Neo-Neapolitan Pizza

Federalist226

As some of you know, I've been in pursuit of a wood-fire-oven-like experience on the egg. Yesterday was my best effort. Texture and flavor were pretty much spot on.

Pizzas were cooked at stone temp of 700+ with dome of 800+. Dough is 65% hydration, sourdough starter, tipo 00 flour, 48 hour ferment (36 hours at 65*, 12 hours at 75*).

**I call it Neo-Neapolitan because real NP is cooked on a WFO.

Eggcelsior

Looks good and great spring. How long did they cook?

Mickey

Very nice

CPARKTX

Very nice...how long do you preheat your stone?  Are you taking IR reading to confirm at temp? 

Federalist226

Cook was about 2 or 2.5 minutes. My preheat procedure is to light the egg and leave it wide open until my cooking surface (I use firebricks, which heat up more slowly than the regular pizza stone) is 700*, then I launch my first pie. If the firebricks start getting too hot, which happens after a couple of pizzas, I spray it with water from a squirt bottle to bring the temp down. Yes, I use an IR.

bicktrav

I've also been on the hunt for an authentic neapolitan style pizza.  Yours looks exceptional--particularly the blistered crust.  Any chance you'd be willing to share the specifics of your dough recipe beat-by-beat?  

Federalist226

I can't take any credit for the dough, except to the extent I can follow a recipe. I followed this procedure almost to the letter:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20477.0

Previously I was using Peter Reinhart's recipe from the Bread Bakers Apprentice. The recipe in the link had vastly better results.

bicktrav said:

I've also been on the hunt for an authentic neapolitan style pizza.  Yours looks exceptional--particularly the blistered crust.  Any chance you'd be willing to share the specifics of your dough recipe beat-by-beat?  

bicktrav

Federalist226 said:

I can't take any credit for the dough, except to the extent I can follow a recipe. I followed this procedure almost to the letter:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20477.0

Previously I was using Peter Reinhart's recipe from the Bread Bakers Apprentice. The recipe in the link had vastly better results.

bicktrav said:

I've also been on the hunt for an authentic neapolitan style pizza.  Yours looks exceptional--particularly the blistered crust.  Any chance you'd be willing to share the specifics of your dough recipe beat-by-beat?  

Thank you!  Any tips on how to get your egg to the right temp?  I've been having trouble getting it above 650 or so once I've got the plate setter and stone in. 

caliking

Nice pies! And thanks for the recipe link. The one time I tried tipo 00 flour i had mediocre results, most likely because I did not get the egg hot enough (dome was about 650°F)

Federalist226

bicktrav said:

Federalist226 said:

I can't take any credit for the dough, except to the extent I can follow a recipe. I followed this procedure almost to the letter:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20477.0

Previously I was using Peter Reinhart's recipe from the Bread Bakers Apprentice. The recipe in the link had vastly better results.

bicktrav said:

I've also been on the hunt for an authentic neapolitan style pizza.  Yours looks exceptional--particularly the blistered crust.  Any chance you'd be willing to share the specifics of your dough recipe beat-by-beat?  

Thank you!  Any tips on how to get your egg to the right temp?  I've been having trouble getting it above 650 or so once I've got the plate setter and stone in. 

I use a HiQue grate rather than the BGE fire grate, which probably helps. But even before the HiQue I never had trouble getting to temp with a platesetter. Actually, my current setup is PS legs down > green egg feet > BGE pizza stone > firebricks. So I've got a lot of stuff in my egg and no problem getting the right amount of fire. Perhaps you should get a good fire going before you add in the PS and pizza stone. Once a good fire is going, it really wants to keep burning.

Federalist226

caliking said:

Nice pies! And thanks for the recipe link. The one time I tried tipo 00 flour i had mediocre results, most likely because I did not get the egg hot enough (dome was about 650°F)

I think that's right. I've also had better luck with Animo Caputo 00 than with other tipo 00 flours. What did you use?

bicktrav

Federalist226 said:

bicktrav said:

Federalist226 said:

I can't take any credit for the dough, except to the extent I can follow a recipe. I followed this procedure almost to the letter:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20477.0

Previously I was using Peter Reinhart's recipe from the Bread Bakers Apprentice. The recipe in the link had vastly better results.

bicktrav said:

I've also been on the hunt for an authentic neapolitan style pizza.  Yours looks exceptional--particularly the blistered crust.  Any chance you'd be willing to share the specifics of your dough recipe beat-by-beat?  

Thank you!  Any tips on how to get your egg to the right temp?  I've been having trouble getting it above 650 or so once I've got the plate setter and stone in. 

I use a HiQue grate rather than the BGE fire grate, which probably helps. But even before the HiQue I never had trouble getting to temp with a platesetter. Actually, my current setup is PS legs down > green egg feet > BGE pizza stone > firebricks. So I've got a lot of stuff in my egg and no problem getting the right amount of fire. Perhaps you should get a good fire going before you add in the PS and pizza stone. Once a good fire is going, it really wants to keep burning.

Yeah, I think I've just had lackluster fires with a meager amount of charcoal when I've tried.  I've also got a replacement grate being shipped to me now.  Not the HiQue, but should have a similar effect.  Thanks for all your help!

Federalist226

I fill the firebox all the way to the brim for these extended high temp cooks. And I usually burn through 4/5 or more.

ringkingpin

Wow, that looks pretty darn good for a pizza made in the egg...  Of course, the biggest hudle is trying to get enough convection / heat on TOP of the pizza so that it cooks evenly.  It still looks a little imbalanced (charred on the bottom with cheese still white) but it's getting pretty darn close.  Ever consider using a screen halfway through the bake?  I try to avoid using screens because they tend to dry out the dough but it might be just the ticket for you.

How did the dough bake?  Was there a gumline at all?  It looks like you're getting good leoparding around the crown because the heat is wicking around your diffuser plate and directly up and out the chimney.  If there was only a way to have a really offset vent on the egg, lol.  Keep up the good work.

Federalist226

Thanks for the feedback, ringkingpin. Dough was very soft and chewy, which is what I was looking for in a Neapolitan pizza. There was a thin gumline. Light charring on the bottom and crust with melted but still white cheese are characteristics of NP pizza, so I don't view those as bad. NY-Neapolitan has more of a fully melted cheese and less char, but is also cooked at a much lower temperature. My wife prefers NY style, so that's going to be my next pursuit.

ringkingpin said:

Wow, that looks pretty darn good for a pizza made in the egg...  Of course, the biggest hudle is trying to get enough convection / heat on TOP of the pizza so that it cooks evenly.  It still looks a little imbalanced (charred on the bottom with cheese still white) but it's getting pretty darn close.  Ever consider using a screen halfway through the bake?  I try to avoid using screens because they tend to dry out the dough but it might be just the ticket for you.

How did the dough bake?  Was there a gumline at all?  It looks like you're getting good leoparding around the crown because the heat is wicking around your diffuser plate and directly up and out the chimney.  If there was only a way to have a really offset vent on the egg, lol.  Keep up the good work.

ringkingpin

Awesome, it really looks like you're on the right path!  I'll be curious to see how your next bakes go so please keep us informed.

Was the char acceptable?  If not, maybe check out one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Winware-16-Inch-Seamless-Aluminum-Screen/dp/B001CI8VHS

I used to do pizzas on my grills and then started doing bakes in my home oven and tricking the t-stat with frozen wash clothes, lol.  Finally I pulled the trigger on a 2stone oven and haven't looked back since.  I've worked a number of WFO's and their awesome but you can't deny a 20 minute heat up time.  I just picked up my 23rd, 55lb bag of 00 flour, lol.  

I usually bake my pseudo neo's where I see a floor temp of 720 in the front, 820 in the back (over the burner) and around 950-1000 on the ceiling of the 2stone.  The thing about the 2stone is copious amounts of convection ripping across the entire pie.

Still, impressed with your results!

bicktrav

Did you use cornmeal on the bottom to keep it from sticking to the peel?  I don't think I've ever had a Neapolitan style pizza that used cornmeal, but I'm not sure how else to keep it from sticking.  What was your method?

Federalist226

The char was acceptable to me, but I'll keep the screen in mind. I would love to get a 2stone, though I do plan on (one day) building a WFO. I bought my first 55 lb bag of 00 flour this past weekend, so I've got a lot of catching up to do!

ringkingpin said:

Awesome, it really looks like you're on the right path!  I'll be curious to see how your next bakes go so please keep us informed.

Was the char acceptable?  If not, maybe check out one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Winware-16-Inch-Seamless-Aluminum-Screen/dp/B001CI8VHS

I used to do pizzas on my grills and then started doing bakes in my home oven and tricking the t-stat with frozen wash clothes, lol.  Finally I pulled the trigger on a 2stone oven and haven't looked back since.  I've worked a number of WFO's and their awesome but you can't deny a 20 minute heat up time.  I just picked up my 23rd, 55lb bag of 00 flour, lol.  

I usually bake my pseudo neo's where I see a floor temp of 720 in the front, 820 in the back (over the burner) and around 950-1000 on the ceiling of the 2stone.  The thing about the 2stone is copious amounts of convection ripping across the entire pie.

Still, impressed with your results!

ringkingpin

Keep plugging away Fed, only 1200 lbs of flour to go! lol

As an aside, I like to dump my 55lb bags in this container:

http://www.containerstore.com/shop?productId=10004271&N=&Ntt=dog+food+storage

I'm sure you know that one drop of water or even a little humidity can wreck the entire batch of flour.  You can fix it but drying 55lbs of flour in the oven isn't my idea of a good time!

I imagine you were using the 00 for the peel too?  At those temps, cornmeal just turns to burnt sugar.  I have never used it but I have seen an extra fine mill of corn flour used with great results by Pepe Franco.  He said he likes to use it because he can open a dough ball, allow it to sit in the corn meal and it won't be absorbed by the moisture in teh dough.  Makes sense to me, just haven't tried it.

I've tried rice flour and didn't like it so I just use the 00 for the peel too.  For introducing the pizza to my 2stone, I use one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/13-inch-Rectangular-Perforated-Pizza-Peel/dp/B008A1TK4S/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1376346492&sr=1-4&keywords=pizza+peel

It works very, very well with the dough sliding around freely.  Also, any peel flour you put on there will fall through the slots when you're putting the pizza on the stone

Federalist226

ringkingpin said:

I have a food grade bucket with the gamma lid for storing the flour. Same basic concept as the storage container you posted. I've been lusting after one of those perforated peels!

SMITTYtheSMOKER

I use parchment paper instead of cornmeal or flour to slid on and off.  Once the dough starts to crust up it can be removed.

ringkingpin

Smitty, that's a very interesting technique.  I like it!  

I wonder what the heat limit is for parchment paper?

bicktrav

Yeah, the heat limit is my worry about parchment paper. Is it ok at 800 degrees?

SMITTYtheSMOKER

Why would it be a problem burning once its on the Egg?  We cook at 600 and remove after 5 minutes, you could remove sooner if cooking hotter I would think.