  That sounds like it may be root of my issue.

@HeavyG the honing rod defintely helps, but I would prefer not to use it daily.

@YukonRon I only use my Shun's for opening boxes.

HeavyG

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@DoubleEgger thanks for the link.  That sounds like it may be root of my issue.

@HeavyG the honing rod defintely helps, but I would prefer not to use it daily.

@YukonRon I only use my Shun's for opening boxes.

C'mon now...those 10 seconds of theater while honing a knife is what makes people think they're in the presence of a real pro!

HeavyG

odie91 said:

Interesting link. If those hardness tests are correct, I'd ask for a refund.    Then again, I am the guy who started a separate thread asking if cutco knives are any good lol

Interestingly, the Misen uses a slightly higher grade of steel than Cutco uses - Misen = Aus8, Cutco = 440A.

However, if one gets a knife where the metal may not have been properly heat treated it likely won't perform up to expectations.

I would be inclined to ask Misen about getting a replacement as I'd be curious to see if their latest releases are actually any better.

Focker

HeavyG said:

Ozzie_Isaac said:

@DoubleEgger thanks for the link.  That sounds like it may be root of my issue.

@HeavyG the honing rod defintely helps, but I would prefer not to use it daily.

@YukonRon I only use my Shun's for opening boxes.

C'mon now...those 10 seconds of theater while honing a knife is what makes people think they're in the presence of a real pro!

Gordon Ramsay is an absolute joy to watch with a knife, like Pepin.  The best part of Master Chef is watching his knife skill tutorial. He always hones before use, and frenched a rack of lamb flawlessly, made it look so damn easy.  I don't think he would struggle with a banana. 

tarheelmatt

What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 

Focker

tarheelmatt said:

What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 

Serrated Dexter.

tarheelmatt

Focker said:

tarheelmatt said:

What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 

Serrated Dexter.

Thanks ol buddy. I'll pass that on to my friend that really needs help. 

bgebrent

tarheelmatt said:

What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 

Matt, that's a tough one!  I do most of my cutting on humans with a laser. I couldn't recommend that for an egg. I'd go with an Eastern machete. 

DoubleEgger

What about a Leech Lake filet knife? 

theyolksonyou

My Henckles work pretty well.