Another Pizza Thread! (first time results on the BGE)

KiterTodd

I made my first pizza on the BGE yesterday.  While it wasn't perfect, it was very good.   I like a thin crust pizza with a crisp bottom and I have struggled getting a crisp bottom in a traditional oven.  So, I was stoked to have the bottom of my first BGE pizza to come out crispy and delicious!

I don't currently have a stone, though.  After years of use it finally cracked and broke and I'm shopping for another.  Most stones I find are kind of on the medium to small side and I like to get as close to a full size pizza parlor pie as I can.  The larger stones are tougher to find.  I'll have to measure my large BGE and figure out what will work best.   Yesterday I used a combination of the plate setter and a pizza pan.  I used the plate setter feet down, figuring that the heat of the plate setter flat would provide a consistent heat to the pan.

I only really had two problems...slightly uneven cook and an odor from (I think) leftover fat drippings on my plate setter.  That didn't get into the taste of the pizza but it stunk outside and when I brought the pan in the house the stink was on the bottom of the pan.  (I thought I just had black char on the plate setter, but there must have been some actual fat under the crust that was not cooked off.)

Three questions though;

1. What is the minimum time to preheat the egg once the dome is at the temperature you want?  (I'm not looking for perfection...I have two screaming toddlers so when dinner is on I'm going for efficiency balanced against quality)
2. What temperature do you cook at?
3. Does anyone have tips for using a metal pizza pan instead of a stone?

I have read several posts randomly on BGE pizzas and some of you use a very high temp, which I was going to try.  I could only get the dome temp to about 650.  I used BGE charcoal but did not fill the fire ring.  I had one layer of charchoal left over and put a full fire starter chimney on top of it.  I was only making one pizza so honestly wanted to minimize the amount I used for a quick meal. Anyway, the temp got up pretty quickly, hit 600ish, and didn't go any further. After going through a cook I decided I don't need to go higher, but I've read posts with folks taking it to 850-900 for a Neopolitan style pie (whatever that is).

I had a perfectly cooked crust and I'd say half of the top could have cooked a minute longer, but I wanted to get the pie out before it burned.

In the end, though, the results were very good, the kids liked it (of course) and I don't think I'll ever make a pizza in the oven again!

There are some pics below.  You can see the pizza going in (temp is not accurate, I had just opened the top), a peek in the dome during cooking, and the 'za just before I took it off.  You'll note that my large pizza pan sits in the center of the egg with an inch of clear space all around.  Seemed to be plenty of airflow and the egg held temperature with the pan in there. 

Maybe I'll try again tonight.  I do have some leftover sauce....  


Plain side for the kids.  My side has Easter ham, Jalapenos, red onion and a bit of asparagus.



Without the flashlight, there is a clear red glow around the edge of the pizza pan from down below.



This is taken from the left side of the grill.  (back is on the left side of the picture)

Man this grill is a lot of fun.  I haven't lit my gas grill since I got it...

Carolina Q

Looks much better than my first egged pie, that’s for sure! A few random thoughts…

To get the top cooked before the bottom burns, you need to raise the pizza stone higher in the dome. There are any number of things you can use to do this. A couple of bricks turned on edge are probably the easiest. I use three terracotta planter feet from a garden shop plus an old style mini woo. Whether you raise the stone or not, you at least need spacers between the platesetter and your stone. Helps keep the bottom of the pie from burning. Terracotta planter feet work, or balls of aluminum foil, copper plumbing Ts.

For the large, BGE sells a 14” stone. IMO, that’s about as large a stone as you should use in a large egg, especially if you are raising it up into the dome. Thickness should be 5/8” or more.

And yes, you should get a stone. I’ve never been a fan of those serving trays for baking pizza. Tips for using one? Yeah… DON’T!

I always fill my firebox to the top for all cooks. Except… for all night lo n slo cooks, I fill about halfway up the fire ring. Same for high temp pizzas, but for a different reason. It takes a while to get that hot and it burns it up really fast. I gave up 900s awhile ago, but have done 750 on the egg. Whatever lump you don’t burn will still be there tomorrow after you shut it down so loading it up doesn’t waste lump. Doesn’t take longer to heat up either.

I used a chimney starter for my very first cook. Never tried it again. Some people do, I guess, but it got way too hot way too fast when I did it. Now I use a mapp torch.

You didn’t say anything about the dough you used. Lots of different recipes, lots of different grocery store or pizza shop doughs too. Baking temp varies from one to the next. Most eggers seem to do well with generic dough at about 500° dome. If you decide to play around making your own dough, you can get into the higher hydration dough’s that can take the higher temps.

The odor you mentioned could mean that you didn’t let the VOCs burn off. Or, as you said, maybe grease. Though I never noticed any grease issues with my egged pies.

Minimum time to preheat? I really never pay any attention. I have an infrared thermometer and I put the pie on when the temp of the stone gets where I want it, usually 450°, 500° or 725°, depending on the dough.

As for never making pizza in the oven again, that’s what I thought. Now I make ALL of them there. So much easier and just as good.

Here are the spacers I use to raise the stone (large egg). This is a 500° NY style pie. 14" stone. Dough is made with bread flour.

Better pic of the spacers...

This one was done in my kitchen oven at 725°. Caputo 00 flour, completely different dough and result. More napoletana. 

Hope this helps some. Good luck!

KiterTodd

Michael, great tips.   Thanks!!!

I used store bought dough.  I either see what Harris Teeter or Trader Joe's has, or I stop at a local pizza shop and buy theirs.   As easy as I'm told it is to make dough, pizza is rarely planned ahead for us.  So even when I've frozen dough it doesn't work out.   We decide to make pizza and I pick up some dough on the way home. 

This particular dough is from Harris Teeter.  They had two kinds this time...one was the generic store packaged one I usually buy ($2.50) and then they had this premium one that was private label for $2.99.   I decided to try it and didn't expect to see any difference, but it was much more elastic and easier to work with than other doughs I've used.  I'll look for it again for sure.

Carolina Q

If I ever buy store bought dough again, I want to try leaving it in the fridge for 2-3 days rather than using it that day. The label always says made today or yesterday at best. I refrigerate homemade dough at least 2, preferably 3 days before I use it. Should help store dough too, though I haven't tried it.

Keep in mind that you need to leave the dough ball at room temp for at least two hours before you try to shape it into a pie. Doing this will prevent the dough from snapping back like a rubber band as you are trying to stretch it out. I use fairly large (6 cup) round Glad clear plastic containers with the blue lids as proofing trays (one per pizza). Keeps the dough balls from developing a skin. 

onedbguru

as far as the pizza stone is concerned - get a BGE stone.  The pampered chef/cheapo from BBB will crack above 450.  I use plate setter - legs up original grate, fire bricks then the pizza stone.   Fill the FB and crank it between 650 and 700.   If you have trouble getting it that hot, a hair dryer or leaf blower in the bottom vent can help in getting things hot really fast. 

Durangler

For a good pizza stone, I have one of these:
https://www.axner.com/cordierite-kiln-shelves.aspx
I purchased the 16" kiln shelve & am very pleased. The price was right but they hit you with shipping, but was packaged in an indestructible carton.
Kiln shelves are another option..

Here is my set-up in a XL Egg...


That's a Weber grid for a 22.5 kettle. Puts the stone about 5.5" above the felt gasket.
Those are planter feet, as mentioned by CarolinaQ, I picked up at Lowe's.
I guess the Weber grid is not necessary, but  it gets me to where I want to be. )

KiterTodd

Durangler said:

For a good pizza stone, I have one of these:
https://www.axner.com/cordierite-kiln-shelves.aspx
I purchased the 16" kiln shelve & am very pleased. The price was right but they hit you with shipping, but was packaged in an indestructible carton.

That's great to know, thanks!  So, there are no hazardous chemicals/gasses I have to worry about if I buy a kiln shelf?  I agree, though, they look nice and thick and (shipping excluded) are a great price.

Based on my desire to have a large pizza I may try the 16" stone and use it un-raised.  According to the BGE website the grill diameter of a large is 18.25".  So, with a 16" stone I'd have just over an inch around each side...which is what I had with my pizza pan and it worked well.  Will just have to give everything time to warm up.

Anyone think this will NOT work?  I understand the reason to raise the stone higher, but my desire to have a full size pizza is strong. 

jerryb78

I haven't attempted pizza on the egg yet, but I've gotten pretty competent at doing it in the oven.  The keys are: 1.  Get a *big* stone.  The heavier it is, the greater the thermal mass and the better browning you'll get on your crust.  2. Put the stone on the top rack, as close to the top as you can get.  (same effect as getting it closer to the dome of the BGE) 3. Preheat for a long time, at least an hour.

I got my stone here and it's a beast.  http://bakingstone.com/ .  They seem to make round stones that would work in the egg as well.  I can already see one coming in my immediate future.

jerryb78

Also, I can't recommend enough that you try making your own dough.  It's really easy if you have a food processor.  America's Test Kitchen has a great and very forgiving recipe for thin crust pizza dough (what I would consider New York style) where you buzz it in the food processor then let it slow rise in the fridge for 1-3 days.  It's ready to go when you're ready to cook and is usually pretty easy to work with.

Durangler

KiterTodd said:

That's great to know, thanks!  So, there are no hazardous chemicals/gasses I have to worry about if I buy a kiln shelf?  I agree, though, they look nice and thick and (shipping excluded) are a great price.

Based on my desire to have a large pizza I may try the 16" stone and use it un-raised.  According to the BGE website the grill diameter of a large is 18.25".  So, with a 16" stone I'd have just over an inch around each side...which is what I had with my pizza pan and it worked well.  Will just have to give everything time to warm up.

Anyone think this will NOT work?  I understand the reason to raise the stone higher, but my desire to have a full size pizza is strong. 

Get a Corierite stone. The material is widely used in pizza stones.
They have a 15" stone that will allow you to raise it higher in dome.

KiterTodd

Interesting, that bakingstone.com site (really nice looking product...with a lot of size options!) says that no stones can be exposed directly to fire.  I guess our placesetter is a different kind of product as it gets plenty of direct exposure and looks like it is made of the same stuff as the BGE pizza stones.   But those bakingstones are 3/4" thick.  Nice!

The Cordierite ones, also look good and are 5/8" thick.

Well...for what it's worth I got ants in the pants before reading these replies and stopped in a cooking store over lunch.  Bought the following 16" stone.  Looks pretty solid.  I measured it in the store at somewhere between 9/16" and 5/8" thick, with an additional 1/2" of feet.  (comments on the listing say it is 1/2" thick).
http://www.amazon.com/Old-Stone-4461-16-Inch-Oven/dp/B0000E19MW

Bird in hand...seems very solid...should I keep it?  Or go for one of the others mentioned above?

If I got one from the bakingstone site, I think I'd get an oven one instead of a grill one that has the pan attached to the bottom.  It seems that with the placesetter in play, the stone would never have direct contact to the flame anyway.  Or...I get the Cordierite which seems to be made for kiln temps as long as it is safe for food (Durangler says "yes")

Good thread.  Great info. 

KiterTodd

Well....hold your comments.     I had ants-in-the-pants (again) and decided I wanted to cook pizza on a stone tonight  more than I wanted to wait for a different stone to arrive.  If for some reason this stone doesn't work out, I can always use it somewhere else.

So, I did to a test fit with a 16" stone on the L BGE and found that the L egg actually has a 19.25" interior diameter which gives plenty of extra space around the stone at grate level.   With over 1.5" on each side, I will even try raising it up a bit next time, but not tonight.  Tonight the kids are hungry and I'm cooking...

Picture below.  The newspaper is so I didn't get the stone dirty from the grates if I decided to return it;


Heck...if it were up to me I'd get a 17" round stone.  But I don't think anybody makes one.

Focker

17 would be too much.  16 is the largest I'd go in a large egg.  15 is perfect for reasons Durangler stated.  

Carolina Q

Todd, you're overthinking this. I didn't think about it at all - just bought my BGE stone when I bought my egg almost five years aro. No cracks, no worries. Been to 900° a few times too. It is 14"D x 5/8". Heard lots of stories of broken non-egg brands, especially Pampered Chef and Bed, Bath, Beyond.

Personally, I wouldn't want the feet. And 1/2" is too thin (if that's what it is). 16" is larger than I would buy. You WILL want to raise the stone up into the dome. The larger the stone, the less you can raise.

Durangler

The bigger the stone you try to jam in that egg, the less air flow you'll have.
Don't choke your egg.

Durangler

On second thought, you'd probably never choke the fire out.
My bad...

KiterTodd

Carolina Q said:

Todd, you're overthinking this. ...

LOL, you're right.  Anyway, I tried the pizza again and...

IT WAS AWESOME!!!   Only fault here is I ran out of lump!   I only had enough for one full chimney and the coal that was left in the bottom.   The temp walked up to 550, I started to let it heat, and then it backed down below 500.  Sh&t!   I quickly added the rest of the small chunks from my bag (about 1/4 a chimney), closed up the egg, and it walked back up to 550.  I let it sit for a bit and put the pizza on the stone.

Great results.  It cooked in less than 5 minutes.  I wanted to get up closer to 650-700 but didn't have the lump to get up there so wasn't sure what I'd get.  The top cooked perfectly and the bottom was crisp.  For my tastes, I probably would have gone for a harder crust on the bottom which I think I would have gotten with a higher temp or a longer "soak".

Soooo...I think I'm solid for the time being.   I know I can tech it out, raise the stone, let it sit at temp for an hour and all that...but for an easy mid-week meal I can also close the egg up after it's lit, put a pie on 30 minutes later, and be happy with the results.  

I did like the "premium" dough I used Monday better at Harris Teeter.  It was a little more elastic and I think it had more salt in it.  Salt is good.    Below are some pics.  And thank you guys again for all the fantastic tips.  If I run into issues down the road I'll use this stone for baking in the oven and will buy the 3/4" one for the egg.


See that bit of cheese on the gasket?  That caused me some problems when I opened it up later.  The cheese stuck the two halves together and the bottom gasket lifted off the egg!  I hope when it cools off it'll stick back down.




WHY do I want a large pie?  Well 14" pies seem like personal pies to me.  I want to make a big parlor size pie at home.  16" is the bare minimum for my tastes and I actually would have bought an XL egg if I knew about the pizza benefits when I bought it!

So, a 14" pizza, let's use that as the standard.  It's 154 square inches of pizza.
a 16" stone gives me 30% more pizza area
an 18" stone gives me 65% more pizza area than the 14" AND
a 20" stone <insert angels singing> is over 100% more pizza area than the 14" stone can deliver....a whopping 314 square inches of pizza!   That's a lot of toppings.

YEah, maybe I do over think it.  But I like a big pie. 

Catmandiesel

I had the same issue with cheese on the gasket. I cleaned it up and the gaskets bonded back to there surfaces. Didn't seem to effect it any now.

Focker

KiterTodd said:

Carolina Q said:

Todd, you're overthinking this. ...

LOL, you're right.  Anyway, I tried the pizza again and...

IT WAS AWESOME!!!   Only fault here is I ran out of lump!   I only had enough for one full chimney and the coal that was left in the bottom.   The temp walked up to 550, I started to let it heat, and then it backed down below 500.  Sh&t!   I quickly added the rest of the small chunks from my bag (about 1/4 a chimney), closed up the egg, and it walked back up to 550.  I let it sit for a bit and put the pizza on the stone.

Great results.  It cooked in less than 5 minutes.  I wanted to get up closer to 650-700 but didn't have the lump to get up there so wasn't sure what I'd get.  The top cooked perfectly and the bottom was crisp.  For my tastes, I probably would have gone for a harder crust on the bottom which I think I would have gotten with a higher temp or a longer "soak".

Soooo...I think I'm solid for the time being.   I know I can tech it out, raise the stone, let it sit at temp for an hour and all that...but for an easy mid-week meal I can also close the egg up after it's lit, put a pie on 30 minutes later, and be happy with the results.  

I did like the "premium" dough I used Monday better at Harris Teeter.  It was a little more elastic and I think it had more salt in it.  Salt is good.    Below are some pics.  And thank you guys again for all the fantastic tips.  If I run into issues down the road I'll use this stone for baking in the oven and will buy the 3/4" one for the egg.


See that bit of cheese on the gasket?  That caused me some problems when I opened it up later.  The cheese stuck the two halves together and the bottom gasket lifted off the egg!  I hope when it cools off it'll stick back down.




WHY do I want a large pie?  Well 14" pies seem like personal pies to me.  I want to make a big parlor size pie at home.  16" is the bare minimum for my tastes and I actually would have bought an XL egg if I knew about the pizza benefits when I bought it!

So, a 14" pizza, let's use that as the standard.  It's 154 square inches of pizza.
a 16" stone gives me 30% more pizza area
an 18" stone gives me 65% more pizza area than the 14" AND
a 20" stone <insert angels singing> is over 100% more pizza area than the 14" stone can deliver....a whopping 314 square inches of pizza!   That's a lot of toppings.

YEah, maybe I do over think it.  But I like a big pie. 

Looks great man, 5 minutes at 550 is freaky fast.  With a wide open egg, I was getting at least 4 min. 

Started out with 13" pies on a 14" stone.  Then 15" pies on a 16" Baking Steel.  Then 15" pies on the 16.5" Blackstone Oven.  Now I'm doing 12" pies on the Blackstone. lol

Used to make pies the same size as the stone or steel, but prefer a 1" cushion to keep the crust from burning too much.   

Durangler

I'm happy your happy!
Looks good!
Now get more charcoal, get your dome to 600 and bake 2 16 inchers!!

Focker

Durangler said:

On second thought, you'd probably never choke the fire out.
My bad...

True, but the heat blasts the bottom of the stone or steel instead of wrapping around it, torching the bottom before the top is done.

KiterTodd

(I posted a reply to this, it was held for moderation, I was informed in another thread that it may never get reposted so I'll reply again with less quotes....maybe that'll help);

Focker -

I'm hoping that with the pizza stone on top of a leg-up plate setter, we can avoid torching the bottom of the stone.   So, as long as everything is up to temp things should hopefully work out and nobody gets torched!  We hope...

On the fast cook time @ 550, well, I never calibrated that dome thermometer so take that with a grain of salt, but it is probably close anyway.  I am cooking with the bottom vent full open and no cap, but a closed grill (I thought that's how everybody did it).

Durangler -

2 pizzas!  Yes.    And with them cooking so fast, it doesn't seem like anybody will get hungry while waiting for that second pie to cook.

Jerryb78 -

That ATK recipe sounded interesting (you had me at "easy" ...food processor to fridge) but I can't see the recipe on the ATK site because I'm not a member.  Is a similar easy pizza recipe somewhere else I can search on?  (see Jerry's post above).

Again, appreciate all the thoughts.  I bought the BGE for slow cooking, but think I found an equal favorite in making pizza on it. 

Carolina Q

EDIT... Can't make the video link work, so I added a space after http. You'll have to copy and paste. Sorry.

ATK...

The episode, http /vimeo.com/47961386

Haven't read it to find out if this recipe is the same as ATK, but if they made pies as good as Dom De Marco's (which I doubt), I intend to find out! Only had a Di Fara pie once, but I WILL have it again!

http://www.food.com/recipe/americas-test-kitchen-thin-crust-pizza-472204

Carolina Q

Ok, just made half a batch of the ATK NY dough (enough for one 13" pie). In the next day or three, we shall see. Who knows, I might even use the egg.