trex table question

frankc623

Hey all,

I am thinking about building a table for my L-BGE. Does anyone know it Trex stand up to the heat the BGE produces?

Thanks,

Frank

BigGreenJon

I found this on their website:

Self-Ignition temp:  743 F

Flame-Ignition temp:  698 F

http://www.trex.com/trex/groups/content/@techsvc/documents/document/trex_002272.pdf

frankc623

thanks BigGreenJon, i appreciate the help!

BigGreenJon

No problem.  I thought about building my table with a similar product but in the end it was just too expensive.

Good luck!

ChokeOnSmoke

Trex is a great idea!  I've had a Trex deck for almost 10 years now and haven't spent 1 second on maintenance in those 10 years.  It still looks great!  If I recall, it was about 1.5 times as much $$ to do Trex as it would have been for "regular wood".  Well worth the extra cash.

fairchase

Keep  in mind that trex doesn't provide structural support like wood.

cortguitarman

Yes. Trex will hold up to the temps. A friend of mine has a table made from Trex. If available in your area, look for Azek. Most lumber companies carry it. I am a deck contractor and I must say that Azek is the nicest decking I have ever worked with. 100% cellular pvc. No fading, mildewing, or mold. Trex transcends is also a cellular pvc product and also very good. I don't know about trex, but Azek carries a lifetime warranty.

cortguitarman

The bottom shelf of my table is built out of Trex transcends. I would have gone with the Azek, but Lowes carried the Trex and I didn't want to go to my normal lumber supplier because Lowes was closer.

frankc623

Thanks for all of the info guys. I need to get some prices before I decide if I will go with Trex, Azek(if available) or wood. 

stevesails

if i were to do it over , I would use cedar or presssure treated for the frame, and Trex for the top,  easy cleanup!

 

cortguitarman

Azek here in central PA runs about $2.60/ft. Trex is slightly cheaper. Approx. $2.50/ft. Wood is about $1.25/ft for PT pine. Pvc decking is 100% maintenance free. You do have to build the frame out of PT lumber. All types of trex, Azek, or other composits have no structural strength.

stike

PT isn't the best structurally, imnsho.  it's a wet fast-growth pine.  cedar would look better and perform better over time.

you don't really get any benefit for the extra expense of PT if it is not in contact with the ground or in  a situation where rot can occur.  in open air, dry, as in a table or other furniture, no real benefit.  and being wet, when you cacnk down on connections, you can get crushing.  may even become loose as the wood dries too.  i think looks are as important as performance.  for my money, mahogany, cedar, ipe, etc. all have great value because they look good, last, are structurally solid, and rot/insect resistant

i think the problem with cedar, mahogany, teak etc.  is that we have been made to expect they should look brand new forever, rather than live with the silver grey patina that develops over time. their only maintnance issue is FINISH maintenance.  the wood will be fine.  it's whether we can accept that natural weathered look, or whether we want perpetual perfection.

Ragtop99

I think the PT holds up well against the elements.  I've used it for outdoor work even when there is no ground contact.  I do agree that when you crank down on bolts, that they can crush.  Typically I go up a size or two in washer if I think it is going to be a problem.  A PT frame with Trex/Azek would be a decent solution.

I haven't done enough with Cedar to comment on whether it out performs. 

stike

just not sure what the benny to PT is if not used in way it was intended.

bugs and rot aren't going to attack it thru the open air, so then it becomes a structural question.  it may technically be structurally rated, but not to any better advantage than any other wood. the premium paid is for the pressure treating.  i use it, but never for finish purposes, and rarely for any structure that isn't going to be in contact with the ground.

just saying, cedar is about the same (as an example), and takes finish much better, has much closer growth rings, and is far more stable, leff prone to twisting, and no need to dry out

cortguitarman

PT isn't the best structurally, imnsho.  it's a wet fast-growth pine.  cedar would look better and perform better over time.

you don't really get any benefit for the extra expense of PT if it is not in contact with the ground or in  a situation where rot can occur.  in open air, dry, as in a table or other furniture, no real benefit.  and being wet, when you cacnk down on connections, you can get crushing.  may even become loose as the wood dries too.  i think looks are as important as performance.  for my money, mahogany, cedar, ipe, etc. all have great value because they look good, last, are structurally solid, and rot/insect resistant

i think the problem with cedar, mahogany, teak etc.  is that we have been made to expect they should look brand new forever, rather than live with the silver grey patina that develops over time. their only maintnance issue is FINISH maintenance.  the wood will be fine.  it's whether we can accept that natural weathered look, or whether we want perpetual perfection.

Sorry, Stike. I have to disagree with you here. First of all, pressure treated is significantly cheaper than cedar. Therefore, there is no additional expense. You are right, the PT is very wet, but will dry out quickly when exposed to the elements. As long as it is fastened securely, it will not twist and fasteners will not pull. Especially if you use screws. Another option is to stack the lumber in a garage with air space around it for 2 weeks to dry it out. Then, no problems.

As far as ground contact goes, not all pressure treated is created equally. 4x4's, 6x6, & 4x6 are rated for ground contact with a higher concentration of chemicals to resist rot. The dimensional 2x lumber and decking is not rated for ground contact. When placed in contact with the ground, these materials will rot more quickly. However, the ground contact lumber will last 30+ years.

Pressure treated is also very structurally stable. Building codes wouldn't require decks and outdoor structures to be built with it if it weren't structurally stable. You can certainly use cedar, ipe, and others for decking, but framing is always pressure treated.

Pressure treated will weather the same as any other wood that is outside. A good coat of deck stain every few years on the frame will take care of that issue. I prefer Sikkens stain, myself. Using the trex or azek for a top will require no stains or chemicals. It will remain smooth, easy to clean, and will not weather. (Some fading is expected, but it will not crack or split. Also, the PT could be covered with pvc trim boards for a completely maintenance free table.

One thing is for certain, you are 100 times better on the grill than me, but I know my stuff about lumber. All of the types of lumber you mentioned are viable options. White Oak is another great option. Probably the best choice out of all. But dollar for dollar you will spend way more on a table made of these materials than one made from PT lumber and pvc decking. That is my opinion for what it's worth. No disrespect. Just my professional opinion.

cortguitarman

If you do decide on cedar, make sure you use stainless steel screws. Galvanized screws will discolor the wood and give you black spots around the screw holes.

stike

@cortguitarman.

been designing and building for 25+ years, before PT was common.  as architects, we were schooled in the spec and use of materials by the manufacturers and underwriters. i'm not trying to enter into an internet-resume war.  just saying, i know some things too, and have practical experience. 

my essential point is that it (PT) is oversold these days. there is literally no reason to make a porch railing from it, other than people think they have some extra protection.  in fact, they have a pine rail which will check and split, unless they maintain and finish it like any other wood.

cedar, mahogany, etc. are all generally much closer grained, less liketly to split, and (in many cases) require no maintenance other than if you want finish.  meaning, if you want it stained, or painted, or loking 'fresh', then by all means, finish it.  but you don't have to.  there's a reason boats are made from mahogany.  no one is making them from PT

any glance at a pile of green PPT in a big-box store shows fully a third of it twisted like a pretzel.

stuff is fit for what it is designed for, not for finish work.
building inspectors may require decks to be PT, but they don't need to be per code.  maybe down south, if it is within 18" of the ground (termites).  but i have seen way too many porches of unfinished pT, or docks made from PT, which check and splinter badly within just a few years.

stuff is crap. unless used for sleepers, etc.

built a porch myself with it this year. PT 2x2 sleepers over EPDM, with mahogany over that.  sills of PT (overkill) with regular kiln-dried framing, clad in 1x10 bevelled cedar siding.  i use PT where it offers a benefit.

it is a personal decision.  i am just advocating that folks not simply assume that PT is an automatic fix, no more than stainless is non-rusting, or vinyl-siding is maintenance free.  it isn't, and they aren't

cortguitarman

@stike
I'm not saying that you are wrong. All of the information you provided was correct. The wood choices you've suggested are all viable choices and I completely understand that tight grain promotes less checking and splitting. If I were building a table with drawers and cabinet doors, I wouldn't dream of using pressure treated. I'd use white oak, ipe, mahogany, or cedar. However, for a frame situation, I would, and have used PT.

I don't quite understand your comment about building inspectors requiring PT, but them not needing to be per code. The rule/building code here in PA and in VA, where I used to live was PT from ground to frame. Cedar, Ipe, etc. from deck up to rails.

I don't have the architectural background that you do. I only speak from experience in the field and what I know. I am a teacher by winter and a licensed contractor by spring and summer. The teacher in me is always trying to learn new and better ways of doing things. Thanks for the insight. I do respect your opinion and knowledge. On a similar note, have you ever seen enso -thermo wood? It is the newest treatment for outdoor lumber.

Kiln dried, no chemicals. It is heat treated to a point where the sap in the wood actually fills the pores making it impervious to moisture and rot resistant. Unlike PT lumber, it is dry like interior lumber. Great stuff, but not approved for ground contact.

In the end, it is a personal choice. Both will turn out fine and all will require some maintenance.