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*RIB BATTLE* Low and slow vs 3-1-1
bubba tim
Posts: 3,216
OK, I admit that I am a little old school on a lot of things. I have been doing low and slow method of ribs for well over 20 years. That's all I knew until I came on this forum and watch the dvd that came with the new mini. On this forum and on the dvd, Eggheads were cooking ribs in 3 to 4 hours! What the heck have I been doing that it takes me 7 to 8 hours? I just had to find out. Maybe it was the temprature. Maybe they marinated the ribs. I had to know!
So let us lay the ground work. I had 5 real chefs come over for some cocktails and asked them to blind judge. First "My" definition of low and slow is indirect at 220 until the internal temp is at 190. No foil and I smoke them for the first 3 hours only.
3-1-1 from my understanding is 3 hours indirect at 225 - 250 then you take the ribs and wrap them in foil put them back on the egg for 1 hour. After 1 hour, remove from foil and finish indirect or direct for 1 hour. Hence 3-1-1.
OK so lets start:

I start with a yellow mustard> This helps the rub to stick and also helps to make a bark. The top rack is Bone Sucking Sauce Rub. The middle rack is just onion salt and granulated garlic. The bottom rack is Bad Byrons Butt Rub.

Ribs go on at 9 am. Pit temp at 230, meat temp at 85.

Left to right: Bone Sucking/Onion,garlic/Bad Byron's
At the 3 hour mark I pulled the Bad Byrons rack, cut them in two, spayed some Can-apple juice and wraped them in foil. Placed back on the egg for 1 hour. Sprayed the rest of the racks with the same juice and closed the dome and made a drink. After another hour I unwrapped the ribs in the foil. Wow they were moist and soggy, fall off the bone tender. We tried a few of the ribs and checked for texture and flavor. Tasted like boiled ribs and had a mushy feel. OK, back on the indirect heat for another hour.
Right at 2:05 I mopped on some finishing sauce on some of the ribs for that Kansas City Style and left two small 1/2 racks dry for Memphis Style. I shut down the egg for 15 minutes.

Here are the results. These two ribs were the Memphis style. The top one is low and slow and the other is 3-1-1. The low and slow is jucier and the meat is firm but very tender. It pulls away from the bone clean. The 3-1-1 rib was some what dry but very tender. The last hour seemed to firm up the meat. Notice the bone of the bottom ribs have shrunk more than a full inch. These were the 3-1-1 ribs.
These are the Kansas City style ribs.


All the chefs agreed (that's hard to do)Bone Sucking Sauce rub and low and slow is the clear winner.
Bottom line is 3-1-1 maybe faster and fall off the bone tender, but all agree that low and slow has better taste and textue.
So let us lay the ground work. I had 5 real chefs come over for some cocktails and asked them to blind judge. First "My" definition of low and slow is indirect at 220 until the internal temp is at 190. No foil and I smoke them for the first 3 hours only.
3-1-1 from my understanding is 3 hours indirect at 225 - 250 then you take the ribs and wrap them in foil put them back on the egg for 1 hour. After 1 hour, remove from foil and finish indirect or direct for 1 hour. Hence 3-1-1.
OK so lets start:

I start with a yellow mustard> This helps the rub to stick and also helps to make a bark. The top rack is Bone Sucking Sauce Rub. The middle rack is just onion salt and granulated garlic. The bottom rack is Bad Byrons Butt Rub.

Ribs go on at 9 am. Pit temp at 230, meat temp at 85.

Left to right: Bone Sucking/Onion,garlic/Bad Byron's
At the 3 hour mark I pulled the Bad Byrons rack, cut them in two, spayed some Can-apple juice and wraped them in foil. Placed back on the egg for 1 hour. Sprayed the rest of the racks with the same juice and closed the dome and made a drink. After another hour I unwrapped the ribs in the foil. Wow they were moist and soggy, fall off the bone tender. We tried a few of the ribs and checked for texture and flavor. Tasted like boiled ribs and had a mushy feel. OK, back on the indirect heat for another hour.
Right at 2:05 I mopped on some finishing sauce on some of the ribs for that Kansas City Style and left two small 1/2 racks dry for Memphis Style. I shut down the egg for 15 minutes.

Here are the results. These two ribs were the Memphis style. The top one is low and slow and the other is 3-1-1. The low and slow is jucier and the meat is firm but very tender. It pulls away from the bone clean. The 3-1-1 rib was some what dry but very tender. The last hour seemed to firm up the meat. Notice the bone of the bottom ribs have shrunk more than a full inch. These were the 3-1-1 ribs.

These are the Kansas City style ribs.


All the chefs agreed (that's hard to do)Bone Sucking Sauce rub and low and slow is the clear winner.
Bottom line is 3-1-1 maybe faster and fall off the bone tender, but all agree that low and slow has better taste and textue.
You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture!
Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
Comments
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Okks great, thanks for sharing. I also prefer ribs that aren't foiled. I think a perfecr rib should have a little pull top it, not just fall off the bone.
But I'm not sure one way is faster than the other, how long did you cook the none foiled ribs? -
I'm a little confused did you 311 half of the Bone Sucking Sauce Ribs.
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Sorry, I divided the Bad Byrons rack in half and put both halves in the foil. (so they would fit better)You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
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Good post Tim. I have 3 slabs of spares on right now and friends wife wants fall of the bone so her half slab is in foil now. Also using 3 different sauces for the finish. Raspberry chipotle, Maurice's original, and Blues hog original. Can't wait to try the blues hog, we can't get that around here. Thanks CWM. Pics later on. Thanks for that post as I was thinking about that all day.
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I pulled the non foil at 6 hours. The lesson learned as to why it was taking me so long was the dome temp was showing 225 but in reaality the grate temp was around 190. Getting the digi II cleared that up for me.You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
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Just for clarification: 3-1-1 *IS* Low 'N' Slow..
We could have told you that 220 Dome is 190 at the grate
Both sets of ribs look good though.. Good Job.. -
Rasberry Chipotle? Is that from MoHotta? If it is that stuff rocks. You can you it as a finishing sauce just use it in the last 20 minutes and cut it in half with apple juice.You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
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So the post should have been, To Foil or not to Foil, Rib are the question. :P :PYou must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
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There is an art to foiling. A lot of competitors do it. Personally, I don't foil unless I'm cooking for someone else that wants fall off the bone. Even though fall off the bone is considered overcooked. A lot of people like them that way. Foiling almost always assures of a good cook and I recommend it for the first time ribbers.

Ribs look good.
Mike -
Agree with you Mike. We tried the BH original with the trimmings and that is some good stuff. Thanks
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There you go
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It is addicting.
Mike -
wow.. you put all this together since our conversation at 6:30AM this morning??? i am impressed!! looks fantastic . and a wealth of knowlege with the head to head comparison, thank you.
batten down be safe.
bill -
i think you summed it up really well.
if i have time, i do them 7 or 8 hours. but if i don't, or if i need to 'kmnow' when they'll be done or am cooking for a group, i'll go 3-1-1.
i like the side by side idea. i'd never noticed a difference, but i never did them side by side either.
nice looking ribs, too.ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante -
I had planned this for today, just needed a few more facts. I learned a lot. Ribs aside, with 5 chefs in the same room, you get 5 egos and 5 ways of making the perfect mohito. TS Fay is of little concern for us in Miami/Hollywood. We should get some winds around 40ish and a lot of rain. The west coast from Naples to Tampa/St Pete will get hammered. Should be a Cat 1 or 2 by Tuesday. But, just in case, bought more lump and Gin.
:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP -
Great post. I was suprised that you didn't add more "moisture" to the foiled ribs. They all looked deliscious!
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I have spares on right now, trying 3-1-1 method for the first time. Actually, the first part ended up being 3 1/2 hrs. I started at noon, so the time is up, but they don't seem to be bending yet. I've been fairly steady at 235 dome. Should I turn them up to get them done? Is the 3-1-1 time only for baby backs and should I use a different formula for spares? Any advice is appreciated.
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Nice experiment, seems well controlled and executed. Got me convinced to try low and slow next time, assuming I can get my egg down to 220 (see my post soon to be up).
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Would 7 hrs @ 220 grid work on baby backs, or is that specifically for STL-style? Baby backs are a stock item around here, but STL-cuts appear to be special order. I've never actually done STL-style ribs.
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Thirdeye has a great post about SLT ribs. You can do Baby Backs either way. I like the Spare ribs because you get mare meat for less money. Check how thirdeye does his spare rib trimings. He must have been a butcher in is other life.



http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/2002/01/pork-spare-ribs-preparing.html[url][/url]You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP -
Marco, I hesitate to jump in on this thread because it contains so many of the best eggers in the forum in it, but I noticed that your question went un-answered.
I have recently stopped cooking spares, and have gone back to baby backs. While spares are usually cheaper, and tend to have a little more meat, I find that some of it results in a texture which is similar to pork chops, not like ribs. But I found, when I WAS doing them, that you can take the first "3" up to "3-1/2" or even "4" in your 3-1-1 algorithm. It all depends on temp, of course. I did them at 270* dome, and foiled to get my best results.
Now I just watch for the $1.99/lb sales of baby backs and stock up. Hope that helps.
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