Fresh ham

Kabinski2013

I want to smoke a fresh ham this weekend so I'm looking for recipes and ideas.  I have a 6lbs ham for 12 people.  Ready go!

Darby_Crenshaw

It's a roast, really. So you can cook it that way. Low until maybe 140, although i'd probably take it to 150 or so, since it is darker meat than a loin roast would be. 

You could also treat it like a shoulder and do it low and slow to pullable temps, say 200-205

If you want to cook it like a 'ham'-ham, you cam do that too. Score it, rub it with mustard, brown sugar, etc. 

or just score it and smoke it until 140. 

You can do it it any number of ways. Depends what you are looking for 

NPHuskerFL

Fresh "green" uncured?  I'm guessing at only 6# it's bone out. Too late to even start a wet cure. You could do a decent brine and smoke like a shoulder. Sorry to say but, it's gonna be similar to a butt or picnic due to no cure.  

Darby_Crenshaw

no need to cure it. It's a fine thing all its own as a roast. 

NPHuskerFL

Darby_Crenshaw said:

no need to cure it. It's a fine thing all its own as a roast. 

Agreed. But, it's NOT a Ham w/o a cure whether it be a dry cure or wet cure. By very definition of ham it is cured. It is pork and it'll be delicious.  

Darby_Crenshaw

'Ham' also refers to the uncured hind leg. 

The reason a cured ham is called a ham is because it was a ham before it was a ham

NPHuskerFL

Darby_Crenshaw said:

'Ham' also refers to the uncured hind leg. 

The reason a cured ham is called a ham is because it was a ham before it was a ham

Agree to disagree. You can smoke it and get great color etc but, not the same flavor as "ham". I've done both a green leg of pork simple smoke...similar to a picnic in the end. And same cut w/ a wet cure. Huge difference in flavor between the two. Never said it wouldn't be excellent or work as a roast. 

Darby_Crenshaw

It's not a disagreement bro

'Ham' refers to two separate things. One is the UNCURED hind leg of a pig. The other is the same thing, the hind leg, but cured

Pork 101

my point was. The only reason you are calling a cured ham a "ham" is because they started curing the fresh leg (a cut of meat referred to as the 'ham'), and THAT became the thing most people are familiar with

i've been preaching this stuff a long time my friend. And studied the sh!t out of it


It is entirely correct in terminology to refer to the UNCURED ass end leg/cut/roast as a 'ham'. The fact that most americans now only are familiar with it when cured is not the issue

NPHuskerFL

Ok @Darby_Crenshaw
Back to the OP... I liked your idea of the score it, rub with mustard brown sugar etc. A whiskey or bourbon glaze is a family favorite with us. Smoking with sugar maple I've found gives a nice color and taste. I'm not big on injections but, I'm sure that others have had success stories using that method as well. 

Darby_Crenshaw

for the record, was just trying to clarify that OP was asking about "fresh ham", and that although our common understanding for "ham" implies a cured hind leg, "ham" only actually means the hind leg, whether or not it is cured. his term "fresh ham" is the standard term for when you mean an uncured hind leg.

and so my answer to him was about cooking this uncured ham, which is ultimately just a leg roast.

i wasn't implying that cooking it would turn it into a typical cured ham, and i don't think OP is expecting a cured ham either.

hence my being overly clear when it seemed you thought either he or i was saying he had a "(cured) ham" or would end up with one. i don't think he or i mentioned cured at all.

for what it's worth

Carolina Q

Not to hijack, but if I wanted to roast a fresh ham, but couldn't find one smaller than 20 lbs, would the front leg taste similar?

Darby_Crenshaw

well, it's pork.  and they both get a lot of action (the shoulders)

porchetta usually uses a front shoulder i think (though you can do it with anything of course).

people often say the rear leg (uncured) can taste 'hammy', but i think that's mental more than reality.  in reality, the rear leg has a giant hunk of white meat (whiter, i mean).  I had one cured only half way, and the outer portion that was cured was 'ham' in the conventional sense.  the uncured was just a roast. 

the front and rear are very similar, sure. i would sub the shoulder for the rear if you had to or wanted to, with no qualms.

buckboard bacon made from the shoulder tastes a lot like ham from the rear, no?

nolaegghead

Ham is cured.

fishlessman

Darby_Crenshaw said:

well, it's pork.  and they both get a lot of action (the shoulders)

porchetta usually uses a front shoulder i think (though you can do it with anything of course).

people often say the rear leg (uncured) can taste 'hammy', but i think that's mental more than reality.  in reality, the rear leg has a giant hunk of white meat (whiter, i mean).  I had one cured only half way, and the outer portion that was cured was 'ham' in the conventional sense.  the uncured was just a roast. 

the front and rear are very similar, sure. i would sub the shoulder for the rear if you had to or wanted to, with no qualms.

buckboard bacon made from the shoulder tastes a lot like ham from the rear, no?

you can also buy a smoked cured shoulder for boiled dinners, pretty sure its just a new england thing

Darby_Crenshaw

Nola, I know you love to drop the hammer, and perfunctorily answer the question for the group... but 'ham' is not always cured.

not to take away from your authority here, but 'ham' is a term long used in reference to the hind leg, uncured.

i fully agree that if you ask anyone in a grocery store what a ham is, they'll tell you it is a cured ass end.  but that's the generic definition.

you can point to an uncured leg of a pig and refer to it as  ham, absolutel;y. 
otherwise there's no need to refer to it with the modifier 'fresh' or 'green'. 

the oldest definition of the word, and referring to any animal, not merely a pig, is for the hind leg of an animal.  no reference to curing.  check your OED.

this 'curing' association is later, and you'll see plenty of people (in the curing literature) using the term to refer to the fresh chunk of meat, not the end product.

Darby_Crenshaw

USDA:

"The word HAM means pork which comes from the hind leg of a hog. Ham made from the front leg of a hog will be labeled "pork shoulder picnic." "Turkey" Ham must be made from the thigh meat of turkey.

Hams may be fresh, cured, or cured-and-smoked. The usual color for cured ham is deep rose or pink; fresh ham (which is not cured) has the pale pink or beige color of a fresh pork roast; country hams and prosciutto (which are dry cured) range from pink to mahogany color.

Hams are either ready-to-eat or not. Ready-to-eat hams include prosciutto and fully cooked hams; they can be eaten right out of the package. Fresh hams and hams that are only trichina treated must be cooked by the consumer before eating; these hams will bear the safe handling label."

Carolina Q

Thanks guys. I suspect I might as well just get a loin and forget ham all together. I'm trying to avoid the huge amt of sodium in cured ham, but I'm craving ham! Pointless I guess. 

Nola, cured ham is cured. 

nolaegghead

Uncured ham, or fresh ham is not cured.  I'm talking about the lexicon we use -  that the average street person uses.  The etymology of "ham" refers to the crook of the leg, evolved to back pig legs.  Look up "ham" on google, read the first 50 hits.  Look it up on wiki.  If you can find a package at the store that says "Ham" by itself and in fine print says uncured, I'll wear a dress and post it on line.

I didn't open this door, I'm just screwing with it.  Slow day. Not trying to piss anyone off.

nolaegghead

Look at the etymology of the word "Lox". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lox

Comes from the German word for salmon.  I don't need to go on.

fishlessman

nolaegghead said:

Uncured ham, or fresh ham is not cured.  I'm talking about the lexicon we use -  that the average street person uses.  The etymology of "ham" refers to the crook of the leg, evolved to back pig legs.  Look up "ham" on google, read the first 50 hits.  Look it up on wiki.  If you can find a package at the store that says "Ham" by itself and in fine print says uncured, I'll wear a dress and post it on line.

I didn't open this door, I'm just screwing with it.  Slow day. Not trying to piss anyone off.

the title of the thread is "fresh ham"

nolaegghead

I know

nolaegghead

Finished this scotch smoked salmon Tuesday . 

nolaegghead

nolaegghead

nolaegghead

7.5 lbs was 5.5 when done.

nolaegghead

This is not uncured lox

lewisj82

Here's my fresh ham I did a year or so ago. I did another one this same way around Easter time. Both were pretty fantastic.

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1176150/fresh-ham

Carolina Q

lewisj82 said:

Here's my fresh ham I did a year or so ago. I did another one this same way around Easter time. Both were pretty fantastic.

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1176150/fresh-ham

Wow!!! That looks great!

Ladeback69

Last year for Easter I waited to long to get a "Fresh Ham" to cure myself and smoke, so I cured a couple pork butts.  I called them ham butts.  I understand what @Darby_Crenshaw, is saying that in the hog business the rear leg is called the ham, but normal people going to the grocery store think of it as a already cured and all you need to do is cook it or in some cases just heat it up.  I am trying to find a fresh ham where I live so I can cure it myself with the flavors I want for Thanksgiving, like maple, brown sugar, and bourbon.  It is a roast just like what a pork butt would be, but with a pork butt you need to take it to about 180-185 to be sliced.  I am also brining a turkey too.  This thread has been interesting reading.  I haven't been on here much lately because of the World Series.  Nice to have a night off tonight.

NPHuskerFL

@lewisj82 Outstanding!  The amount of time the cut remains in the cure is important in the curing process for certain.  

Here's mine from last year around Christmas time frame. I had never did much in the ways of curing wet or dry at that time. Talked with Carey @nolaegghead several times and after I understood percentages of ingredients I needed to cure it properly. I then had to figure out what flavor profile I wanted and then just for it. The glaze really tied it together for the finish. 
http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1174982/the-cure-thatll-ale-ya/p1

Ladeback69

NPHuskerFL said:

@lewisj82 Outstanding!  The amount of time the cut remains in the cure is important in the curing process for certain.  

Here's mine from last year around Christmas time frame. I had never did much in the ways of curing wet or dry at that time. Talked with Carey @nolaegghead several times and after I understood percentages of ingredients I needed to cure it properly. I then had to figure out what flavor profile I wanted and then just for it. The glaze really tied it together for the finish. 
http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1174982/the-cure-thatll-ale-ya/p1

That's Awesome.  I glad you posted it here.  I hope to get a ham soon so I can get it into the cure before Thanksgiving.