New Knife (Nakiri)

SkySaw

I spend a significant part of my time at home cutting and chopping vegetables, and I really can't stand the 7.5 inch Henkels Santoku that I have been using for the past 5 years. So I treated myself to a Hattori Hanzo. 

Actually it's made by Tsunehisa. Stainless steel, handmade, and kinda expensive, but not ridiculously priced. I went to a store that specializes in fancy Japanese steel so that I could find something that felt right.This Nakiri is fairly light and has a 6.5 inch blade. I'm used to honing my knives with a steel rod and sharpening with a very old Spyderco ceramic sharpening kit. Realizing that I might need to change my knife maintenance strategy i asked them what I need to buy to keep this Nakiri sharp. They said nothing. Just treat it right and bring it in for free sharpening when it needs it (they use sharpening stones). If I want to sharpen on my own they would be happy to sell me some suitable stones and show me how to use them. Their philosophy is to use stones or nothing (they said that I should buy a ceramic honing rod if I really wanted to do that, but that I should just sharpen it on the stone it if I think it needs honing).

Do you users of fancy Japanese steel knives agree with this? Not honing sounds odd to me. If you hone, what do you use?

DoubleEgger

Sounds like a deal to me. Let them handle the sharpening. Beautiful knife. I used my nakiri this evening. 

SkySaw

DoubleEgger said:

Sounds like a deal to me. Let them handle the sharpening. Beautiful knife. I used my nakiri this evening. 

Thanks - actually it was your prior forum posts about your Nakiri that helped me to realize that it was probably my next knife.

Lit

I agree with them 1000 percent. I won't put my knives near a rod. I bought a ceramic rod that was very fine grit and my knife was to the point I thought it was getting noticeably more dull and the ceramic rod made it more dull if anything. If a rod makes your knives sharper you have dull knives. I hone my knives on a 6000 grit stone between sharpening or will just do a couple passes on the 1000 then hit the 6000 if it's been awhile. I have said exactly what the store told you on the forum before and everyone argued about rods are great. 

SkySaw

It's great to get some confirmation of what they were telling me in the store. I guess that ultimately I should be looking to get a a really fine stone (you suggest a 6000 grit) to keep a nice edge. I will probably leave the full sharpening to them for the first couple of years.

Killit_and_Grillit

On all my high dollar blades I have a girl in town that sharpens them. 

If if someone wants to sharpen it for you I say great. They hold the liability and are probably better at it than a novice. 

PS great looking blade by the way. 

EggHeadinFlorida

That's a bad ass looking knife!

Its awesome they will sharpen it when it needs to be done. Sharpening a knife is a art. unless you know what your doing, you will turn that expensive knife into a paper weight. Grant it, your not sharpening your buck knife in the field. Your knife is a delicate tool and must be treated as such. Hell, throw them guys at the shop a few bucks when ever you bring your knife in. They will remember that and take care of you.

GrateEggspectations

Nice acquisition. I love the nakiris. My vote is to forego the free sharpening and buy a water stone (combo medium and fine grit) such that you can do it yourself. Practice on a cheap knife first.

There is something to be said for "becoming one" with your knife. Doing it yourself will give you an understanding of when your knife is sharp, when it's dull, how you build a burr, blade angles, how you straighten the edge, etc. This will also ensure that you will keep your knife at its optimum performance, rather than simply noticing it's dull and periodically rectifying that. 

A sharp knife is a safe knife and is much more fun to use!

Lit

This is the stone I use. It's 1000 on one side and 6000 on the other. I originally bought it to learn and its worked well enough that I never felt I needed to upgrade. The 1000 you can sharpen with and 6000 hone with. 6000 is fine enough to get it to shave your arm with. https://www.amazon.com/King-1000-Combination-Waterstone-Large/dp/B0034YR016/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1483619464&sr=8-5&keywords=King+1000/6000#customerReviews

Eggcelsior

Agree with other recs. You don't use a honing stone on Japanese blades since they a) have a more acute edge and b) are harder steel. honing can actually cause small chips in the blade.

gmac

I'm really curious what steel that is made of. I'm assuming some sort of enhanced stainless like ATS-34 or something from AUS. I'm dabbling in making a knives right now and am getting some 440C for a hunting blade. But after seeing that beauty I wonder if a kitchen knife wouldn't be fun too. Of course hardening stainless is a pain in the arse compared to 01 so either way I will have to send it out to harden.

Thats a gorgeous knife. I'm envious. Just can't bring myself to spend the cash. And I actually just ordered that King 1000/6000 stone off amazon. Will let you know how it goes for an amateur. 

Photo Egg

Nice knife.
Can you provide a web link to your knife?

fishlessman

japanese bevel angles are small and some single bevel, one of those rods would do damage to it. the blades can be incredibly hard, i went to diamond stones with these, i was wearing out the regular stones to quickly. 

DoubleEgger

The honing stone bends the metal back into place. The super hard metal on the Japanese knifes would tend to chip/break before being bent back into shape. 

gdenby

Steel rod hones are mostly not hard enough for high end steel, and far to coarse. A ceramic hone is better. But you may make the edge angle wobble. Better to use a strop and some diamond paste to refine the edge between professional sharpening.

Better modern steels in home use stay really sharp for months. Even after a year, the edges will be better than 3 months w. older blades that often were not well heat treated.

SkySaw

gmac said:

I'm really curious what steel that is made of. I'm assuming some sort of enhanced stainless like ATS-34 or something from AUS. I'm dabbling in making a knives right now and am getting some 440C for a hunting blade. But after seeing that beauty I wonder if a kitchen knife wouldn't be fun too. Of course hardening stainless is a pain in the arse compared to 01 so either way I will have to send it out to harden.

Thats a gorgeous knife. I'm envious. Just can't bring myself to spend the cash. And I actually just ordered that King 1000/6000 stone off amazon. Will let you know how it goes for an amateur. 

They tell me it's made from SRS15 steel. In addition to the feel of the knife, I liked the fact that the steel is reputed to hold an edge for a long time, and that the steel is hardy (resistant to rusting, staining, etc.).

There are two specialty Japanese knife stores in Toronto. The first one I called was Tosho Knife Arts (a great store - it was featured on Anthony Bourdain's episode on Toronto); I asked if they had any moderately priced Nakiri's in stock and they asked what I meant by 'moderately'. I suggested anything less than $300, to which the response was 'no'. Their current lowest priced Nakiri is $365, but maybe they are low on stock right after the Christmas season, I don't know, because I didn't go there. When I called Knife Toronto, they had a bunch less than $300, so I went to check out the inventory. The knife I bought was just under $250. The way I look at it, I spend quite a bit of time on a daily basis using it; if $250 can increase my enjoyment of a daily task, then it is well worth it (it's kind of the same approach to using the BGE to cook meals).

Good luck with your craft. If you ever have a bit of free time in Toronto you should check out these shops for some inspiration.

fishlessman

the rockwell hardness on that knife is 64 to 66, you dont want to sharpen that on your own unless you just like sharpening. i have one knife that hard, its been sharp for 12 years, and it will hollow out a stone in no time if you try

milesofsmiles

I would use a pro .

SkySaw

Photo Egg said:

Nice knife.
Can you provide a web link to your knife?

I'm afraid that I can't. This was purely a bricks-and-mortar purchase. The store I went to carries very limited stock, which I assumed was carefully chosen. They assured me that all their stock was excellent quality at its price point and I trusted them. After that I selected that particular knife based on its feel and qualities of its use. I had never heard of Tsunehisa before I purchased it. Apparently it is a small shop in Kyoto that has been making knives since the 1700's.

SkySaw

fishlessman said:

the rockwell hardness on that knife is 64 to 66, you dont want to sharpen that on your own unless you just like sharpening. i have one knife that hard, its been sharp for 12 years, and it will hollow out a stone in no time if you try

The store told me that they expect that the hardness number is somewhere between 60-63. I agree that it is probably a very hard blade. I hope mine stays sharp for a long time - I'd be very happy with a year.

The advice here has been great. I'm going to take it to them to sharpen when I feel that it needs it. At that time I'm going to take a class with them to learn how to sharpen on my own using stones, and take it from there. I'd rather be independent with my sharpening needs.

I'm taking things slowly with this knife. It is very different from the Henkels that I have been using for most of my cooking life. Also learning that I have some bad habits with my knife use. For example, I notice that I make a cut, and then drag the blade away from the cut - probably to make sure that the cut has gone all the way through what I'm cutting. 

gmac

Wow, that's hard. 
I think a class is a great idea because you can sharpen your Henkels and such and still let them do this one. 
I didn't realize you were in Canada. I will definitley check them out since the Mrs is from Scarborough so I get forced there a few times a year.