Kramer Knives Question

avibug

Has anyone used one of the Bob Kramer knives that Sur La Table sells, which are made by Zwilling J.A. Henckels?  Is this just branding or is there anything that distinguishes these from other Henckel knives (or other knives at this price point)?  I started looking at the Bob Kramer knives in response to the post by @gdenby yesterday, but it appears you need to wait just for a chance to order one.  

nolaegghead

They are very nice knives.  Unfortunately they describe their metals with proprietary names so it's confusing to what they use, but it's probably AUS-8 core.  Rockwell hardness of 61 is very good.

Lit

I have one of the Shun Kramers. Have had it for years and really like it. They are Nickel plated damascus so they look much better than the newer Zwilling ones. The shun Kramer is the next to th elast with the pointed handle.

Lit

gdenby

There's Zwilling Henckels Cramer damascus line. Those have an SG2 core. A bit harder than the other Zwillings Camer lines. Prettier, too! Only about 1/10th the price of a Cramer original.

I bought a knife w. R2 core (almost identical to SG2). So far, its my fave. Not "damscus," just stainless clad. All of the "damascus" SG2 that I've seen are inut the same price range of the Z. Henckels, so it appears that brand is quite competitive dollar wise.

My understanding is that "pattern welding" is a method used to emulate true damascus by alternating soft and hard steels to achieve the look of true multi-folded single steel damascus. So blades made by Cramer, Devon Thomas, etc are pattern welded.

But, AFAIK, modern "damascus" patern welded blades have a core of very fine hard steel overlain with decorrative softer steels to keep the blade from being brittle. This is the case w. the Z. Henckels Cramer damascus, but Cramer and others appear to just used folding for the damascus look.

P.S. I've read that Cramer knives take an average of 100 hours to make, and cost on average $6000. That less than my dentist charges for an hour filling teeth, much less crowns. Hmm, maybe a line of damascus teeth would be the way to go for a most efficient bite. No more worries about tough meat, ehh?

biggreenrob

I had a couple conversations with Bob Kramer a few years ago about the carbon damascus that Sur La Table was selling years ago.  I ended up picking one up and Bob refinished the handle since it had some been left somewhat unfinished (btw - SLT was more than accommodating and offered exceptional customer service when this was going on).

Bob said it was as close to his production as it gets, but those knives were made carbon damascus.  The stainless damascus will vary in weight but the overall design is spot on...minus the fit and finish.  The Zwilling Kramer carbon series uses 52100 steel and the heat treatment has been very good and consistent.  The new SLT Meiji line is very nice too.  The Shun and Zwilling are very close in my opinion.

When it comes to kitchen knives, I can't recommend Devin Thomas enough.  His knives are great.  Here is a picture of my current collection after selling off a couple.

Lit

The Sur La Table in the North Point mall in Alpharetta had a really nice Zwilling special edition Kramer replica. It was $1800 though. I have been on the lottery list for a real Kramer for I would guess 5 years now. Still not even on the real waiting list which takes several more years. It was around $400 an inch when I got on the list for a real one.

avibug

Thanks all, this is helpful info.