question about freezing - any chemists here?

RRP

I just finished making another batch of my au jus recipe in anticipation of a nice prime rib dinner this Saturday night. It's a recipe that I started years ago and keep tweaking and tweaking! We also love it to make Bloody Bulls due to the rich beefiness. For that reason I freeze the au jus in a couple ice cube trays. After the cubes* are frozen* (CATCH the * ?) then I dump them out into a freezer bag which goes right back into the freezer. NOW - my problem and questions about the * while the cubes get hard enough to retain their general shape and stay sort of frozen they really never get hard frozen and are always shiney and more sloppy in the freezer bag than I would like. By the end of the bag it is full of slush even though the freezer reading is zero! I assume the salt content in my recipe plus the salt imbedded in the other ingredients are the cause. HOWEVER is there any way a typical home freezer can ever hard freeze these? Or is there some healthy chemical I could add to offset the salt? BTW eliminating the salt is not a solution in my mind since as I said there other ingredients besides the small amount of actual salt in my recipe. Thanks in advance!

Ozzie_Isaac

Depends on how much salt you have.

Every 60gm salt per liter of water reduces freezing temp by ~2 deg C

Ozzie_Isaac

Also at about -6 deg F the salt in water begins to crystallize out of the solution and the water freezes. Probably not what you want.

Ozzie_Isaac

Maybe reduce the salt in the cubes and add direct to the drink?

UrbanForestTurnings

Freezing ? I just sat my butt in a truck fo 12.5 hrs plowing. go back in at 0400. But my egg is clean. Don't ask about my wife's car it covered.

Zmokin

Have you ever considered home canning with a pressure cooker?  It's a little more work, but it will resolve your freezing issue and it won't take up freezer space.  You can get pretty small canning jars if you want to use a little each time and don't want it in pint jars?

Chowman

Most home freezer/refrigerators have an auto defrost feature which uses a timer to run a heater to melt the frost on a regular basis. This puts your freezer into a constant freeze/thaw cycle. Maybe try some dry ice tight against your cubes, then insulated in a small foam cooler, which is then kept in your freezer. Should probably do the math and check the target freeze point of your au jous with a hygrometer and compare with the temp of the dry ice. Plus this is a short term solution since you might get freezer burn due to crystallization as Ozzie Isaac noted that the salt may come out of solution. I am wanting to think of a way you could apply a thin ice coating to the cubes surface. Sorry not much help...

DMW

@Zmokin - Thanks for posting that. It got me to thinking, "I wonder if it is OK to can stock?" Sure enough, a quick google search reveals it is easy to do. I'm a big fan of having my own stock on hand, canning will free up freezer space.

Zmokin

DMW said:

@Zmokin - Thanks for posting that. It got me to thinking, "I wonder if it is OK to can stock?" Sure enough, a quick google search reveals it is easy to do. I'm a big fan of having my own stock on hand, canning will free up freezer space.

Been canning my own stock for years.

i make poultry stock (might be a mixture of turkey & chicken and sometimes duck or cornish game hens), beef stock, & ham stock.  Beef stock is the only one I buy bones for.  I usually get some neck bones from the grocery store to add to the rib bones I save for beef stock.  sometimes my chicken stock is very heavy on wing bones.  I tried using chicken feet once (my local Walmart carries them), but i didn't notice it to be any better than my normal chicken stock despite the claims I read on the web.  Just last weekend I canned up 7 pints of chicken stock.

RRP

Thanks ALL of you! I'd invite you guys over to sample my au jus but between the cost of the prime rib on Sat night and then the BB I just might have to sell the homestead and move into the whore house - I MEANT the POOR HOUSE!

Zmokin

RRP said:

Thanks ALL of you! I'd invite you guys over to sample my au jus but between the cost of the prime rib on Sat night and then the BB I just might have to sell the homestead and move into the whore house - I MEANT the POOR HOUSE!

So Ron, is your Au Jus a secret recipe, or are you willing to share?

I really love a good Au Jus for my homemade French Dip sandwiches.  I've made some good au Jus with drippings, but it is never enough for the sandwiches later on.  I've also made some bland Au Jus from scratch.  Lately, I've been using store bought, just add water Au Jus mix.  It's OK, but it's loaded with MSG so my wife won't touch it with a 10 foot spoon.

RRP

Zmokin said:

RRP said:

Thanks ALL of you! I'd invite you guys over to sample my au jus but between the cost of the prime rib on Sat night and then the BB I just might have to sell the homestead and move into the whore house - I MEANT the POOR HOUSE!

So Ron, is your Au Jus a secret recipe, or are you willing to share?

I really love a good Au Jus for my homemade French Dip sandwiches.  I've made some good au Jus with drippings, but it is never enough for the sandwiches later on.  I've also made some bland Au Jus from scratch.  Lately, I've been using store bought, just add water Au Jus mix.  It's OK, but it's loaded with MSG so my wife won't touch it with a 10 foot spoon.

I will GLADLY share it - I just altered the recipe for some of the changes I made tonight and for some reason instead of them being saved I LOST THE WHOLE DAMNED FILE!!!! Trust me - I will post it tomorrow, but I have to have my second spinal injection of steroids at 9:55 in the morning and by past experience that means I will be a space cadet for several hours until late afternoon. PLEASE bear with me.

TheShaytoon

^LIKE!

UrbanForestTurnings

Yes you can can stock. Pick up a ball cook book.

DaveRichardson

Can you omit the salt until final prep time?

RRP

RRP said:

Zmokin said:

RRP said:

Thanks ALL of you! I'd invite you guys over to sample my au jus but between the cost of the prime rib on Sat night and then the BB I just might have to sell the homestead and move into the whore house - I MEANT the POOR HOUSE!

So Ron, is your Au Jus a secret recipe, or are you willing to share?

I really love a good Au Jus for my homemade French Dip sandwiches.  I've made some good au Jus with drippings, but it is never enough for the sandwiches later on.  I've also made some bland Au Jus from scratch.  Lately, I've been using store bought, just add water Au Jus mix.  It's OK, but it's loaded with MSG so my wife won't touch it with a 10 foot spoon.

@Zmokin - Here you go!

RRP's Au Jus Recipe 

This began as a basic recipe off internet which I tweaked 18 times so it's mine!

1  14 oz Swanson Beef Broth (box – not the can)

1  10-1/2 ounce can of Campbell's French Onion soup

½  of the soup can cold water

1 T Worcestershire sauce

1   teaspoon of garlic salt

2   Wyler’s brand beef bouillon cubes

½  teaspoon ground garlic powder

1 T Pensey’s English prime rib rub

1 T Better Than Bouillon

Bring ingredients to a boil in saucepan, letting it boil for 1 minute then

strain and discard onions.  Serve au jus dipping sauce hot. Can be made 2

days ahead.  Makes 3 cups.  BTW I also make a batch of this and then pour

 it in large ice cube trays. Two melted cubes make a wonderful Bloody Bull!

Zmokin

Thanks Ron. 

fishlessman

just another option, but you can buy inexpensive small ziplocks, 2x2, 3x4, etc. ive seen your fridge pic and know how you like to organize, 2 cube bags, 4 cubes etc all stored in a big bag

RRP

Zmokin said:

Thanks Ron. 

You're welcome! BTW if you don't have the final two ingredients then use 1 or 2 more bullion cubes - since getting yet more "beefiness" is all they are doing.

RRP

Thanks for all the ideas! What really hit home was the comment posted by @Chowman about the frost free heating cycles. Heretofore I have been storing the cubes in a bag in my freezer side in the kitchen which is frost free. What I decided to do with these new cubes is to double bag them and store them in our garage freezer that is not frost free. I have to think that will keep these more  intact and the bag won't become all slushy! BTW note the sheen on some of these cubes.

Little Steven

RRP said:

RRP said:

Zmokin said:

RRP said:

Thanks ALL of you! I'd invite you guys over to sample my au jus but between the cost of the prime rib on Sat night and then the BB I just might have to sell the homestead and move into the whore house - I MEANT the POOR HOUSE!

So Ron, is your Au Jus a secret recipe, or are you willing to share?

I really love a good Au Jus for my homemade French Dip sandwiches.  I've made some good au Jus with drippings, but it is never enough for the sandwiches later on.  I've also made some bland Au Jus from scratch.  Lately, I've been using store bought, just add water Au Jus mix.  It's OK, but it's loaded with MSG so my wife won't touch it with a 10 foot spoon.

@Zmokin - Here you go!

RRP's Au Jus Recipe 

This began as a basic recipe off internet which I tweaked 18 times so it's mine!

1  14 oz Swanson Beef Broth (box – not the can)

1  10-1/2 ounce can of Campbell's French Onion soup

½  of the soup can cold water

1 T Worcestershire sauce

1   teaspoon of garlic salt

2   Wyler’s brand beef bouillon cubes

½  teaspoon ground garlic powder

1 T Pensey’s English prime rib rub

1 T Better Than Bouillon

Bring ingredients to a boil in saucepan, letting it boil for 1 minute then

strain and discard onions.  Serve au jus dipping sauce hot. Can be made 2

days ahead.  Makes 3 cups.  BTW I also make a batch of this and then pour

 it in large ice cube trays. Two melted cubes make a wonderful Bloody Bull!

Damn Ron, everything in there is loaded with salt (excepting the garlic and water). You could either use no salt added stock or make your own and reduce the bejeezus out of it and add dehydrated onions rather than the onion soup mix. The Worcestershire is high in sodium but that amount wont hurt.

RRP

Thanks for the advice, Stephen -  but if you re-read it I use canned soup, not a soup mix and then strain the onions out at the end so no need to add dehydrated onions. As I reported above I think the new storage idea will solve my storage issue.

bcsnave

Ron..looks good

I am not a chemist...but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night

Little Steven

RRP said:

Thanks for the advice, Stephen -  but if you re-read it I use canned soup, not a soup mix and then strain the onions out at the end so no need to add dehydrated onions. As I reported above I think the new storage idea will solve my storage issue.

As I remember from my days in the soup business that French onion was just consommé with dehydrated onions added.