Aluminum pizza proofing pan....

dougcrann

Who uses them? We recently decided to try and improve our pizza skills. Bought a couple of books.. .been doing a bit of reading. Using these pans for refrigerated fermentation. What's the trick with getting the dough not to stick to them?

Carolina Q

I've never seen metal proofing trays. Just plastic and istr someone talking about wooden ones. I use these,

one per dough ball. Stackable. I don't use anything to prevent sticking. Balls come out fine. A little slowly, but fine.

I would think a light coating of oil on your pan would do it.

Ladeback69

Olive oil.  Lube the pans up, place dough in pan, cover with plastic wrap and let proof.  Then place in fridge over night.  Let them come to room temp before working with them the next day.

dougcrann

Ladeback69 said:

Olive oil.  Lube the pans up, place dough in pan, cover with plastic wrap and let proof.  Then place in fridge over night.  Let them come to room temp before working with them the next day.

Thanks...
Leave them covered while warming up? Guessing that by letting the dough warm to warm temperature it helps some with the dough sticking to the peel?

westernbbq

Polish each container with a drop or two of olive oil...very little olive oil goes a looong way

I use the glad conatiners but recently picked up a plastic 18 X 24 inch covered proofing tray from Phoenix Restaurant Supply.  I will get a pict of it posted here at some point...but the proofing tray from what ive been told is after the cold rise in glad containers.  I dont see why a proofing tray couldnt be used for the whole thing other than the fact that the one i have doesnt fit in fridge

Next time i make za ill post picts of the process..

Also bench flour is your best friend

dougcrann

westernbbq said:a

Polish each container with a drop or two of olive oil...very little olive oil goes a looong way

I use the glad conatiners but recently picked up a plastic 18 X 24 inch covered proofing tray from Phoenix Restaurant Supply.  I will get a pict of it posted here at some point...but the proofing tray from what ive been told is after the cold rise in glad containers.  I dont see why a proofing tray couldnt be used for the whole thing other than the fact that the one i have doesnt fit in fridge

Next time i make za ill post picts of the process..

Also bench flour is your best friend

Please do post some pictures. We bought a second fridge when I got interested in cooking. Now it is stuffed. Door has close to 30 pounds of smoked cheese...I LOVE smoked cheese. Thought about a proofing tray but have 0 space for one...the round pans are easier for us to deal with...
Thanks for your thoughts 

Focker

I use a Misto with EVOO, lightly spraying the inside of my Ziplok bags, or 1 qt Ziplok plastic containers, slides out with no sticking.  

westernbbq

will do @dougcrann...in fact momma and i discussed this AM hosting a small gathering this sat for nc2a final 4.    Pizza is the best choice to feed a crowd so if it happens, ill post picts of the process here

The proofing box i got hasnt been used yet but that could change this weekend and i guess the purpose of it is to 'wake up' the dough after a cold rise and get it ready for pizza rounds formation....and, since the one i got is so big, well it will be easy to transport all my dough disks at once.   This is new for me and i am pretty excited to try it so im hoping this weekend comes together nicely....

Stay tuned...

dougcrann

westernbbq said:

will do @dougcrann...in fact momma and i discussed this AM hosting a small gathering this sat for nc2a final 4.    Pizza is the best choice to feed a crowd so if it happens, ill post picts of the process here

The proofing box i got hasnt been used yet but that could change this weekend and i guess the purpose of it is to 'wake up' the dough after a cold rise and get it ready for pizza rounds formation....and, since the one i got is so big, well it will be easy to transport all my dough disks at once.   This is new for me and i am pretty excited to try it so im hoping this weekend comes together nicely....

Stay tuned...

Will be watching. Made some dough yesterday. Oiled the pans prior to dropping the dough balls in them. Really do need to figure out the shaping thing...Ernestina normally stretches the dough. But first thing she reaches for is a rolling pin. Have tried to explain to her that with the flour we are now using, Shepherds Low Gluten, she doesn't need to but...lol...
Battling with her on multiple fronts now. Not just the stretching/shaping but also that pizza crust doesn't necessarily need to be so rigid and chewy. Up to now we have been using King Arthur all purpose flour...and a recipe that gets you dough in less than 2-3 hours. While the pizzas are good I need something different. The few pizzas we have made with the Shepherds have come out good...Ernestina has mentioned that she likes how light and airy the crust is...
We have a ton to learn. Have a feeling that we will be making 2 personal sized pizzas instead of 1 large one...she is so set in what she likes....
Apologies for rambling....

westernbbq

No apologies Brotha!  We are all trying to up our game here.

Try Varasano's recipe- google his name and it will come up.  make a poolish battery starter and mix it in with your main dough.  High hydration (65% minimum) is what you're after.  The doughs i've made have either been light and airy- almost like focaccia or dense and chewy.  Maybe i over kneaded it.

New York Times Roberta's pizza dough recipe is good too.  easy to find online.

I use the little Glad containers for the cold rise to slow down the yeast growth and over rising of the dough and the proofing box is supposed to help get the dough going again and is nice for transporting 10-15 dough disks at a time.

And, as to stretching and shaping, the real key is to handle the dough gently, use lots of bench flour.  When i would make a bunch of za's out at my grilling station, i'd bring all the glad containers, dust the inside of the lids with bench flour and stack them 3 high upside down so the dough would pull away from the bottom.  NO ROLLING PIN as that pops the oven spring bubbles.  

I gently make a circle with the dough disks, and use my index finger to make the edge for the crust and gently stretch the dough with my knuckles (coated in bench flour of course) by using gravity and rotation to get as round a shape possible.  it usually works but sometimes i get an elongated rustica formed or a rounded triangular pizza shape.

Overall, what i've learned in all pizza making ventures is to not fight the dough.  it's important to let it rest right after ingredients are mixed with water and to let it rest after it's been kneaded.  20 mins or so each time.  if the dough pulls back when you're making rounds, forcing it is not a good idea.  let it rest more and coax it a little.  if that fails, start over.

i am hoping this weekend works because i have a batch of homemade italian sausage i want to use to top the zas and i really want to practice making dough....

dougcrann

@westernbbq...thanks for the advice. Ernestina, the wife, has been the one to do all the stretching/shaping...up til now. But I wanticipate to learn. Our running joke is she is trying to make a pizza to match all 50 states...
Last batch of dough I made came out ok. Problem we have had is Ernie INSISTS on using a rolling pin. She has been known to use an absolute minimum of flour on the work surface...and even less on her hands...but after watching a few videos...and reading some of the one book I have, The Elements of Pizza, hopefully that will change. 
I do have the NY Times recipe saved. It will be used here shortly.
What I am currently using...
Shepherds Low Gluten flour,  2.6% fine sea salt, .3% instant dried yeast and 70% water. Start with a water temperature of 95ish. Add salt, swish. Add yeast, after a minute or so swish til dissolved. Add flour. Combine ingredients. Let sit for 20 minutes, covered. Dust cutting board. Do a simple knead, stretching and folding for a minute or so. Let sit, covered, for 2 hours. Divide/shape dough balls. Previously dusted aluminum pans with flour...which resulted in a tugh of war to remove dough balls from pans. This time I coated the pans with olive oil. 48 hours later attempt to make a pizza. Sound about right?

pab

I asked for this proofing box for Christmas 2015. I use it to proof bread/pizza dough and to do a second rise when I remove dough from the fridge. I also use it once a week to culture Greek yogurt at 105*. It folds flat and I store with the lids for my pots and pans. 

westernbbq

that folding proofing box looks like a solution to my limited storage issues

In the meantime @dougcrann, take a look at the pict of the dough i made tonite...

2000g KA AP
1400g H2O
64g sea salt
4g active dry yeast



Mixed by hand until shaggy, covered and let sit for 20 mins, mixed by hand again for 5-7 mins until it felt like slack wet dough and covered.   Leaving it on the counter  in a 73degree kitchen, typical for phoenix this time of year for 18 hrs... Honestly cant remember the last time the furnace was run, maybe Christmas, and the ac was last run in mid october.   So, we will see how it turns out.   I am really starting to get the feel of the dough when it starts coming together.   See pict below, stay tuned for how this za cook will come together tomorrow.  Using bge and uuni by the way...

nolaegghead

Didn't read anything but the original post, so I apologize in advance if this technique as been previously mentioned:

I've really made A LOT of dough in my time.  I don't post cooks, yada yada, you don't have to believe me.

I've settled on making large batches of dough.  Letting them ferment at room temp to get a start, then dividing the dough into pizza or bread sized portions where I take a quart or gallon zip-loc freezer bag, SPRAY IT WITH OIL, and drop my dough ball in. 

Let it ferment in the fridge...if you don't use, put it in the freezer. 

When you're ready to bake some pies or bread, you can tear the bag open at the seams/edges and drop it on to a dusted surface.  Re-shape (but don't FVCK with it too much) and let it warm up and rise, and you carry on, so to speak, make whatever.  And it works, and it's efficient and easy.

Whew. That's it.

Oh, the original proofing pan?  Fine, any nice gear that makes you feel motivated to cook IMO is good.  Not necessary.  This stuff has been cooked for centuries by people living in grass huts over wood fires.

Dredger

@pab, I also have the Brod & Taylor and it does a great job and, as you said, it folds up when not needed. Not sure if you knew or not, but they now make an add on tray to double the proofing area. Comes in handy when needed. Use mine mostly for yeast rolls. We keep our house on the cool side year round and it provides a reliable method for proofing at the correct temp. I also agree with @nolaegghead that a ziploc bag sprayed with oil works fine for the refrigerated dough. Saves fridge space since you don't have to worry about fitting a rigid container in there.

pab

@Dredger, I too use the ziplock bag when refrigerating the dough and use the proofing box when I take the dough out of the fridge. I have thought about getting the added rack but haven't pulled the trigger. @nolaegghead, I agree the fancy gear isn't necessary, but when someone asks what do you want for Christmas I had to have an answer lol. It is really handy for the yogurt making as before I had it I used a cooler with hot tap water that I needed to change out a couple of times to keep the temp up high enough to culture the yogurt. Toys are nice.

westernbbq

Heres the batch from last nite, untouched since 11pm as of about 730 am...increased in size 2.5x....

westernbbq

correction:  KA BREAD flour was used, not All Purpose....

Sorry for my mistake...

westernbbq

Ok made pizza tonite for final four games. 12 pies.  What i learned is handling the dough is really important and getting a feel for when its dough and when its ready to be a pizza is super important.   The za tonite had awesome flavor in the crust.  Nice thin crispy outside, airy, light and non doughy inside, especially in crust edges.  

Super excited about how this batch turned out....

Dredger

Looking good and well worth the effort. Hard to beat a good homemade pizza.

westernbbq

thanks @Dredger, and whats interesting is the people who joined us last night for za couldnt believe that this was scatch made dough.  They thought it was from a local pizzeria that sells its dough...very good flavor

 A few more takeaways from last night: mix dry ingredients first..salt/flour/yeast and then add water.   Mixing by hand or with wooden spoon works best.  Dont overmix dough, resting periods are crucial, when you  make dough balls do four folds of each portion. North south east and west and fold toward center and put seam side down in proofing box;   let sit in proofing box for 2 hrs before making pies, any less time will result in noncooperative tight pullback dough disks; dough rise does not have to happen in fridge...cooler temp just slows things down which can be needed but warmer temp means less rise time on counter, 70% hydration is key and gently handling the dough, spreading gently with your knuckles is the key to getting a nice evenly shaped/rounded pie...green egg is great for baking crust and uuni is great for getting the top of the pie ingredients done right.  Optimal temp for pizza on bge is 650F


The pizza was a hit and we fed nine adults and five kids with $5.49 of premium flour, and about $40.00 worth of veggies, pepperoni, cheese, tomato sauce, sausage and olive oil....this is a little misleading because i have one can of tomatoes unopened and we didnt use all the pepperoni or sausage and ive got two 16, oz bags of mozzarella left.  Buffalo mozz was on sale at safeway for $2.49 for an 8 oz ball and i picked up three.  Still have one unused.  The olive oil i bought has about 80% left in the bottle and we used all the onion, green pepper, mushrooms, black olives.  Basil and arugula are grown in the back yard so these didnt cost anything except 5 per plant when i bought them at home depot back in december.  So if i really planned this out carefully i could probably do it all for $35 or so...get stuff on sale, etc. Fuel for uuni was pellets, fuel for the xl and minimax was trimmimgs from my two mesquite trees...and i just started wood fires and after an hour the sticks were glowimg orange and they stayed hot a long time...


Max impact, awesome food, minimum cost.    I didnt need the uuni but it was nice to have as a backup and to char some tops when needed. Ie soggy artichoke hearts.

westernbbq

Yesterday was 19th anniversary so the Mrs wanted to try out the Trattoria, Chris Bianco's latest Italian restaurant concept.   5 course meal including wood roasted chicken with rosemary and lemon puree, pasta coated in roasted artichoke and garlic puree and perhaps the best wood fired broccolini on the planet.  And then there's Chris, comes up to the table, wishes us a happy anniversary, gives me a high five and thanks us for choosing his humble establishment to celebrate our anniversary.  

Anyone in egg nation who ever is in phoenix area and who appreciates high quality food prepared by an artist needs to eat here or at pizzeria bianco 

Awesome experience.  Cibatta they serve there is amazing....