OT car/ATS advise or opinion

Jeremiah

Holy crap! That's not your momma's Cadillac!!

DoubleEgger

Jeremiah said:

Holy crap! That's not your momma's Cadillac!!

No kidding 

WeberWho

Eoin said:

How do up market US cars compare to European brands these days - price and quality? We hardly see US cars over here.

What I found interesting when visiting Europe a couple years ago is that I could hardly find a car that was 5 years old or older. It seemed like everyone was driving newer model cars. The average US car is almost 12 years old. Am I super far off on that @Eoin ? I asked my English friend why I didn't see any older cars on the road. His response was, "people just get rid of them". 

ryantt

@Jeremiah it's a crazy fast car....I give 3weeks to the first ticket.    We hoped on the expressway with the e sales guy and before I realized it she was hitting 110.  She had no idea it happened that fast.   Lol.  He was a little green as this was his first test drive with someone like her.   

Eoin

@WeberWho it depends on which country you are in and how strict the inspection is. In Germany it is strict, so you don't see old beat up cars around much. France has tightened up a bit now, but they used to drive some shocking old crap as a matter of routine.

In the UK there have been a few things driving a change in attitude. When things crashed in 2008 the Govt did a scrappage scheme to keep car sales going and this took out a lot of perfectly servicable older cars that were not worth anything cash but got a trade in bonus if scrapped. Then we have had stupid low interest rates since 2008 as well, so cash wise it has been as cheap to lease a new car as to finance an old one. Once you are in the lease game, it's easier to keep rolling into a new one. This will be less attractive once rates go up, if that ever happens! Finally, there's not many people willing or able to spend the time to keep an older car going. They don't have the skills growing up with rubbish cars that break all the time and labour rates make it hard to justify repair costs when you can lease so cheaply. Our annual inspection is quite strict as well, so you can't get away with the no maintenance option!

Wolfpack

I had one as a rental the other day- keep in mind I drove it for 2 days only.

i liked it a lot better than expected- decent power and seats were comfortable.

It had a touchback interface that once I got used to worked well- 

no no idea of longevity but I suspect it will fall in with the norm- worse than Lexus but depending how long you keep cheaper long term than German models.  

WeberWho

Eoin said:

@WeberWho it depends on which country you are in and how strict the inspection is. In Germany it is strict, so you don't see old beat up cars around much. France has tightened up a bit now, but they used to drive some shocking old crap as a matter of routine.

In the UK there have been a few things driving a change in attitude. When things crashed in 2008 the Govt did a scrappage scheme to keep car sales going and this took out a lot of perfectly servicable older cars that were not worth anything cash but got a trade in bonus if scrapped. Then we have had stupid low interest rates since 2008 as well, so cash wise it has been as cheap to lease a new car as to finance an old one. Once you are in the lease game, it's easier to keep rolling into a new one. This will be less attractive once rates go up, if that ever happens! Finally, there's not many people willing or able to spend the time to keep an older car going. They don't have the skills growing up with rubbish cars that break all the time and labour rates make it hard to justify repair costs when you can lease so cheaply. Our annual inspection is quite strict as well, so you can't get away with the no maintenance option!

Hey thanks for the explanation @Eoin That makes sense with all the regulations. I asked my friend where all the used cars go and he said they get scrapped. I couldn't believe that. Mind boggling that 8 year old cars are getting scrapped. I suppose the cost to ship them elsewhere isn't worth the time/money/hassle. Very interesting. Thanks Eoin

Eoin

WeberWho said:

Eoin said:

@WeberWho it depends on which country you are in and how strict the inspection is. In Germany it is strict, so you don't see old beat up cars around much. France has tightened up a bit now, but they used to drive some shocking old crap as a matter of routine.

In the UK there have been a few things driving a change in attitude. When things crashed in 2008 the Govt did a scrappage scheme to keep car sales going and this took out a lot of perfectly servicable older cars that were not worth anything cash but got a trade in bonus if scrapped. Then we have had stupid low interest rates since 2008 as well, so cash wise it has been as cheap to lease a new car as to finance an old one. Once you are in the lease game, it's easier to keep rolling into a new one. This will be less attractive once rates go up, if that ever happens! Finally, there's not many people willing or able to spend the time to keep an older car going. They don't have the skills growing up with rubbish cars that break all the time and labour rates make it hard to justify repair costs when you can lease so cheaply. Our annual inspection is quite strict as well, so you can't get away with the no maintenance option!

Hey thanks for the explanation @Eoin That makes sense with all the regulations. I asked my friend where all the used cars go and he said they get scrapped. I couldn't believe that. Mind boggling that 10 year old cars are getting scrapped. I suppose the cost to ship them elsewhere isn't worth the time/money/hassle. Very interesting. Thanks Eoin

And these 10 year old cars are normally cosmetically very good as body corrosion is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. One expensive repair on a 10 year old car and they get binned.

Legume

So what's the incentive to build a better car, one that will run for 150-200k+ miles?  Do you think some manufacturers are factoring this into their design and quality?

lousubcap

I think @Eoin said it well with the low interest rates/payments lease schemes these days.  It seems the car maintenance cycle is getting to the point where you hardly have to do anything (oil change excepted) and then the lease is up and on to the next one.  I am not in that cycle but see where it can appeal to anyone who needs a new ride every X years.  My current driver is a 2001 with 176K on the clock. 
Even with the average of us cars around 11-12 years old I think the trend will tend down over time.  But what do I know-and with all the add on bells and whistles designed to relieve the driver of any responsibility to actually drive the car who knows where it will lead.  

ryantt

@lousubcap I would lease my car if I could, but I drive to much.  I'm 23-26k a year depending on what offices I have to spend time at.   My current VW is 14mos old and ive got 26500 miles on it. So needless to say I buy new drive until dead and get the next one.  I hope to get 7years out of this one.    My wife on the other hand only drives 8-10k a year so she gets the nice new fancy/fast cars. 

DoubleEgger

I'm going to seriously consider this next time. 

http://www.driveclutch.com/

lousubcap

@DoubleEgger -  that is a model that will have some traction...unfortunately my latest (and finishing, every day is Saturday) lifestyle makes it too impractical here.
That said, I would venture very few will offer a clutch for the driver to enjoy.