Pastrami flat selection?

MrCookingNurse

Any if you guys who make pastrami, where do you get your flats? Anyone use the vacuumed ones from the store? Buy a whole packer and trim?

my butcher just sells cryo packers and they are good for a whole smoke, but the flats can be thin. 

bgebrent

MrCookingNurse said:

Any if you guys who make pastrami, where do you get your flats? Anyone use the vacuumed ones from the store? Buy a whole packer and trim?

my butcher just sells cryo packers and they are good for a whole smoke, but the flats can be thin. 

I trimmed a whole packer and used the point for pastrami and the flat for corned beef.  The point is more traditional for pastrami but a flat could work.

whldch

I used vacuum packed corned beef from BJ's twice, once I bought a really nice flat from a local mega store. I did see that BJ's sells corned beef round as well as flat, which I will try next time. Raichlin did a show recently on pastrami and used the round which came out nice. I don't need to make enough to justify getting a packer. Remember the meat shrinks down a lot during lo and slo.

Ladeback69

@MrCookingNurse, are talking about curing one from scratch or using the corn beef ones?  I have only used the corn beef ones in cryo vac's.  I usually soak them in water for a couple days to pull some of the salt out.  Remember to change out the water after 24 hours.  You can do one day and add some potatoes I have been told as well.  When I do it fallow this recipe.  Seems to come out pretty good each time.

http://virtualweberbullet.com/cornedbeef.html

MrCookingNurse

@Ladeback69
i may be slightly off on my knowledge. I was looking at the VCS'd from Kroger. I thought that was a raw meat that needed to be brined, then smoked. Or is that already corned I just need to "dry" then smoke it?

fishlessman

do what bgebrent said, the point makes a world of a difference with pastrami and the boiled corned beef with the same brine on a flat makes great sandwiches as well

MrCookingNurse

@fishlessman
so you buy a whole brisket
brine it
split flat and point
smoke the point and corn the flat?

@Ladeback69
that recipie you linked was exactly what I meant. But I also thought of doing it from scratch. 

fishlessman

MrCookingNurse said:

@fishlessman
so you buy a whole brisket
brine it
split flat and point
smoke the point and corn the flat?

@Ladeback69
that recipie you linked was exactly what I meant. But I also thought of doing it from scratch. 

i either cheat and buy the corned beef done at the supermarket or my local english butcher shop will corn it for me and ill smoke the point. either way the point is just loads better than the flat.  he does not use the pink salts, alll the butchers here make grey corned beef

grey pastrami tied before smoking





to the op, if im making pastrami from a flat, i roll it tight and tie it, the now round slice fits a sandwich better

Ladeback69

MrCookingNurse said:

@fishlessman
so you buy a whole brisket
brine it
split flat and point
smoke the point and corn the flat?

@Ladeback69
that recipie you linked was exactly what I meant. But I also thought of doing it from scratch. 

I found this on Amazing Ribs.  I have always wanted to try and so one from scratch just haven't had the time to do it yet.

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/close_to_katzs_home_made_pastrami.html

Theophan

@MrCookingNurse -- There's two different things you might want to think through:

1)  If what you want to make is what's called Pastrami at a decent deli, you can't make that from the flat.  The fatty stuff that's in the point is just part of what makes pastrami pastrami.

2)  That said, though, if you don't like the fattier point, and what you really want is the leaner flat seasoned, cured and smoked like pastrami, then by all means use the flat and call it whatever you want to call it.  No one will arrest you if you call it pastrami!

I just wanted to clarify that if you really want to make pastrami that's like "real" pastrami, you can't make that from the flat.

MrCookingNurse

@Theophan
im going to take your word for it! You look like quiet the mans man in that pic. I'm going to sams tomorrow and will see what I can come up with. 

Amazing ribs has a great write up. I'm just not sure how much I wanna try my first go. It's kinda hectic at my place, wife keeps me on a short leash on the weekends. 

Theophan

MrCookingNurse said:

@Theophan
... You look like quiet the mans man in that pic...

<guffawing>  That's me in the picture, alright, but I'm a frail old guy, these days, no lumberjack.  Thanks for the chuckle, though!  

nolaegghead

Point, flat, flank....doesn't matter.  Pastrami is the treatment using a cure, smoke, spices.  Turkey is even used.

Usually it's more economical to buy a whole brisket.  If you want to cure (corn) the point or flat, separate it, or do the whole thing. 

While the point has more intermuscular fat, the flat has the cap.  It's not unusual to make a pastrami out of the flat. 

paqman

The flat and the point will work but I prefer the point.

For he brine and ideas, you can have a look here:

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1196872/montreal-smoked-meat-pastrami-style-deboned-short-ribs

And here:

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1187110/montreal-smoked-meat-it-is

I now can say that I prefer a wet brine.

The time spent in steam before eating is very important.

SmokeyPitt

I think the link @Ladeback69 posted from Amazingribs does a good job of explaining it.  I have used this recipe but cheated with a grocery store corned beef. I could only find a flat or round here in GA. 

Interesting discussion on the flat vs point for Pastrami.  I found this video about Katz and it does look like they brine/cure the entire brisket, then they use the flat for corned beef and the point for pastrami. 

If you are not planning to eat the whole hunk of pastrami at once, I found it easier just to slice it and steam only the amount you need rather than steaming the entire hunk of beef. You can also use steam to reheat it for future sammies. 

Theophan

nolaegghead said:

Point, flat, flank....doesn't matter.  Pastrami is the treatment using a cure, smoke, spices.  Turkey is even used.

HERESY!!!  HERESY!!!  HERESY!!!

(OK, just kidding...  I don't really care what you want to call pastrami.  But to continue ranting just for fun...)

Next you'll be trying to tell us that a glass of chilled vodka is a Martini...  Nope.  A Martini is gin and vermouth stirred with ice and strained into a martini glass, usually with an olive or a twist. A martini-like drink made with vodka isn't a martini, it's a vodka martini.  Chilled vodka without any vermouth isn't even a vodka martini, it's just chilled vodka.  And don't get me started on "chocolate martinis" <shudder>.  

Similarly, "turkey pastrami" isn't "pastrami" -- it's turkey pastrami.  No problem with turkey pastrami if that's what floats your boat.  But it's not "pastrami."  It's "turkey pastrami."  Look it up in the dictionary: "pastrami" is made from beef.  

Can you make turkey kielbasa?  Sure!  But it's not kielbasa -- it's turkey kielbasa...

When there's already a perfectly good word for something, and everybody knows what it means, why use that word for something else? It just makes confusing something that used to be clear.

fishlessman

really get the point or the whole packer if your going to do the work, the point is just better. st pats day is coming, two weeks after the corned beef is on sale, i stock up on corned beef points at that time just for pastrami. theres a place near me that makes smoked salmon pastrami sandwiches, tastes just like smoked gravlax

poster

fishlessman said:

really get the point or the whole packer if your going to do the work, the point is just better. st pats day is coming, two weeks after the corned beef is on sale, i stock up on corned beef points at that time just for pastrami. theres a place near me that makes smoked salmon pastrami sandwiches, tastes just like smoked gravlax

Not to hijack the original questions, but have you ever sous vided (<<word?) the corned beef, and then smoked or vice versa? I know you talked of steaming before, but just wondering if you could sous vide to get that texture somehow. Just trying to find a fool proof way to make great pastrami without having to buy a pressure cooker

fishlessman

poster said:

fishlessman said:

really get the point or the whole packer if your going to do the work, the point is just better. st pats day is coming, two weeks after the corned beef is on sale, i stock up on corned beef points at that time just for pastrami. theres a place near me that makes smoked salmon pastrami sandwiches, tastes just like smoked gravlax

Not to hijack the original questions, but have you ever sous vided (<<word?) the corned beef, and then smoked or vice versa? I know you talked of steaming before, but just wondering if you could sous vide to get that texture somehow. Just trying to find a fool proof way to make great pastrami without having to buy a pressure cooker

have not tried the sous vide on it. my pressure cooker is the 20 dollar bed bath beyond one that i bought just for pastrami.

MrCookingNurse

Found a cute little briskie at the Walmart. Now to finish cure recipie list.