Knife Steel Selection

Begger

I tried this before and have NO idea what happened.   I'll try ONCE more.

Every Egg User has a knife or knives.   These vary in quality from plain carbon steel to the most hi-tech alloys available today.   And believe me, some modern steels are VERY advanced with characteristics not available in a single steel only a decade or less ago.

http://bestpocketknifetoday.com/discovering-the-best-knife-steel/

This guide will give you the general idea.   Keep in mind that GENERALLY hard steels are ALSO harder to sharpen.  Dull knives cut you worse than a sharp knife.   Learn how to keep your knives both clean and sharp.
In addition to the old 'standby' steel hone, you can get a 1200 grit CERAMIC 'steel' and one impregnated with DIAMOND at 600 grit.   Finish with a leather strop for good measure.  With an old-school washita stone / oil and leather, I used to keep my Buck Knife literally sharp enough to shave with.  

Damascus is a 'thing apart' and warrants its OWN discussion.   

gdenby

Let me make a small amendment to the standard statement about dull knives cutting worse than sharp. One is more likely to get cut by a dull knive, because one will have to use too much force, and the blade gets out of control. However, a scary sharp knife, if the edge so much as touches you, will cut.

I recently got a "laser" with an R2/SG2 core. I was cutting up some chicken, and it went thru cartilage easier than most knives will go thru a potato. As I was wiping off the blade, it sliced right thru the dish cloth, and I nicked my thumb ever so slightly. But it was clean, so I just taped the slice back on, and it sealed up quickly.

biggreenrob

Good info.  Here's a good thread from Devin Thomas with additional information.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/4772-what-steels-and-why

Begger

Steel is one of those '3rd rail' issues with a lightning strike possible if you say the wrong thing.

I WILL add this, however.   ALL steels used in knives have a range of final properties which depend in no small part on the final heat-treatment.   

Other properties, like rust-resistance may be more a function of composition of the alloy in question.  

I'm using a knife with inferior metal in the kitchen right now.   It is made with 440a, a not highly regarded stainless.   BUT, kept sharp it is more than capable of doing the job.   Just don't let it get dull or you've got some work to do.

My personal pocket knife is made with S30V and is an amazing steel.  BUT, it is maybe 5x or 10x harder to sharpen than the kitchen knives.  

I think the EGG Community could benefit from a SHARPENING Thread?  

Anyone want to lead it or start if off?

leemschu

If only Benchmade would make kitchen knives because I love all on mine!

gdenby

leemschu said:

If only Benchmade would make kitchen knives because I love all on mine!

They made a brief run of a kitchen set, chef, utility, and pairing. 440C, well tempered, and very very sharp OTB. I bought some of the last ones when my daughter's were married a few years ago. Also very flashy look. Red tint handles, and a presentation case. $300 for the set. Perhaps a little expensive, but they looked tremendous. But I don't think they've seen much use. Perhaps a little too sharp and awfully nice for day to day use.

leemschu

Found some on eBay little pricey for 3 knives.

gdenby

@leemschu said "Found some on eBay little pricey for 3 knives."

Dang! If I tell my kids what they are going for now, I hope they will keep them for a rainy day.

I didn't cut anything except my thumb on one, but that was enough to convince me they were of good quality. Didn't suppose they'd become "collectible."

Begger

That is an outrageous price for knives made from 440c steel.  

That being said, the workmanship and quality are 2nd to NONE.  

If I were wealthy I'd go with Shun knives.   

Begger

Just looked up the Benchmade set again.   I couldn't believe the price, quoted above.
Saw it for well UNDER 500$.   More reasonable, but still too much, IMO, to pay for a knife made of 440c steel.

nolaegghead

I really have been digging the Zhen knives I bought...for the cost very nice.  VG-10 core, like the Shun.  I do notice the core will corrode if you don't dry it off...tells me there's a bit more carbon/different VG-10 alloy there than the shun but very happy. 

blasting

I hope this thread takes off.  I'm interested in learning about the different steels; the problem being that learning of the finer things always ends up costing $.

Begger

nolaegghead said:

I really have been digging the Zhen knives I bought...for the cost very nice.  VG-10 core, like the Shun.  I do notice the core will corrode if you don't dry it off...tells me there's a bit more carbon/different VG-10 alloy there than the shun but very happy. 

Good Job.    Knives of that caliber will be family heirlooms.  

nolaegghead

I just bought a Dyson battery vac for $90 on woot.  Shipping is $5, so I added a Zhen cleaver - VG-10 for $45. 

https://home.woot.com/offers/butcher-chopping-knife-6-5-2-styles?ref=cnt_zl_lc_3

This was 5 minutes ago....thanks for the spark begger.

nolaegghead

Earlier today I picked up a clone of the Edge Pro sharpening system.  Bought some actual Edge Pro stones, tape, glass backing, silicone carbide abrasive, etc.  I have a German wet stone 10" wheel grinder (copy of the Tormek that works great for the rough grind). 

THT

Here is one of the best no-BS descriptions of edge sharpening/theory: http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/Juranitch1977Feb.htm

gdenby

blasting said:

I hope this thread takes off.  I'm interested in learning about the different steels; the problem being that learning of the finer things always ends up costing $.

Once I started spending some $ to upgrade my knives, it made me pay attention to proper maintenance. I'm still too lame to take good care of high carbon steels. So I continue to buy fancier grade stainless, and pay the price upfront, rather than the slow investment of care that the carbon needs.

Also, realize that the better blades are usually finished w. a much better than average handle.

blasting

I use one of those chef's choice electric sharpeners - Just wondering what the benefit of hand sharpening would be.  Thanks

If it matters, I have middle class knives - no dollar store and no Shun.  They range from Wusthof to Dexter to vintage Harrington stuff.  

HeavyG

nolaegghead said:

Earlier today I picked up a clone of the Edge Pro sharpening system.  Bought some actual Edge Pro stones, tape, glass backing, silicone carbide abrasive, etc.  I have a German wet stone 10" wheel grinder (copy of the Tormek that works great for the rough grind). 

If you want to try some other Edge Pro system compatible stones hit Chef Knives to Go: http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edgepro.html

They have Shapton, Chosera, Atoma Diamond, and Nubatama brand stones.

I have many of the Sharpton Glass stones and really like them.

milesvdustin

I dont know anything about sharpening knives. I have plenty of high dollar pocket knives like benchmade and cold steels, and some decent kitchen knives and good ones like henkles. Just got that scslloped dexter roast slicer. 

What type of sharpening kit shouod i look to get? I dont know squat about it. 

gdenby

blasting said:

I use one of those chef's choice electric sharpeners - Just wondering what the benefit of hand sharpening would be.  Thanks

If it matters, I have middle class knives - no dollar store and no Shun.  They range from Wusthof to Dexter to vintage Harrington stuff.  

Newer electric sharpeners can be good. Depends on the brand and model, last time I looked.

Older electric sharpeners only offered 1 angle, and the sharpening wheels often wobbled some. W. time they would ruin the blade more than poor hand sharpening.

As of a few years ago, the newer electric sharpeners might offer 2 bevel angles, and a coarse and fine wheel for each. The grinders wouldn't wobble

Another problem was that people tended to draw the blade thru the sharpener unevenly, making a dip in the blade towards the handle, and then rounding the point off. The same can happen from hand sharpening, but one has to try and do it.

Hand sharpening w. stone (if you can do it, I can't hold the angle well enough) lets one use whateverangle the steel can best hold, both for the main bevel, and the micro-bevel.

gdenby

milesvdustin said:

I dont know anything about sharpening knives. I have plenty of high dollar pocket knives like benchmade and cold steels, and some decent kitchen knives and good ones like henkles. Just got that scslloped dexter roast slicer. 

What type of sharpening kit shouod i look to get? I dont know squat about it. 

The basic decision for me happened when I found I could not reliably keep the same bevel angle along the edge when I worked just by hand. My touch was just not sensitive enough, which was evident when I looked at the edge under a magnifying glass. I figured I might never be sensitive enough to only use stones. I bought an Edge Pro because at the time it was the most affordable for the range of angles and grades of finish one could get. Presently, it appears to me that Wicked Edge also offers similar price and performance.

I spent weekend time over 6 - 8 weeks practicing on knives from 2nd hand stores.

Knives that can be taken up to mirror bevels need very fine grits. I have  a strop and some diamond solutions for those. For the somewhat less fine edges, I have a ceramic hones, about 1800 grit on hand.

You may not need as much hardware. My pocket knives are OK, but I don't need them to be razor sharp. Arkansas stones and stropping work well enough for them. My everyday knives, the ones in the tableware drawer are fine after a few draws thru a really inexpensive sharpener I got at Harbor Freight for maybe $2. They can be stropped just by dragging them over brown paper bags.

There are a number of simple ceramic rod sharpeners that provide rods w. a couple of different grits, and a couple of set angles for the bevel. All one needs to do is hold the knife reasonable well straight down.

Begger

I'm asking for one of THESE for Christmas.

A very good compromise between trying to manually hold a specific angle (and it varies, by knife) on a stone and one of those, awful, to me, 'machines'.

http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker/dp/B004HIZKHE

And while this is from the Amazon site, I'll continue to shop price / delivery and shipping.