OT/OT:::: Sig P238 (.380)question (((VERY OT)))

Mickey

went to the range in Austin yesterday with VI to check out the Glock 42 and Gary's Sig P238. After running about 6 mags each I found I was a much better shot with the Sig than the Glock. The Sig also shot slightly softer in the hand (recoil) than the Glock (IMO). But after firing his Judge anything felt soft in your hand. 
The question is: have any of you owned or fired the Sig P238 HD ( real metal guts, not alloys). I am guessing it will be an even softer recoil than the regular Sig P238. Just asking. 

lousubcap

@Mickey- Retired and now thinking of becoming a hired gun?... Just kidding.  No help here but the forum is unusually quiet for a Friday PM.  I could be Devastated but I'm not.  

Fred19Flintstone

I carry a .380, but not a Sig.  I'm looking forward to reading the responses.

nolaegghead

I hate that recoil "sting" when I shoot people.  That's why I only have heavy guns.  Remember kids, Newton's third law of motion will only help you:

When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

Also Force = Mass x Acceleration

Kyle919

The Sig 238 is the most accurate.380 I've shot.  I would stick with the sig.  Do yourself a favor and shoot a sig p938

bgebrent

Sig p238 is my carry gun, about 15 years old.  Shoots great with soft recoil. Always has been reliable and fun to shoot.

Eggcelsior

My wife misses her Sig every time she goes to the range to shoot her plastic pea-shooting glock. It was much more accurate for her and she never had "glock kisses"(obviously) with the sig.

Jeepster47

@nolaegghead ... duration of the force?  

StillSmoken

@Kyle919 I've had my eye on the Sig P938!  I really want that gun. 

stlcharcoal

Regardless of how it shoots, look at the operation.  The 238 is a single action, so you're going to have to carry it cocked with a manual thumb safety engaged.  That is an automatic loser for me.

How many people do you hear about that have negligent discharges and say, "oh I thought the safety was on"?  How many cops have been shot while trying to disengage the thumb safety?  For both reasons, that's why most departments have banned the use of thumb safeties on their service weapons.  Sig already recalled the P238 for faulty thumb safeties. 

Glock is a striker fired with three integral safeties.  One safety on the trigger, then pulling the trigger cocks the gun and disengages the other two safeties.  No thumb safety, and it's physically impossible to fire gun without pulling the trigger (so just keep it holstered.)

Go with the Glock or something with internal safeties.  The G42 (or the Sig 238) are both way too big for a .380 Auto.  For that size gun, get a 9x19 mm.  Kahr P380 is a great little pocket pistol in 380.  It's big brother is the PM9 (or CM9)--and it's still smaller than the Glock 43 (same frame as the G42, but in 9mm.)

henapple

If it's for protection or carry...get a 9mm. If nothing else you get more rounds. My HK is 15+1. I carry it comfortably. It has no safety but the first pull is 11 lbs which for me acts as a safety but I don't have to fumble around to get a shot off. I like the higher mag ....I figure if the poop hits the fan somewhere between chitting my pants and fainting I may need a few extra rounds. 
Whatever you decide ...practice.

bgebrent

One in the chamber, hammer released, it's super safe and effective. Most safety rests with the user. It's a sweet gun!

stlcharcoal

bgebrent said:

One in the chamber, hammer released, it's super safe and effective. Most safety rests with the user. It's a sweet gun!

Safe and effective until you have to draw, ****, release the safety, then fire.  Do some drills with an instructor......no time for those two middle steps.   

Ozzie_Isaac

I prefered my SIG P226 in 40 S&W to my Glock 22 40S&W.  The Glock was simplier and more rugged but the angle of the grip to barrel felt odd.

I recently sold all my guns though and purchased a bunch of Hillary for President signs.  If you want a sign PM me.

bgebrent

The hammer is the safety ,my p238 has no safety beyond the hammer . Once on target it's **** and shoot!  @stlcharcoal, where do yo live?  You need my bump ar15

stlcharcoal

bgebrent said:

The hammer is the safety ,my p238 has no safety beyond the hammer . Once on target it's **** and shoot!  @stlcharcoal, where do yo live?  You need my bump ar15

On SA guns, that's not a very good safety, as the hammer could contact the firing pin if dropped on the muzzle or on the hammer.  Some employ a safety notch, transfer bar, half-****, etc, all of which could fail under impact.  On a Kimber, I know the firing pin was shorter than the tube, so there had to be enough inertia; plus there was a drop safety similar to a Glock (blocks the firing pin until the trigger is half pulled.)  Hopefully they engineered one or more of these into the P238.

You're also creating an elevated risk by lowering the hammer on a live round.  If you thumb slips, BOOM.  If I buy a DA with a hammer, it has a decocker.  I don't like it, but I'll do the three step method on a SA/DA revolver--thumb blocking hammer, other thumb pulling the hammer back, pull and release trigger before releasing thumb to disengage transfer bar (all in a safe direction). 

Ultimately you're really limiting you options by carrying condition 2.  First off, you're giving up time you might not have.  Secondly, you giving up retention since your thumb or other hand will need to **** the hammer.  Also, you're limiting you options if you have a hand injury.  Are you competent to draw and **** with you non-dominant in a timely manner?  Practice with a blue gun and see how easy it is for someone to take it away from you without a good grip.

Like I said, go do some drills with an instructor and it may change your mind on carrying in condition 2.  Many would argue that's it's more dangerous for you to be carrying in condition 2 than 1, myself included (NRA instructor & RSO, MO & IL CCW instructor).

Thanks for the offer on the bump firing.......prefer the real ones. 

bgebrent

@stlcharcoal, thank you for your expert advice. I have identified a local nra instructor and scheduled a session. Always willing to learn. My colt AR is pretty fun, just not what you have access to. Also been very comfortable carrying my sig .380, uncocked.  Appreciate the good advice. 
Will follow up on the turkey cook.  12G single shot at 40 yds going away. 18.8 lbs and 11.5 " beard. 

4Runner

@bgebrent - nice turkey.  My twin 15 year olds and I had one similar in our sights but just out of range twice this season.  No such luck.  Great bird for you.  Also, I love my Colt AR as well. 

OP - you can't go wrong with either gun.  Go with the one you feel most comfortable. 

bgebrent

@4Runner, glad you're hunting with your boys/twins!!  Nothing like teaching when nature does most of the teaching. Appreciate the kudos and someone who enjoys a Colt!look forward to seeing the Toms your boys bag next year!  It sure is an art!

stlcharcoal

 

bgebrent said:

@stlcharcoal, thank you for your expert advice. I have identified a local nra instructor and scheduled a session. Always willing to learn. My colt AR is pretty fun, just not what you have access to. Also been very comfortable carrying my sig .380, uncocked.  Appreciate the good advice. 
Will follow up on the turkey cook.  12G single shot at 40 yds going away. 18.8 lbs and 11.5 " beard. 

Cool!  I know nothing about hunting--need to learn one day.  I have turkeys and deer all over my property, wouldn't be too hard to snipe one from the kids' playset tower.

I got a deer tag last year or the year before for free since I have enough land (no hunter's ed course required.)  All the butcher shops I sell to here in town said they would process it for me for next to nothing.  What's to lose right??  Then I watched a YouTube video on how to field dress......NO THANKS!!  Got a couple guys that said they would do it for me, a which point I told them to just come over blast the thing because I don't really care about that either. All I want is the sausage and the ground meat for chili, meatloaf, etc since bison is getting expensive. 

Good job on the training.  The more the better.  Also, if you can find a CERT instructor, that's even better.  NRA instructor training is pretty broad and doesn't focus in on self defense and tactical.  Take a trip out to Front Sight (I'm a life member there), Thunder Ranch, Asymmetric Solutions, or one of the other big tactical schools if you ever get a chance.

Fred19Flintstone

 

TnJed

Ditto Henapple. I daily carry a G19, w/ a Fulcrum trigger.