Danger zone questions

jwitheld · April 2004

after reading Old Daves post about 4 hrs max 40 to 140 makes me ask questions.
does this include a smoke (preservative) atmosphere?
what about jerky, that takes more than 4 hrs.
how does a thorough cook effect this, bring internal up to 200 as in pulled pork?

The Naked Whiz · April 2004

jwitheld,
Jerkey is thin, so I'd imagine it gets to 140 pretty dang quick. As for pork butts, the inside of a cut of meat should be sterile. Obviously your thermometer probe or any cuts into the meat can introduce bacteria, but this must not be a problem or we'd all be dead. I would be surprised if the probe doesn't conduct enough heat into the meat so that the tissue around the probe gets up to 140 pretty quickly also.[p]TNW

Char-Woody · April 2004

The Naked Whiz, better yet, good jerky cure has a high salt content, which in itself is bacteria retardant. And thin helps to retract the moisture quickly. The enemy as per Daves posting is not really the bacteria, but the unresolved "toxins" that stay behind and do the body torture to humans.
Dave is correct, and I might also add that Dave, for good reasons, is very strict with his kitchen expertise. Even more so than Old Char-Woody.
There was a program last night on Autistic children, and the rapid rise in the rates that this is occuring. I am going to put a bet on the diets of the parents, and the amounts of food toxins affecting the geneticss and prenatal care of the mother.
Even salads, the lettuce, and these premixed salad bundles you pick up at the G'stores have a high incidence of contaminants.
For StumpBaby, we are all doomed!....BBQ on!!...Cheers.
C~W[p]

fishlessman · April 2004

Char-Woody, the salt in the rub and in the mustard must also extend that 4 hour period to some degree on a pork butt. also, after watching the meat temp rise in the first few hours, the ones ive cooked dont get to 140F in the first 4 hours unless i start the cook at an elevated temp and then lower it when im out of that danger zone.

TRex · April 2004

jwitheld,[p]That's exactly my question: if something grows during the "danger zone," don't you kill it if you take the meat to 200 degrees?[p]Still wondering if I should eat this pork butt . . .[p]TRex

The Naked Whiz · April 2004

Char-Woody,
The enemy is actually both bacteria and toxins produced by some bacteria. [p]TNW

Char-Woody · April 2004

fishlessman, its the exterior we need to keep an eye on. This is where the origins of problem's arise in the "temperature danger zone" Old Dave is referencing. The vinegars in the mustard (IMO) are also a anti bacteria agent to a degree. Stay safe..I would rather pitch a suspect cook than to risk big bucks in hospital and mortician expenses. Oooooooh!
Big thing is, get the cooker to above 160 F..before your insert your meats. Keep meats refrigerated with short term exposure to room temps before cooking.
Slicing and poking into the interiors, give rise to then insertions of bacteria, and the slower internal temperature rise increases the chance of build up of toxins, the waste material of bacteria
Maybe a good reason not to put temperature probes in meats until the meats internal temps have a chance to rise to a safer level. Just my own opinion not a "experts" advice.
C~W[p]

fishlessman · April 2004

Char-Woody, the interior of the meat, if it has been deboned, could have been exposed, and this is why i try to bring the internal meat temp up to 140 within the 4 hour period. with a bone in pork butt i am less concerned with internal temp during the cook

Unknown · April 2004

fishlessman,
Good idea...! Hows fishing?
C~W

Chef Wil · April 2004

jwitheld,
heres my view on cooking meat safely, especially pull pork and brisket. Get the egg stable at 325°. Wipe stem of thermometer with alcahol to sterilize it and insert in meat. Bring internal meat temp to 160°. Then lower egg temp to 200 or 225 and continue cooking to an internal of 195 or desired doneness to your satisfaction. You are limiting the growth of bacteria and toxins in a much quicker way and staying below the 4 hour mark, once you surpass the 160° line, your pretty much safe to do whatever you wanted to do as long as your temp doesn't drop below 140°. HTH.

TRex · April 2004

Chef Wil,[p]Why doesn't the bacteria die again when you get up to high internal temps like 200 degrees?[p]TRex

Chef Wil · April 2004

TRex,
be more specific with your question, I don't follow you on the "die again". Bacteria does die off but the toxins are still prevelent and the spores are what generate more toxins and bacteria.

David · April 2004

TRex,
Bacteria is everywhere, on our hands, that clean knife and counter, packaging the meat came in, etc. Some bacteria is harmful, some does nothing, others are beneficial to our digestive tract. Bacterial is like any living thing, it takes in food from the environment uses that to live on then expels the waste. This waste is what people are calling the toxins. Our bodies don't like us to injest bacteria crap. A small amount of bacteria or toxin does not hurt a normal healthy person, large quanities can kill us. The danger zone of 40 to 140 is bacteria nervana, at this temperature they get their freak on an a few bacteria can multiply to millions. When you get millions of bacteria crapping on your food you got a problem. When the temp gets over 140 the bacteria starts to die off but all that bacteria crap is still there. The temperature has no effect on the bacteria crap, its deadly now matter how much you cook it. If you freeze it that crap is still there, when you thaw it and reheat it you got it its still there. Be safe, keep bacteria crap off your food, stay out of the danger zone.

CrazyDavey · February 2009

That's what I thought but I guess what I am reading by several posts is that I should only be concerned about the surface temp of the meat, not the internal temp which was 122 when I woke up.

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