Question for the handgun owners...

Photo Egg

I thought you had your truck stolen a short time ago.
Don't keep your beer in your truck. :laugh:

fishlessman

had one vandalized at work last summer by a 13 year old, should be going to court now or soon but who knows with the mass system up here

RVH

A white light attached to your Glock will be fine. The FBI used to teach the old "hold the light out to the side" style back in the 1950's. They don't teach that method now, as they instruct one to shoot with ones light held/mounted on the handgun. The FBI maintains that this is much better and that the belief a light to ones side will draw the fire is suspect. Many law enforcement agencies are now training with mounted lights. Get a modern, very bright light. While the subject is blinded by your light you will have a huge advantage, as well as a much more stable firing platform (assuming a two-handed grip).
Most shotguns (pump or auto) can be secured with a "gun-jacket" safety device. Another option is to buy a Gun Locker type of mini-safe. These are installed between the studs of a wall and have an electronic lock. They offer them in shoulder arm lengths. They are shallow enough to be installed in a common wall separating two rooms. It would take some degree of effort to defeat or remove one.
As others have stated, a good shotgun is hard to top for home defense, or any situation occurring within it's effective range. A good load to use if one is "penetration sensitive" is a #4 Turkey round. I keep mine loaded with #000 Buck. And slugs.
The Glock is generally a fine handgun and the model 22 is carried by the bulk of all U.S. law enforcement officers. The chamber is cut over-sized and the portion located at the "6 o'clock" position is greatly relieved. This helps to insure that any round will feed correctly from the magazine as the slide moves forward into battery. It also causes a lack of support for the round, which is usually not a problem: just don't plan to reload any brass fired from a Glock, as it will be weakened where it lacked support, and one might just experience the infamous "Glock Ka-Boom". They are not blowing up left and right, but it is something to consider. Again, this is only for the reloaded cartridges.
If you choose to mount a light on your G-22, it would be a good idea to test-fire the pistol with about 200 rounds of your preferred defensive ammo (this will be expensive) to insure proper functioning while the light is attached. Sometimes having something hanging on the frame can adversely effect proper operation. Not too often but it is wise to check.
Also, a good paddle style holster made for your handgun/light combination can come in handy. You might be surprised by the number of things you want to do in an after-action situation while retaining control of your weapon. Stuffing it into your pants isn't really that groovy.
Just my 0.73 .

ResQue

A lot of good info, thanks.

fishinjdb

Good choice with the Glock, as I own a couple. I would save the money and not buy a light or laser. I do like the shotgun for home defense. I also agree 100% with the 3 shot rule. It is always better if there is only "one" story. You'll be fine whichever way you go.

John

RVH

I would make sure you have a light. What if your drunken neighbor mistakenly tries his house key in your lock, can't get in, and smashes a window, all the while thinking he is at his residence. It would be a pretty good thing to be able to identify him as just your neighbor, as opposed to shooting an intruder who meant no harm.
Yeah, lights are good. Positive target identification is good.

icemncmth

I started out Skeet shooting when I was a kid and competed around the country and against adults till I was about 19.

With "bullseye" pistol shooting I have shot 22 cal, I have several guns a custom Ruger slab sided 22, a Remington custom 22. etc. Those guns are crazy accurate. Then add on the dot scopes etc.

I have a custom 45 that I made when I was younger with a Caspian frame and slide. I shimmed and adjusted trigger and grip for my big hands. It is also a speed shooter.

Now for rifle comp. I was a long range shooter. I have two rifles that I made. These are custom guns that were designed to shoot the 600+ yard matches. These are 30-06 and a wildcat 06-06.

I also shoot 22 cal and I have a couple of nice custom 22lr and along with a CZ 223 that has a set trigger and it is also a tack driver.

Whew...And I have shot BPC. Sharp Shilo's
I've had several of those and 40-65 was my caliber of choice for the Sharp rifle. I also shot a Axtell 45-70. These are open sites and shoot 500 meter comps.

I will leave out my Prone shooting pistols.

I've kept most of my guns except for the one's I was good shooting with but really didn't like.

I don't shoot comp anymore because the cost has gotten crazy with the traveling, practicing etc. My last competition was a 1000 yard shoot off and I came in second. The guy who won showed up in a Semi and was sponsored by a ton of companies. He said his rifle was worth over $100,000.00. He asked me who had made mine and I told him I had and had less than
$1000 bucks in it.

icemncmth

Great info but one thing most forget is muzzle flash. You need to learn to shoot and blink at the same time. If you don't your flash will temp blind you or at least make it harder to see.

icemncmth

In Oklahoma there is someone currently on trial for killing some guy who was stealing from his store. The problem is he shot the guy several times. First in the head and 5 times in the chest. He is on trial because it was "excessive force".. :blink:

I'm like you shoot to kill. When I was younger I shot my shotgun through our front window at a guy trying to break in.

I hit him in the face and shoulder. Didn't kill him because he was able to run away. The cops came and said to me..."glad you shot him in the house and he fell outside"..

I just said "Yep".

civil eggineer

I own virtually every caliber of handgun along with shotguns, assault rifles, etc but I digress.

My favorite handgun bar none is a Kimber 45 Ultra Carry. The 45 caliber is one of the nicest, smoothest shooting handguns there is. The recoil is gentile following the kabooom. I also own a couple of .380s and 9mm and their kick is far greater in my opinion. I will divulge I do not own a .40 caliber because why? The faster handgun rounds produce more recoil and greater punch through power. Nothing compares to the slow, lumbering, round of a .45 for knock down in my opinion.

civil eggineer

I would attend his funeral. Anyone who breaks into my home is fair game. Everyone must be responsible for their actions...and those actions would be tragic.

ResQue

Wow, $100,000 dollars! The Marine Corps gave me mine for free (actually paid in blood and sweat) and it was highly accurate. The longest I shot the M40 was 1200 meters. I would like to build a .308 but I have to finish my AR-15 first. I never did comp with pistols though. Like I said, I did M1 Garand for the NRA and in high school I did air rifles. We were top 3 Nationally and just barely missed the Olympics in Atlanta.

ResQue

I figure that my compensated model will help with the kick.

RVH

icemncmth wrote:

In Oklahoma there is someone currently on trial for killing some guy who was stealing from his store. The problem is he shot the guy several times. First in the head and 5 times in the chest. He is on trial because it was "excessive force".. :blink:

I'm like you shoot to kill. When I was younger I shot my shotgun through our front window at a guy trying to break in.

I hit him in the face and shoulder. Didn't kill him because he was able to run away. The cops came and said to me..."glad you shot him in the house and he fell outside"..

I just said "Yep".

The incident mentioned involves two robbers, not thieves. They were both boys and one had a handgun. After shooting one of them in the head, the clerk chased the other one out of the store and down the street. The clerk then re-entered the store, passing the downed robber, retrieved an additional handgun, returned to the downed robber, and fired repeatedly into his chest area. I believe him to be blameless in this action and many think the Okla County D.A. is acting on this out of policical considerations.

icemncmth

I agree with you...

They were armed and he had been robed before. He said the kid moved and he shot again.

I don't have a problem with that.

RVH

civil eggineer wrote:

I would attend his funeral. Anyone who breaks into my home is fair game. Everyone must be responsible for their actions...and those actions would be tragic.

I agree. Those actions would be tragic....for the both of you. I do assume that most people would choose to identify a target as an actual (or at least quite probable) threat to their safety before they choose to send rounds down range. And further, that after identifying an intruder as a confused drunken neighbor with no criminal intent, would elect not to kill them regardless of whether or not the neighbor used very poor judgement and placed herself in a position which would allow someone to legally kill her. I'm sure the neighbor would thank them in the morning.
Now, if said neighbor does not plan to pay for the damages then all bets are off. :P

FlaPoolman

Anyone know where I can get this engraving? :laugh:

RVH

Pat, I think I can actually come up with the place!

fire egger

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I like it!!!

stike

that's pretty funny. :laugh:

i can't help but think, though, that among all the tough talk, there's maybe a tiny-less-than-handful of people here who may have actually shot and killed another human being. :unsure:

and at least among the vets i've met, those that HAVE shot and killed another person never seemed overly amped about it, or seemed excited about the possibility of having the chance to do it again.

i do know a few kids who have grown up with call of duty, and are now in the service, and even they seem to vacillate between "oh, man, you won't believe this..." and "well, i don't really want to talk about it"

i'm thinking (and i think it's a good thing, generally), that there's a lot more talk than reality. i don't think anyone truly would get their ya-yas killing someone, even in self defense.

least i hope they wouldn't find it 'fun' :unsure:

but that's just me.

and yes, i own guns. just not the kind made for showing off and pleasuring one's self to, i guess :laugh:

FlaPoolman

Very true Jeff. Before getting my permit 15 years ago I had a tendency to jump into a confrontation knowing (or thinking) that swapping punches in the parking lot wasn't such a bad thing but since then it's become very easy to just smile and walk away knowing the results would be permanent. Times are different than when I grew up but if confronted with the situation one can only hope that the training would kick in while also hoping that I will never have to experience it. I do have to admit that going to the range and busting up a bunch of targets is a blast :laugh:
Yes here I'll have some fun but in real life owning and carrying a weapon is something that should never be taken lightly just don't walk on my yard :laugh:

Cruezn

I carry a ruger .380 LCP, and have my 9mm Beretta by the bed.

civil eggineer

If you want to wait to determine their true intent, if they are intoxicated, and harmless you better hope they didn't come to kill you or you and your family will be dead. Nobody has the right to break into a residence and use being drunk an excuse. I have been very drunk many times in my life and never considered smashing a window and breaking into someone elses home. In most instances you will have a very few seconds to assess the threat and respond. If you want gaurantees, you and your family will be on the evening news with chaulk lines around your bodies. The very scenario happened near here in a college town. The intruder was shot and killed...no charges filed.

RVH

Tim, it was just an example. Target identification IS a good thing to practice. "Hey, I better shoot this intruder....Darlene!!! What the hell are you doing in my house??!!!" elapsed time: less than it would take the intruder to index on to you.

If the dark figure in the night is not known to you, and you can make a FAST determination, no one should blame you for defending hearth and home.
I never stated that being drunk is an excuse for breaking into a home. I have arrested people who have tried as much (or claimed to be high).Some time ago there was an older woman living alone on a large property. A drunken man wrecked his car about 1/4 mile down the dirt road from her. He arrived at her house and she awoke to the sound of her dogs barking, grabbed her shotgun, and yelled for him to leave. He threw an outdoor chair through the sliding glass door, and she killed him. No charges filed, nor should they have been. He had quite a history in the area. After the investigation (which was pretty short), "someone" even gave her some fresh shot shells...don't know who that could have been.
Most actions are judged by the "reasonable man" standard. I guess differing opinions of what is reasonable is what makes a horse race.
Perhaps I should have started my example with "suppose your live at home college kid comes home drunk at 3:00am and can't seem to get his key in the lock, so he smashes a window....."

civil eggineer

I have a door bell outside and anyone is free to use it. When someone smashes my window and enters my property in the middle of the night they better be saying the right thing in a hurry. If I yell I have a gun and they don't immediately change their attitude...
It sounds like you're a law enforcement officer in some capacity and I can respect that but as they say "cops are only minutes away when seconds count." If I had teen age children who were not home I would use extra caution but many people have been killed by intruders because they exercised far too much caution. If someone is coming to rob you and has no problem killing you in the process...they already know what they are willing to do and hesitation on your part to defend your family will get you killed.

RVH

civil eggineer wrote:

I have a door bell outside and anyone is free to use it. When someone smashes my window and enters my property in the middle of the night they better be saying the right thing in a hurry. If I yell I have a gun and they don't immediately change their attitude...

[This is a good example of acting prudently. This is target identification: did the intruder say the right thing-Yes= not a good target at this time=no shoot
- No= good target at this time=shoot

I never meant to leave the impression I advocate that you should attempt to sit down and interview at length the intruder, or to ascertain whether or not he had a deprived childhood. Protect yourself. Protect your family. But having the ability, and utilizing it, to discern a probable threat from a non-threat can save one from going through what a homeowner in Baton Rouge went through after killing a Japanese exchange student in the early 90's. And yes, I do realize we are talking about someone standing within your residence and that the student was killed while in the yard.
Hopefully you live in a jurisdiction that does not require "duty to retreat" from it's citizens, which is a violation of every natural law known to man. If you live in a "red" state you probably don't have much to worry about. If you live in a "blue" state you might want to check.]




It sounds like you're a law enforcement officer in some capacity and I can respect that but as they say "cops are only minutes away when seconds count." If I had teen age children who were not home I would use extra caution but many people have been killed by intruders because they exercised far too much caution. If someone is coming to rob you and has no problem killing you in the process...they already know what they are willing to do and hesitation on your part to defend your family will get you killed.

I am well aware that response times can be not just minutes but an hour or more. Clearly, you understand that the police can not be counted on to solve your immediate-threat situations and you are prepared to protect yourself as well as your family. Some people are sheep, and some are sheep dogs. I believe you to be the latter. (please see "The Parable of the Sheep" by Charles Riggs). Tim, I know you're one of the good guys.
I just advocate target identification. And having plenty of firearms within reach from all points of the residence. And the presence of conviction to use them, if needed. And world peace.... :laugh:

nuynai

Gotta agree with Fidel, with the exception of buying a Glock. Lasers tell the bad guy where to shoot. Home defense, is a shotgun. Nothing speaks louder than someone racking in a round to a shotgun.