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OT - Misen knife won't stay sharp

Ozzie_IsaacOzzie_Isaac Posts: 8,920
edited August 2017 in Off Topic
I was part of the original kickstarter group for Misen.  I got my knife late last year.  I use it only for veggies (no bones anywhere near it) and on an end grain maple cutting board.

My issue is it dulls fast.  Initial edge lasted 6 months, using it about 3 times a week for meal prep.  My other regular duty knife lasts well over a year with a few hits on steel.

I resharpened to their 15 degree edge with a WS-KO.  Same process I use for my medium grade Heinckel.  I struggled to get it to take a decent edge and that edge lasted about 2 weeks.

I contacted Misen, and they recommended taking it to a pro sharpening shop.  I have no issues with my other knives taking edges or staying sharp.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?  Does the knife take a different sharpening style?  I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.
If it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

XL, Medium, Minimax, Mini, Blackstone, WSM
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Comments

  • Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?

    "Brought to you by bourbon, bacon, and a series of questionable life decisions."

    South of Nashville, TN

  • DMWDMW Posts: 12,702
    Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?
    I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...
    My Facebook Page where I document my cooking
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - 18.5" WSM - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE - Akron Jr - BS SS36" Griddle
  • Ozzie_IsaacOzzie_Isaac Posts: 8,920
    DMW said:
    Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?
    I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...
    Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

    If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher .... well, this is a family forum.
    If it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

    XL, Medium, Minimax, Mini, Blackstone, WSM
  • DMW said:
    Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?
    I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...
    Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

    If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher .... well, this is a family forum.
    Thats mighty big talk. Sounds like something I'd say knowing damn well if mine put one in there I would ask her not to do it again and then promptly use it as an excuse to go buy another one. 

    Little Rock, AR

  • theyolksonyoutheyolksonyou Posts: 16,367
    DMW said:
    Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?
    I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...
    Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

    If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher ....  I'd say thank you for cleaning up my mess. I'm sorry you had to do it. 

    Jason NW GA- home of carpet and Mexican restaurants
    LBGE, MM, BS (Blackstone and the other kind)
    One sorry Labrador

    My chili did not suck. 
  • Ozzie_IsaacOzzie_Isaac Posts: 8,920
    edited August 2017
    DMW said:
    Just to rule it out, are you putting it in the dishwasher?
    I hope Ozzie isn't stabbing his wife with it...
    Never use dishwashers for my knives, I hand wash all of them myself.

    If I caught my wife putting it in the dishwasher .... well, this is a family forum.
    Thats mighty big talk. Sounds like something I'd say knowing damn well if mine put one in there I would ask her not to do it again and then promptly use it as an excuse to go buy another one. 
    Yeah, my wife doesn't read this forum.  Its my safe zone, were I pretend to wear the pants.  ;)
    If it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

    XL, Medium, Minimax, Mini, Blackstone, WSM
  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 5,050
    I vaguely recall reading somewhere a few months ago some discussion about this problem. The thinking was that apparently some batches of the knives weren't being heat treated properly and were coming in at a lower HRC than Misen intended.

    If you can find a really skilled pro that uses water stones in your area it might be worth taking it to them just so they can give you some feedback on what they "feel" when they sharpen it. They may be able to judge if the steel is hard based on the feedback they feel when working it on the stones.

    I also have a Misen (via Kickstarter) but I haven't really used it so much that it has needed sharpening yet so I can't really say how it compares in that regard.
    Camped out in the (757/804)
  • RRPRRP Posts: 22,155
    edited August 2017

    Yeah, my wife doesn't read this forum.  Its my safe zone, were I pretend to wear the pants.  ;)
    Guess your old daddy (@Jeepster47) hasn't admitted yet getting back at you for swiping all those steaks out of his freezer back here in IL! How do you think he split those pieces of wild cherry he gave me? 
    L, M, S, &  Mini
    And oh yes...also a 17" BlackStone gas fired griddle! 
    Ron
    Dunlap, IL
    Re- gasketing AMERICA one yard at a time!
  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 5,050
    I was trying to find that conversation I referenced earlier but couldn't. Looking around in other forums one of the common complaints about Aus 8 steel (as is used in the Misen) is that it is easy to sharpen to a razor edge but doesn't hold it's edge long.

    Of course edge retention really depends on how a knife is used, how often, and what it is cutting.

    Personally, as just a home chef and not a pro using knives for hours every day, I've never been too concerned about edge retention. A knife gets dull you just sharpen it. However, if your Misen is really noticeably dulling in just a couple weeks of the use you describe (you're not pretending it's a Ginzu and chopping thru blocks of frozen spinach right? :) ) that is a bit concerning.
    Camped out in the (757/804)
  • Ozzie_IsaacOzzie_Isaac Posts: 8,920
    HeavyG said:
    I was trying to find that conversation I referenced earlier but couldn't. Looking around in other forums one of the common complaints about Aus 8 steel (as is used in the Misen) is that it is easy to sharpen to a razor edge but doesn't hold it's edge long.

    Of course edge retention really depends on how a knife is used, how often, and what it is cutting.

    Personally, as just a home chef and not a pro using knives for hours every day, I've never been too concerned about edge retention. A knife gets dull you just sharpen it. However, if your Misen is really noticeably dulling in just a couple weeks of the use you describe (you're not pretending it's a Ginzu and chopping thru blocks of frozen spinach right? :) ) that is a bit concerning.
    No ginzu penny chopping action.  Onions, peppers, tomatoes, scallions, garlic, ginger, etc.

    One thing that really annoyed me was slicing banannas in their skin.  It mushed slighly ripe bananas two weeks after sharpening.  I had to drag slice instead of my typical western type chop.
    If it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

    XL, Medium, Minimax, Mini, Blackstone, WSM
  • sctdgsctdg Posts: 270
    edited August 2017
    I was part of the original kickstarter group for Misen.  I got my knife late last year.  I use it only for veggies (no bones anywhere near it) and on an end grain maple cutting board.

    My issue is it dulls fast.  Initial edge lasted 6 months, using it about 3 times a week for meal prep.  My other regular duty knife lasts well over a year with a few hits on steel.

    I resharpened to their 15 degree edge with a WS-KO.  Same process I use for my medium grade Heinckel.  I struggled to get it to take a decent edge and that edge lasted about 2 weeks.

    I contacted Misen, and they recommended taking it to a pro sharpening shop.  I have no issues with my other knives taking edges or staying sharp.

    Has anyone else had similar experiences?  Does the knife take a different sharpening style?  I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.

    For your WS-KO get the blade grinding attachment and the cloth stropping belts . Sharpen your knives free hand . Works for me way better that the guides that originally came with it and you have less of a chance of putting scratch marks on side of knife .
    I use one of these for the in between times works real nice especially on my steak knives that get beat up from cutting on plates .

    Victorinox Diamond Honing Steel 12-Inch Oval with Hollow Core, Black Plastic Handle

    Amazon has it .

  • nolaeggheadnolaegghead Posts: 27,259
    I've heard reports that they sharpen well using the concrete on your driveway, and final polishing on terrazzo.
    ______________________________________________
    This is my signature line just so you're not confused.  Love me or hate me, I am forum Marmite.
    Large and Medium BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Akorn Jr, smoker with a 5k btu AC, gas grill, fire pit, pack of angry cats, two turntables and a microphone, my friend.  Registered republican.
    New Orleans, LA - we know how to eat 

  • gdenbygdenby Posts: 5,989
    My guess is that 15 degrees is too acute. Mushing vegetables often indicates a rolled edge. If you have a really good magnifying glass or jewelers loup, give it look.

    If rolled, take the edge back to 18, or even 20, but really polish the bevel. Hone the edge w. some 600 grit wet/dry paper.
  • FockerFocker Posts: 8,364
    edited August 2017
    I can sharpen annually on all of my knives and various steels by honing religiously.  But spreading the workload out helps too.

    The tapered tip, light weight, and ergo make this thing a bargain beast, the tip made quick work of grilled corn and use on bamboo.  Honed back to razor sharp no prob.

    Mine does have a couple of micro rust spots, no big deal.

    Hope you can get it back in working order.
    I'm not a huge fan of the KO belt system with play in the belts, you're not hitting the true acute angle.

    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • YukonRonYukonRon Posts: 12,436
    edited August 2017
    Quit using it to open your Firecraft boxes. (just kidding)
    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
  • GoooDawgsGoooDawgs Posts: 662
    What happens when you put it in the dishwasher?  I bought a cheap white handled knife that Aaron Franklin uses, and have noticed it will not stay sharp anymore, even after I run it through the sharpener. 

    Does the dishwasher permanently hurt it? 
    Milton, GA 
    XL BGE & FB300
  • Photo EggPhoto Egg Posts: 7,986
    GoooDawgs said:
    What happens when you put it in the dishwasher?  I bought a cheap white handled knife that Aaron Franklin uses, and have noticed it will not stay sharp anymore, even after I run it through the sharpener. 

    Does the dishwasher permanently hurt it? 
    Dishwasher works like a mini sand blasting machine. This is why yo do not put nice china or crystal in the DW. Same with your better knives.
    No, it will will not permanently damage the knife edge as it can be re sharpened but is will damage the polish of the blade and handle.
    Thank you,
    Darian

    Galveston Texas
  • DoubleEggerDoubleEgger Posts: 12,192
    Here's an article that will probably shed some light on to your Misen woes. 

    https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/
  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 5,050
    Here's an article that will probably shed some light on to your Misen woes. 

    https://www.wired.com/2016/10/review-misen-chefs-knife/
    Interesting article.  That was referenced in a different thread here some time ago about knives and was probably the one I mentioned earlier but couldn't remember. Glad you found that.

    J. Kenji did a review of the Misen a year earlier than the Wired article and had a different conclusion. To be fair tho he had one of the earlier runs - http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/09/best-cheap-chefs-knives-misen-equipment-review.html

    As I mentioned up-thread there apparently were some problems with some later batches of Misen knives. I got my Misen in the first batch via their Kisckstarter project. It's not my favorite knife but I think it is well worth the $55 I paid for it. 

    My knife doesn't seem to have the kind of problems @Ozzie_Isaac has mentioned. Coincidentally, he mentioned slicing a banana thru the peel and I had a banana a couple days ago that had a few brown spots so I thought I would see how my Misen worked on that. It chopped right thru - no slicing motion needed.

    Sucks that @Ozzie_Isaac is having problems with his. Hitting it with a few strokes of the honing rod before each use might ease his pain somewhat.



    Camped out in the (757/804)
  • odie91odie91 Posts: 456
    Interesting link. If those hardness tests are correct, I'd ask for a refund.    Then again, I am the guy who started a separate thread asking if cutco knives are any good lol ;)
  • Ozzie_IsaacOzzie_Isaac Posts: 8,920
    edited August 2017
    @DoubleEgger thanks for the link.  That sounds like it may be root of my issue.

    @HeavyG the honing rod defintely helps, but I would prefer not to use it daily.

    @YukonRon I only use my Shun's for opening boxes.
    If it is worth doing, it is worth overdoing.

    XL, Medium, Minimax, Mini, Blackstone, WSM
  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 5,050
    @DoubleEgger thanks for the link.  That sounds like it may be root of my issue.

    @HeavyG the honing rod defintely helps, but I would prefer not to use it daily.

    @YukonRon I only use my Shun's for opening boxes.
    C'mon now...those 10 seconds of theater while honing a knife is what makes people think they're in the presence of a real pro! :)
    Camped out in the (757/804)
  • HeavyGHeavyG Posts: 5,050
    odie91 said:
    Interesting link. If those hardness tests are correct, I'd ask for a refund.    Then again, I am the guy who started a separate thread asking if cutco knives are any good lol ;)
    Interestingly, the Misen uses a slightly higher grade of steel than Cutco uses - Misen = Aus8, Cutco = 440A.

    However, if one gets a knife where the metal may not have been properly heat treated it likely won't perform up to expectations.

    I would be inclined to ask Misen about getting a replacement as I'd be curious to see if their latest releases are actually any better.
    Camped out in the (757/804)
  • FockerFocker Posts: 8,364
    edited August 2017
    HeavyG said:
    @DoubleEgger thanks for the link.  That sounds like it may be root of my issue.

    @HeavyG the honing rod defintely helps, but I would prefer not to use it daily.

    @YukonRon I only use my Shun's for opening boxes.
    C'mon now...those 10 seconds of theater while honing a knife is what makes people think they're in the presence of a real pro! :)
    Gordon Ramsay is an absolute joy to watch with a knife, like Pepin.  The best part of Master Chef is watching his knife skill tutorial. He always hones before use, and frenched a rack of lamb flawlessly, made it look so damn easy.  I don't think he would struggle with a banana. 
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • tarheelmatttarheelmatt Posts: 9,371
    edited August 2017
    What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

    Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 
    ------------------------------
    Thomasville, NC
    My YouTube Channel
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  • FockerFocker Posts: 8,364
    What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

    Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 
    Serrated Dexter.
    Brandon
    Quad Cities
    "If yer gonna denigrate, familiarity with the subject is helpful."

  • tarheelmatttarheelmatt Posts: 9,371
    edited August 2017
    Focker said:
    What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

    Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 
    Serrated Dexter.
    Thanks ol buddy. I'll pass that on to my friend that really needs help. 
    ------------------------------
    Thomasville, NC
    My YouTube Channel
    Facebook
    My Photography Site
  • bgebrentbgebrent Posts: 16,627
    What's the best edge or knife do you pros recommend for cutting a hard boiled egg? Asking for a friend.  TIA 

    Edit- cutting cleanly not with a hand saw look. 
    Matt, that's a tough one!  I do most of my cutting on humans with a laser. I couldn't recommend that for an egg. I'd go with an Eastern machete. 
    Sandy Springs & Dawsonville Ga
  • DoubleEggerDoubleEgger Posts: 12,192
    What about a Leech Lake filet knife? 
  • theyolksonyoutheyolksonyou Posts: 16,367
    My Henckles work pretty well. 
    Jason NW GA- home of carpet and Mexican restaurants
    LBGE, MM, BS (Blackstone and the other kind)
    One sorry Labrador

    My chili did not suck. 
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