Vacuum sealers

radamo

Thank you @horseflesh.  I was not aware of vacuumsealersunlimited.  Looks like where I will buy my FoodSaver bags/rolls from now on.

4Runner

@horseflesh - you sure you got the roll price correct? Dang, I'm getting 11.5" x 50' for $13 a roll. So, I looked at their 8x10 and can get those a just under .05 per bag. Without doing the math, I guess bags are cheaper. I just assumed a roll would be. Good info.

Carolina Q

Careful with the shipping at vac sealers unlimited. They say they don't mark it up and I have no reason to doubt that, but http://www.thesweetattack.com has free shipping to conus. Their bags are a little more, but with free shipping, my order is less expensive. Looks to me like they are the same bags too. 

I'm about to order some from sweetattack. I never have, but RRP has been buying from them for a couple of years. 

Little Steven

4Runner said:

@horseflesh - you sure you got the roll price correct? Dang, I'm getting 11.5" x 50' for $13 a roll. So, I looked at their 8x10 and can get those a just under .05 per bag. Without doing the math, I guess bags are cheaper. I just assumed a roll would be. Good info.

Be careful there. These are not foodsaver bags, they are just plastic bags with no ribbing for airflow. You couldn't use them on a regular vac sealer

@horseflesh Holy cow! That thing is a brute!

New2Q

@LittleSteven Are those 10 cent bags able to handle boiling without off-gassing deadly toxins into the food?

Little Steven

Oh yes. They are food grade plastic. They just aren't as difficult to make as the food saver bags. The food savers are either hot pressed or laminated to create the air passages required for a vacuum system to draw the air out. With a chamber sealer the whole chamber is depressurized so the ribbing isn't required.

New2Q

I need to stop reading this forum.  I was mostly happy with my little hand-help FS vacuum pump this morning but now I want a chamber sealer.

By the way, how does salad hold up to being vacuum sealed in a chamber sealer?  Too much damage to the greens from atmospheric pressure?

horseflesh

Delicate stuff will get brutalized if you pump down to full vacuum. However, with practice you can usually figure out a lesser vacuum setting for most products. 60% vac will make the bag snug, but not crush the food. The tradeoff is, all the oxygen isn't gone. 

One of the reasons I chose my sealer is that I can add a nitrogen flush kit. That way I can bag delicate things like bread in an inert gas "pillow pack."

Carolina--thanks much for that link, I will check it out. I did seriously hours of web searching for chamber bag deals and never ran across that site!

horseflesh

New2Q said: @LittleSteven Are those 10 cent bags able to handle boiling without off-gassing deadly toxins into the food? The bags I use are all food grade, but there is a special extra certification for boil safe bags. 

My quart bags I bought as boil safe for a couple extra cents per bag, but in practice I have very very rarely needed that feature. I now have a sous vide immersion rig, so most of the time I reheat food to something like 130-140F. At those low temperatures, all you need are regular food-safe bags, not boil-safe too. 

4Runner

Little Steven said:

4Runner said:

@horseflesh - you sure you got the roll price correct? Dang, I'm getting 11.5" x 50' for $13 a roll. So, I looked at their 8x10 and can get those a just under .05 per bag. Without doing the math, I guess bags are cheaper. I just assumed a roll would be. Good info.

Be careful there. These are not foodsaver bags, they are just plastic bags with no ribbing for airflow. You couldn't use them on a regular vac sealer

@horseflesh Holy cow! That thing is a brute!

Sorry. Need to clarify. These are on the webrestaurantstore site and are for the external sealer. I get the 3 mil mesh. All good.

krobertsmsn

+1 on Vacmaster chamber sealer. I didn't use my FS sealer very often but got tired of juices flowing into it when I did. I broke down and got vacmaster in Dec and will never look back. I LOVE it. No mess with soups, meats etc.

BigWader

GROUP BUY.... GROUP BUY... GROUP BUY!!!!  )

Canugghead

krobertsmsn said:

...  No mess with soups, meats etc.

That's if the soup has cooled down, right? 

nolan8v

@ horseflesh:

Re: "I got the Minipack MVS-35XP. It was a custom order from BigTray--they left out the printer. That saved a BUNCH of money. I paid WAY WAY WAY LESS than the Polyscience price, and I will be happy to share the details with anyone who wants to know."

I'm interested in the details, since I am currently shopping for one. Please PM me.

Thanks!

New2Q

OK, final question - if you vacuum seal your pork chops in brine will it take significantly less time to brine the chops? 

MaskedMarvel

Nitrogen flush pack?? Lemme call my mortgage guy...

BigWader

@New2Q - I don't think it works to accelerate cure - unless you are talking industrial vacuum tumblers and additives (phosphate, erythorbate) and there is continuous agitation.  Then you can seriously cut down cure times.

I do think it works for marination of meat since there are lots of references to that and even marinating canisters for the food saver.  I know with a real vacuum sealer you can make quick pickles, infused fruit etc.

SenecaTheYounger

Marination under a vacuum offers no advantage versus that done without a vacuum.  It's wishful thinking.

It certainly sounds logical, but here's one study (of a number of them) which shows it offers no real material improvement.  Of the 1% gain in moisture which is added, all of it is lost through handling or cooking.  It's been put there mechanically, in between structures and membranes, rather than by being actually absorbed into the cellular structure.  Like a sponge, it just gets squeezed out again under handling, and/or when the proteins meet the heat and squeeze it all back out.

krobertsmsn

@canugghead I have not tried to seal above luke warm items. I usually cool a bit. I use the chamber sealer on a regular basis and am happy I got it.

horseflesh

New2Q said:

OK, final question - if you vacuum seal your pork chops in brine will it take significantly less time to brine the chops? 

I've tried it in a cheesy vacuum tumbler and in the outer-space like hard vacuum of my chamber sealer. I honestly cannot discern a difference. 

(Tumbling does make a heck of a difference in tenderness, though. I always tumble steaks for 30-60 minutes now.)

horseflesh

Oh, I also meant to say--even though marinating meat under vacuum doesn't seem to help, you definitely CAN infuse some foods very effectively by smashing them in a vacuum bag. Instant pickles, for example--that stuff does work. I made some liqueur-infused nectarine slices, and you could see the flesh turn transparent, and then taste the liqueur in every bite... Very cool. 

KiterTodd

How much is a good quality non-chamber sealer?   I freeze a lot of sauces/soups/stews in Zip Loc freezer bags which work fine for me, but I am hesitant to put meat in the freezer for too long or it gets freezer burn.  (I find it pretty easy to get all the air out when freezing liquids when over the counter freezer bags).   BUT, with this egg and all the goodness it can make...I'd like to freeze some of the meat and be able to just drop it in boiling water to reheat and such.

So, if I don't want to spend a fortune,
but want something to work,
and don't want bags that are prohibitively expensive...
what would you recommend?

horseflesh

Todd, I can't make any great recommendations on non-chamber sealers because I quickly talked myself into upgrading to a chamber when I was shopping. But, from what I have read, you will have a hard time sealing liquids with an edge sealer. You need to do tricks like dangling the bag over the edge of the counter, and I am not sure how well it works. If liquids are a priority you'd be best served by a chamber sealer, and one with the water vapor-resistant rotary oil pump at that. Unfortunately, that's about $1k.

(You could freeze your liquids first, in a ziploc or plastic container, and then freeze the solid lump in an edge sealer too--I think that is how most edge sealer users deal with liquids.)

I can testify that vacuum sealing Egg meats and reheating them in hot water works very well. Boiling water is too hot, though... You cook tri-tip to 125-135F, right? You don't want to reheat it at 212F! A sous vide water bath is the way to go because you can choose the exact temperature you want. I can warm up leftovers that are damn near as good as the day I made them that way. A sous vide rig is very versatile, a must-have for a cooking enthusiast. 

Lit

I love my food saver it works great. Its a couple years old but a newer model. Costco has the newest model on sale right now for $119 and it looks really nice. Half the height as the old model but a little thicker.

Canugghead

@horseflesh what do you think of vacmaster vp215, I think it's their cheapest model with oil rotary pump.

$869, no tax and free shipping in US:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary-vacmaster-vp215-chamber-vacuum-packaging-machine-with-10-seal-bar/120VMASVP215.html

$1600 + 13% Ontario tax in the GWN (the tax more than offsets the exchange rate):

http://www.amazon.ca/Cedarlane-Culinary-VP215C-VacMaster%C2%AE-VP215/dp/B004MCFX54

horseflesh

Keep in mind I never used a 215C but from what I read it's a good unit. I was going to get one before I talked myself into a fancier Minipack. 

Here are a couple of good forum threads for chamber sealer shoppers... you might be able to find someone with a 215C to answer questions. 

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/137429-chamber-vacuum-sealers-2011–2014/

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/147165-chamber-vacuum-sealers-2014–/

horseflesh

Oh, since we're all talking about sealers, this is an article that any shopper should look at--it discusses how vacuum levels may change the texture of meat. 

http://www.cookingissues.com/2009/06/17/boring-but-useful-technical-post-vacuum-machines-affect-the-texture-of-your-meat/

The bottom line is that if you are just interested in cooking SV you do not need a fancy chamber sealer. A chamber sealer is all kinds of fun, but you can probably do SV without any kind of sealer. 

If you do use a powerful sealer, you may want to be careful with the vacuum levels used for things like chicken and fish. 

I have found that fish is indeed delicate, beef is extremely resilient, and I am not yet sure about chicken--but I usually do chicken at 90-95% anyway, just in case. 

krobertsmsn

try vacuumsealersunlimited. Got my VP 120 for $798, shipped, no tax.

krobertsmsn

BTW-would rec the 115 over the 120. The diff is the 120 has an auto lid open/close that I find irritatingly slow. Stay away from the 112-issues with the lid holding up.

4Runner

VP 120 for $779. http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary-vacmaster-vp120-chamber-vacuum-packaging-machine-with-11-1-2-seal-bar-automatic-lid/120VMASVP120.html VP 115 for $699. http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ary-vacmaster-vp115-chamber-vacuum-packaging-machine-with-11-1-2-seal-bar-manual-lid/120VMASVP115.html