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Maybe a silly question RE: corned beef

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kdstiles
kdstiles Posts: 1
edited November -1 in EggHead Forum
Anyone ever smoked a pre-packaged corned beef brisket? If so, how did it turn out? Thanks!
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  • Hoss
    Hoss Posts: 14,600
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    I make Pastrami out of it.The recipe is on Thirdeye's website.You rinse it,soak it,season it and smoke it.DELISH!!!The site is
    http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/
    Scrool down to recipes,you'll find it! ;)
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  • Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker
    Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker Posts: 3,743
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    you invented a new word for cruising the forum: "scrool"

    scroll+drool="scrool"

    well done, whether on purpose or not!
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  • Marc from IL
    Marc from IL Posts: 499
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    stripsteak wrote:
    you invented a new word for cruising the forum: "scrool"

    scroll+drool="scrool"

    well done, whether on purpose or not!



    LOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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  • Bacchus
    Bacchus Posts: 6,019
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    Hoss, when using Thirdeye's technique, do you cook using the regular or "wet" method? It is noted that if using the wet method you can foil or braise in covered D.O. I am thinking of just transfering to a crockpot. :blush:
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  • ledmond
    ledmond Posts: 88
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    I too have made Pastrami, soaking & draining 1-2 days, smoke at about 250 dome and ended up with the most tender Pastrami you could imagine.
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  • Bacchus
    Bacchus Posts: 6,019
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    Care to expound on your methodology?

    I'm hoping this thread gets some more traction. I am thinking of doing a few of these over the weekend to give to my drunken Irish friends. Ok I will be drunk too, so I will just call them friends. :)
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    soak it a day changing out the water a couple times, low and slow it to around 165/175, wrap in foil and chill it, slice real thin. i buy a couple after stpats day when they go on sale and freeze them for later use. i get the grey style which i believe is only local to the boston area

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    dont forget the guinness B)

    2004_0105Image0008.jpg
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Boilermaker Ben
    Boilermaker Ben Posts: 1,956
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    I'm keeping an eye on this thread. I've got 5 lbs of brisket curing in the fridge at the moment. I'll be making corned beef and cabbage on Monday. But if I've got fewer people than expected coming over, I'll reduce the amount of corned beef for Monday, and use the rest for pastrami.

    I'm kind of surprised that all the recommendations here (including those on thirdeye's site) call for a 1-2 day soak. After spending 5 days getting flavor INTO the brisket, it seems a little odd that I'd then spend two days getting it back out.

    The instructions I've been reading for corning beef don't mention a soak when preparing it for slicing for corned beef sandwiches. Why is it different for pastrami? Is pastrami generally less salty than corned beef? Or is it because corned beef (for sandwiches) is braised, pulling out the excess salt, whereas pastrami is smoked, leaving the salt in?
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  • thirdeye
    thirdeye Posts: 7,428
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    Ben,

    For starters many home corned briskets are not as intense, with respect to saltiness, as commercially corned briskets. Home corning methods include a dry cure only, a brine cure, an injection cure or a combination of methods. Also many home recipes use a higher quality of ingredients, and some use sugar to knock the edge off the salt. What recipe and technique are you following? Some of the information you are reading may not apply to your method.

    Commercially corned briskets, with the exception of some custom processed briskets for delicatessens, are injected and also brined in a vat. Using both an injection and a brine corns the beef faster. The corning liquid is also stronger. This is all for economics, the producers want to get it processed in a reasonably short period of time.

    The basis for the process is a salt brine (or salty dry cure) is used as a carrier for seasonings and helps in a liquid exchange at the cellular level. It's osmosis. Once the meat is cured, a certain amount of the salt carrier does remain. A soak out reduces the saltiness, but doesn't reverse the actual curing or wash out any flavors that it carried in.

    On to your last question .... corned beef (especially the commercially corned ones) benefits from a soak out before braising it for your corn beef and cabbage dinner. I suppose that the braising will dilute the saltiness to some degree, but once that liquid gets warm, then hot.... the cells are closing and not allowing the osmosis to happen as naturally as it would using a cold water soak out in the fridge.

    I honestly don't know why more producers don't recommend soaking their product before cooking, nor why a great number of recipes for both corned beef and pastrami don't call for it either. I would suspect they think the consumer would be hesitant to buy if there was prep for a couple of days involved.

    The last decision is the actual soak time, and it's based on several things. 1. The brand of corned beef, or the recipe you are using for corning at home. 2. Your personal threshold for salt, and 3. Your cooking method. I soak corned beef used for pastrami longer than I soak corned beef for braising (actually I pressure cook my corned beef).
    Happy Trails
    ~thirdeye~

    Barbecue is not rocket surgery
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    alot of the butchers near me make their own, they are not very salty, the one i posted was done with mostly salt, he sneaks just a little curing agent which gives it a slight pink hue but not red like the mass produced stuff, some here just use salt. a couple hour soak is fine for pastrami, if done in a boiled dinner you just cook it. the red mass produced stuff is a salt lick, it needs a good long soak with water changes.
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Bacchus
    Bacchus Posts: 6,019
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    Just got back from RD where they are on sale at $1.89 for the "Jomar" brand, vac packed. I opted not to get one becuse the were so big, the smallest being 14lbs. The juice surrounding the meat was as red as kool-aide.
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  • hornhonk
    hornhonk Posts: 3,841
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    I'll be cooking..roasting!..corned beef and cabbage for 200-300 people Saturday. 5 kegs of Guinness! Rustic breads and Irish butter. A beautiful wheel of Irish cheese...etc,etc. Pics coming later, if I'm sober enough to take some. :P
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  • Boilermaker Ben
    Boilermaker Ben Posts: 1,956
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    Thanks for the great information, thirdeye.

    The two recipes I considered, when planning my corned beef, were Ruhlman's (from Charcuterie) and Alton Brown's.

    Ruhlman's (google "ruhlman corned beef" to find the recipe) calls for a 5 day brine. For 5 lbs of brisket, the recipe is 1 gallon water, 2 cups kosher salt, 1/2 cup sugar, 2T pickling spices, 3 minced garlic cloves, 1 oz (5t) pink salt.

    Alton Brown's calls for a 10 day brine, using salt petre instead of pink salt.

    I chose Ruhlman's because it fit my time schedule, and I knew I could get pink salt from my local butcher.

    Both recipes include instructions to remove the meat from the brine, rinse it, and then braise before slicing.

    Rather than slicing, I'll be using my corned beef in Alton Brown's corned beef and cabbage recipe. (which also doesn't mention a soak).
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    i dont think you can get a grey corned beef too far from boston unless you make your own. you really want to soak those red ones and make sure whatever you rub it with is salt free or very light with salt as the salt in the corned beef rises to the surface and concentrates there during the cook. i buy the red ones once they go on sale after the stpats day, makes a great redflannel hash with potatoes onions and some beets and turnups fried up for breakfast
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    dont forget to start the day with some irish whiskey in your cofee B)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • thirdeye
    thirdeye Posts: 7,428
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    I have Charcuterie too. Great book. Being a garlic lover I may have snuck another 4 or 5 cloves in there. :laugh:

    I see no soak mentioned. Speaking of the soaking, take a look at the Maple Bacon recipe it doesn't mention soaking either. I guess he doesn't subscribe to the philosophy, but an awful lot of the home made bacon folks soak theirs. I even soak out my Buckboard, and the salts and nitrates are in a lower concentration in that cure.

    Boy, I bet Alton really went to the back of the cupboard to find saltpetre. Hehehee. It's been out of fashion for years.
    Happy Trails
    ~thirdeye~

    Barbecue is not rocket surgery
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  • hornhonk
    hornhonk Posts: 3,841
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    Will do, Fish! ;)
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  • thirdeye
    thirdeye Posts: 7,428
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    DSC09818a.jpg

    I guess this one puts the R in red corned beef. Hehee.


    DSC09820a.jpg
    Happy Trails
    ~thirdeye~

    Barbecue is not rocket surgery
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    i ate alot of corned beef growing up and never seen that red stuff til i was in my twenties :laugh: im pretty sure the guy near me does it the old fashioned dry salt cure in barrels.
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Boilermaker Ben
    Boilermaker Ben Posts: 1,956
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    From reading the transcript of the episode (fun fact: www.goodeatsfanpage.com has the transcript to every episode, and links to the youtube videos of each, as well), he went to the pharmacy. B)
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  • Serial Griller
    Serial Griller Posts: 1,186
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    Another Question...I saw about a 4-1/2 lb packaged corned beef at Sprouts.
    I was looking at Thirdeyes recipes.I want corn beef for St.Patty's day but also want pastrami. Since it's just the two of us.Would you just make pastrami and forget the corn beef?Can't split a 4-lb brisket can you?
    Would you rather have 4-lbs of corn beef or pastrami.
    I've smoked plenty of briskets but not corn beef or pastrami.
    Thanks in advance
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    they are cheap, go get another one or wait til they drop to a buck a pound a week or so after the holiday. heres my favorite way, breakfast with eggs, fried crispy
    http://www.dianaskitchen.com/page/meats/hash.htm
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • hornhonk
    hornhonk Posts: 3,841
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    Whoever heard of pastrami and cabbage on St. Pats' day? Maybe on a Jewish holiday... :S
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    c8d8fbfd.jpg
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    i wouldnt even egg the corned beef, egg some guinness bread instead ;)

    2004_0229_162424.jpg
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Boilermaker Ben
    Boilermaker Ben Posts: 1,956
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    egg some guinness bread instead

    Isn't "guinness bread" essentially redundant?
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  • hornhonk
    hornhonk Posts: 3,841
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    Hey, Fish, that looks great, no!, better than great! :P
    How many rings are left on the glass when your pint is empty? :laugh:
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,776
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    B) 6, someone was really thinking when they designed the imperial pints with 20 ounces instead of the traditional 16 :) theres 101 imperial pints in a keg, ive tested that out myself several times :laugh:
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Bacchus
    Bacchus Posts: 6,019
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    Thanks for the link Ben, big AB fan here.
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  • Boilermaker Ben
    Boilermaker Ben Posts: 1,956
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    no problem. That fansite rocks. Beware, though: the links to the recipes link to the FN website, which (at least last time I looked) is REALLY slow. I generally head into the episodes' transcripts to get the recipes, so I can avoid the FN site.
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