I made bacon. It was good.

Darby_Crenshaw

Difference is texture. Hot smoked is cooked, cold smoked is not

nolaegghead

Wolfpack said:

@nolaegghead have you ever tried cold smoked bacon? Besides the obvious what are the main differences- flavor? 

After the bacon is cooked (pan fried or whatever), there's not any discernable difference.  Otherwise the hot smoked is cooked and I suppose you could eat it without any further cooking and has less water content.  Although the cold smoked is cured, there's still some risk from the usual bacteria and virus, it's not something I'd eat without further cooking.  What @Darby_Crenshaw said.

Focker

In short, hot smoked is cooked twice, creating a firmer texture.  
Cold smoked allows more smoke flavor over longer periods of time.  
Chewy, yet crispy texture, only cooking once.  

For my tastes and preferences personally, I like pickling(wet curing/brining), and cold smoking over a couple of days.  Also much easier to toss the belly in The Briner, and forget about it for two weeks.

No overhauling.  No overcuring.  No undercuring.  No worries.
Equilibrium brining meat, injecting if necessary for the larger cuts(no risk of overcuring using an equilibrium injection/pump), is a much more consistent environment.

Dry curing is great for jerky.  
They both have their place.  

   




 
Fully cured,smoked meat is fully cured,smoked meat.  Not sure what extra risks there are from bacteria and viruses from one vs another?  Not that anyone would eat uncooked bacon.  Maybe nola can expound. 

Darby_Crenshaw

Nola. Much respect as always. But. 

Salt is enough to cure meat safely without nitrates. Nitrates are what many people are used to, and i prefer bacon with nitrates, but it's a style thing, not really a safety thing. 

Lardo and pancetta are salt cured, and safe. I use them as examples because they are belly, but we're all familiar with prosciutto, which is also only cured with salt

if you cure belly with salt, there's no issue cold smoking or eating it. 

pork doesn't ever need to be refrigerated if you cure it right. And that only requires salt. Nitrates are required if you are looking for that familiar crystalline hardness and color and some amount of piquancy. But it is only absolutely necessary in sausages which may be at room temp for any extended period (cold smoking or air drying).  

Focker

Darby_Crenshaw said:

Nola. Much respect as always. But. 

Salt is enough to cure meat safely without nitrates. Nitrates are what many people are used to, and i prefer bacon with nitrates, but it's a style thing, not really a safety thing. 

Lardo and pancetta are salt cured, and safe. I use them as examples because they are belly, but we're all familiar with prosciutto, which is also only cured with salt

if you cure belly with salt, there's no issue cold smoking or eating it. 

pork doesn't ever need to be refrigerated if you cure it right. And that only requires salt. Nitrates are required if you are looking for that familiar crystalline hardness and color and some amount of piquancy. But it is only absolutely necessary in sausages which may be at room temp for any extended period (cold smoking or air drying).  

You mean, Native Americans didn't have Prague Powder? 

blind99

I thought nitrates were added safety to prevent botulism?  Maybe if you're curing in a refrigerator and hot smoking it doesn't matter but I'm a belt and suspenders and extra suspenders type of person!  (Disclaimer: I've cured exactly one piece of meat in my life.)

Here's something I read while researching this curing stuff.  

http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_cure.html

nolaegghead

Darby_Crenshaw said:

Nola. Much respect as always. But. 

Salt is enough to cure meat safely without nitrates. Nitrates are what many people are used to, and i prefer bacon with nitrates, but it's a style thing, not really a safety thing. 

Lardo and pancetta are salt cured, and safe. I use them as examples because they are belly, but we're all familiar with prosciutto, which is also only cured with salt

if you cure belly with salt, there's no issue cold smoking or eating it. 

pork doesn't ever need to be refrigerated if you cure it right. And that only requires salt. Nitrates are required if you are looking for that familiar crystalline hardness and color and some amount of piquancy. But it is only absolutely necessary in sausages which may be at room temp for any extended period (cold smoking or air drying).  

I concur with everything you say and I didn't think I  contradicted any of it in spirit.  But curing isn't sterilizing (like cooking is).  I'm not a hypochondriac and have no problem eating raw cured or even raw meats that are not high risk.  Cure something well and long enough, and handle it correctly -- it's perfectly safe for even most young/old/immune compromised people.  But if you start off with contaminated meat, your routine belly cure isn't going to sterilize it. 

If you have a bubble boy in your basement, I'd recommend cooking everything he eats and handling it properly, and avoid fresh vegetables. 

Darby_Crenshaw

blind99, botulism is correct, hence sausages, where botulism can be entrained into the interior, in an oxygen free environment with a source for food. ('botulism' comes from the latin for 'sausage').

but botulism doesn't occur in whole muscle meat in the open air ('botulism' comes from the latin for 'sausage').

re: nola's follow-up.  i get all that.  but if you are talking bacteria and viruses on contaminated meat, it isn't the nitrates that are the issue (or lack of them) it's the food handling. just as you say the proper curing with salt only won't make the meat sterile, neither will adding in nitrates.  so why make a point about the meat being unsafe because there are no nitrates used? nitrates don't enter into it with whole muscle meat. re botulism. 

what i mean is, if your point were gospel (cold smoking bacon is dangerous without nitrates), then we have to pitch cold smoked salmon (and lots of other things we don't worry about, like veggies) which we eat raw, and you aren't saying that. so why is it safe to cold smoke salmon without nitrates, but not pork belly?

handle and prepare your food properly, and there is no need for nitrates in curing, unless drying sausages, et.

it's more dangerous to eat raw spinach than it is to eat raw (but cured) pork 

this stuff is incredibly simple when you just sit down and focus on the methods.  it's also time tested. 

again, i prefer bacon with nitrates, because it fundamentally makes a different type of bacon than only salt cured (texture, flavor, color-wise), but it isn't needed.  you can salt cure belly and hang it in your basement for a few weeks.  that would be more 'dangerous' (if you asked people at a dinner party, who don't understand this stuff) than cold smoking it.  and yet, it actually isn't. both are fine.

listeria? sure.  a concern.  same concern as in  other foods we eat raw though.

all foods carry risk, and proper cleaning and handling is required.

nolaegghead

If I came across as saying making bacon without nitrites is dangerous, I didn't mean that.  It just doesn't taste as good.