Strange brisket cook

BucsFanJim · April 2004

I cooked a brisket on my large egg and I am STUMPED! The results were underwhelming and I'm in need of answers if anyone can help. The brisket was done in 6 hours and too tender...it was falling apart.
I like my brisket sliced and with a nice smoke ring.
O.K. This was my FIRST brisket on the BGE, I have done several others on my offset with decent success.

The brisket was 11 lbs. whole cryovac (select)
I injected the brisket with a beef broth and apple juice reduction then applied a dry rub as well.
The grill was set up with the standard grid over inverted plate setter, no drip pan.
The dome temp was steady throughout the cook at 230* on a calibrated gauge.
After 3 hours it hit 155* internal and I foiled it and put it back on.
It hit 195* 3 hours later. [p]I just can't figure out why it came out that way. Briskets on my offset take NO LESS than 10 hours and are sliceable. [p]Here are my guesses...
#1 Select grade of meat.
#2 the little bit of ascorbic acid in the juice may have tenderized the meat too much. It went on the cooker almost immediately after being injected.
#3 the dome temp was 10* or so too high?[p]Help anyone?
Thanks.[p]

mollyshark · April 2004

BucsFanJim,[p]I can't imagine an 11 lb brisket hitting 195 in that short of time. When mine does something like that, I always remove the probe and stick it in another couple places. I may have just hit a hot pocket or it is further in than I thought, almost touching the grid on the other end. That is way too quick. 230 shouldn't be a problem. I usually hit dome of about 225 or so and I haven't found that 5 degrees one way or the other makes THAT much of a diff. I've never injected one before, so maybe someone can shed light on that. As far as select, the last couple I've done have been select with no appreciable diff in cooking time and have been fabulous. I've never foiled either until after it is done, so can't comment there.[p]Will ponder.[p]mShark

Lawn Ranger · April 2004

BucsFanJim,[p]That's pretty quick cookin'! You might want to check your dome thermometer. I had one become miscalibrated once...it can sure throw things off. However, that's just a guess. Bet it was good for chopped beef sandwiches, though.[p]Mike

BucsFanJim · April 2004

Lawn Ranger,
Yeah... have plenty for sandwiches, and I saved some for ABT's. The only thing I can think of is my dome gauge went wacky during the time it was coming up to temp. I'll check that.
BTW... those are some nice handles. I'll be getting in touch with you one one if you don't mind. [p]Thanks,

BucsFanJim · April 2004

mollyshark,
Thanks for pondering! I'll have to try not foiling. I got into the foil habit on my offset.

Brett · April 2004

BucsFanJim,
Well, the foil will speed things up a good bit, but not that much. I vote for the miscalibrated dome thermometer theory as the primary culprit. In my experience select cuts take longer, not less time. Check it in boiling wather and see how close to 212 degrees it comes.[p]Brett

Char-Woody · April 2004

BucsFanJim, never ever foil a brisket until its finished at the 190 degree area. Then its o.k. to foil, wrap in towels, and stick in a cooler chest for a short period of time. What you did was steam cooked it in foil and thus the mush...Thats o.k. with a beef roast, but not with a brisket if you really want a top smoked low and slow type cook.
Sorry folks but sometimes you really need to get back on track over here.
C~W[p]

Char-Woody · April 2004

BucsFanJim, never ever foil a brisket until its finished at the 190 degree area. Then its o.k. to foil, wrap in towels, and stick in a cooler chest for a short period of time. What you did was steam cooked it in foil and thus the mush...Thats o.k. with a beef roast, but not with a brisket if you really want a top smoked low and slow type cook.
Sorry folks but sometimes you really need to get back on track over here.
C~W[p]

WooDoggies · April 2004

Char-Woody,[p]Though BucsFan may have foiled his brisket a bit long, I disagree to flatly state to never foil.
There are instances when it's called for and there are many bbqr's who will always foil for a time before their brisket is finished.... and with excellent results. [p]I don't think it's a matter of staying on track over here or sticking to any one formula.... it's a matter of what works for you.[p]John

GrillMeister · April 2004

BucsFanJim,[p]As others have stated, don't foil till the end of the cook. My brisket last weekend went 14 hours with a 45 minute rest in foil before slicing for the judging. I also used a place setter with a drip pan and the BBQ Guru kept the dome temp at 200 till I turned it up to 225 for the last couple of hours.[p]Beers,[p]Ed

BucsFanJim · April 2004

Char-Woody,
Wasn't intentionally trying to get off "track". Like I said I was looking for answers, and had foiled briskets before on an offset with success... just never cooked them that quick. I'll try without foil on my next Egg-brisket cook.[p]Thanks,

BucsFanJim · April 2004

GrillMeister,
Thanks for the info.

Char-Woody · April 2004

WooDoggies,
Maybe one needs to know just when to hold em, and when to fold em.
Like you say, wrap em up in foil and forget the low and slow methods with fat side up, self basting.
On track, off track, whatever!
C~W[p]

WooDoggies · April 2004

Char-Woody,[p]?[p]Fred, you're reading things...... where did I state, "wrap em up in foil and forget the low and slow methods "?[p]However, I will agree with you when you say...... whatever.[p]John[p]

bbqbeth · April 2004

WooDoggies,[p]Just the same old CW.

Char-Woody · April 2004

I guess I am really not sure what part of my post your have a hissy fit over, but if you feel you need to foil wrap a brisket prior to the end, then maybe you can fill me and other in on what the benefits are. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, and maybe I should have refrained from any comment. If the "on track" comment tossed a brick through your window, that was meant for all the posts I have read where good BBQ methods have been strained to the limits.
Getting back on track can be a good thing.
Cheers and beers...PBR ??
C~W

BBQfan1 · April 2004

Char-Woody,
Hey CW, there's certainly nothing wrong with two top-shelf ceramic chefs coming at a bbq question from two seperate directions. The list as a whole is the beneficiary of the point/counter-point exchange.
Personally speaking, I think that the pro-wrappers come from the competition mindset, where tenderness is a major component of the brisket turn-in. The pulling and wrapping allows time for the juices to redistribute through the brisket roast (and a brisket IS a beef roast at heart, and I don't think anyone would debate resting a big roast for best results). Probably nothing more or less... wrapping in foil, especially with additional moisture such as beef broth or au jus, is going to raise the moisture component of the cook. A brisket, for all its connective tissue and muscle fibre isn't heavy on marbling, so it doesn't get the 'self-basting' that an equivalent pork shoulder roast would. The addition of broth and foil, and, yes, steaming effect as you call it, makes up for the moisture loss in the connective tissue rendering where fat is minimal.
Great to see you posting here and not all contrary opinions have to be expressed in an aggressive or confrontational manner. I think WD is one of the more diplomatic and complimentary folks you'll ever butt heads with; a true southern gentleman IMHO. If you take issue with his (or my) thoughts, carry on and express them freely. I know WD will reply in a thoughtful and respectful manner.
Speaking for myself, I look forward to seeing this thread followed through to an informative and amicable end,.....
Qfan

Char-Woody · April 2004

BBQfan1, touche....
I need to quell my enthusiasm since I seem to be attracting some added horse flies to the pile. I have great respect for both you and Woodoggies, and regret there may have been some saddle sores created.
Good post BTW, and on target. Depends a lot on what your striving for at the end. I have yet to inject a brisket, so maybe I am missing something. Seems to me with injecting, foiling would be counter productive to a nicely crusted exterior, yet tender internal.
Maybe BBQ Beth has some really great BBQ news for us all. She is quick to serve up her portions expert opinion's.
Cheers..happy Q ya all
C~W[p]

bbqbeth · April 2004

Char-Woody,
huh? "portions expert opinions"?
sorry charlie, you're lost.............

JSlot · April 2004

And thank goodness he is the same ol' CW!!![p]Frosty Ones!
Jim

WooDoggies · April 2004

Char-Woody,[p]Holey frijoles, CW, hissy fit? Wow![p]Plainly put, I disagree with the "never ever" stance..... in my experience, there are hardly absolutes in anything. To me cooking is as fluid as any creative medium..... and when folks start saying to never do it a certain way then it starts to stifle the process.
So, to tell others who have had success with foiling that they should never foil.... or the forum "you really need to get back on track over here", comes off as, well, a bit know-it-all ish and stifling. [p]And because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I foil, feel the need to foil, know the correct way to foil, will ever foil or disregard the low and slow method .......... it just means I disagree with you.[p]It's nearly beer thirty but I'm gonna crack a cold PBR anyway, face the corn belt and drink to you, CW.[p]John[p]

WooDoggies · April 2004

BBQfan1,[p]I've eaten some very good briskets that were foiled prior to pulling off the cooker and if I hadn't been told they'd been foiled then I'd never have guessed. Good flavor, bark and texture.
One brisket in particular won a top three ribbon at a comp we both attended a while back.
I don't see anything wrong with it anymore than I see wrapping ribs..... it all comes down to individual tastes.[p]Southern gentleman....... you sure you got the right WD? LOL[p]Beers!
John[p]

Char-Woody · April 2004

WooDoggies,
Clink.....!
It's my day for a poor choice of words and lousy interpretation of intent. Of course, folks can do as they like, and one of my own contentions is that nothing is ever set in cement. If foiling anything improves it, then thats constructive.
I think my over reaction goes way back to the time we did this with a Boston Butt. Contention then was, can you do one faster using foil. Of course. I did a trial run, and it was a 5 hour cook on about a 8 lb. boston butt.
ery tender and pullable. Excellent, but it would (IMO) never matched a full long low and slow cook. I think BOB (Bob Knowles) then known as SmokinBob would remember that one. [p]Salutes...!
C~W

James · April 2004

BBQBeth,[p]At the risk of wading into something I don't want to be in..[p]I saw your higher post and wondered what you were talking about. Now that I've read the whole thread, It looks like a typo to me. I'm not sure how you got pulled into the thread, but even so. It's not like he insulted you. At least not that I could tell.[p]Also, how do these wierd things flare up? It must be a combination of emotions not conveying well over the internet, beer, and an occasional poor choice of words and/or typos..[p]It's BBQ. [p]sometimes this stuff get blown all out of proportion.[p]
Oh yeah.. I almost forgot.. Whatever... :-)[p][p]

Cornfed · April 2004

WooDoggies,[p]Foiling a brisket is about as crazy as baking a bean pie on the Egg [p]Just kidding. I have close to zero brisket experience, having only assisted in cooking them in the past. So, I have no idea whether or not foiling is a good idea. In a couple of weeks, hopefully I'll get to see how some of you folks do them. Maybe we can even talk bean pies![p]Later,
Cornfed

Strange brisket cook

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