Opinions wanted....Fire went out on me overnight with

Unknown · November 2006

four butts on the BGE XL. When I turned in at 12:30 am the meat was at 110 degrees after four hours on the egg. When I got up at 7 am the fire was going out and the meat at 113. The dome temp was 105, still some heat but not much.[p]Got the fire back up and going. My question is, am I okay with the meat temp being that low for that long? Seems like it's just an extra long smoke as long as I bring it up through the plateau and finish at 200 degrees. But does anyone think I've got bacteria problems?[p]FWIW, I've got my concerns about the XL. Seems like the grate is so wide that the charcoal doesn't feed in on itself like it does in the large, greatly increasing the likelihood of a dead spot, which is what happened to me this time.[p]Thanks for any input...

egret · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,
Hate to say it, but your meat never did get out of the "danger zone" (i.e., 40-140 degrees). Not worth the chance.........that's a shame this happened with such a large cook.

RRP · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,
better chalk those four up to a bad experience - I wouldn't eat it, serve it or for that matter feed it to my dogs either.

Richard · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,
egret is right. I'm sad for you. The problem is you don't know what the temp was during your black out time ie 12:30am-7:00 and the really sad thing is it might be just fine. I've often wondered if an investment in a recording temp prob would be worth the money. So instead I bought bbq guru. Much cheaper... and better. I've never had problem on over nights or days when I'm at the office while a cook is on. But I must admit that there is always a feeling of relief when I see It is ok.I've read other post where the fire went out using a GURU but I've never had that problem. I always use the Elder Ward fire building system.[p]I looked at xl bge and had some concerns but those were mainly concerning dome height and plate setter confg.[p]Wonder if a wireless prob with a low temp alarm is available.(after it goes through a set point.)

stike · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,
i'd toss it.
less worried about the interior of the meat, frankly, than the exterior.[p]salt in the rub and the harsh temps (250 or s0)of the cook, plus smoke, are all hostile to bacteria in a normal cook. any bacteria (on the exterior of the meat) are usually not an issue during a normal cook, because they can't easily survive prep, salt, spices, low O2, high-heat, and smoke. [p]but your environment has not only been around an ideal bacteria temp of 100, but there's also been just enough draft to potentially draw a lot of exterior air (new bacteria) into the cook. so any bacteria that was on the outside and killed initially could (in theory i guess) been replaced by new. the meat's perhaps been re-seeded in a way

schley · November 2006

Hate to be the dissenter here but I would keep them. Salt ( I assume you used a rub) and the smoke act as preservatives and your meat will be fine. Most of our grandparents had a smokehouse to preserve meats a long period of time. Think it ever got that hot in those? I don't. [p]If you are concerned, get your fire back going, put a little char on them and keep cooking. [p]Good luck!!

thirdeye · November 2006

schley,[p]With all due respect, there is a huge difference between barbecuing or roasting meats using wood for "smoke flavor" and "smoking" meats for preservation. They are entirely two different processes. Granted most folks use the generic term "smoking" when actually referring to flavor smoking.[p]The early smoking methods for large cuts of pork used by our great grandparents and grandparents were very different. The meat was actually "cured" using quantities of salt between 1-1/2 tablespoons and 2-1/2 tablespoons per pound of meat, the latter being a country ham. In addition, they were allowed to cure for up to 30 days (or longer for the country hams) in a cool place, like a root cellar. Smoke houses used cold smoke and the smoke time could go for months. [p]A rub, adds flavor. It will have no "curing" properties. Hot smoke, produced when barbecuing will not act as a preservative.[p]~thirdeye~

thirdeye · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,[p]I always hate to see words to the effect of "Help, my fire went out" in morning posts. We will see a lot of them during the holidays with so many new Eggers trying out their new Eggs. Pork butts are so forgiving, you can cook them upwards of 275° and I doubt that you can tell the difference in flavor, texture and moistness between one cooked at 225°. I know you get good braggin' rights when you tell your guests: "yeah, I cooked this butt lo-n-slo for 18 hours", but if you don't have good fire control it's tough to do. Practice your first 8 or 10 overnight butt cooks using higher temps. It gives you a much better margin of error. Once you have mastered overnighters you can play with lower temps for your butts. [p]~thirdeye~[p]PS Most of the time other folks will wind up doing the bragging for you anyway once they taste your barbecue. Bragging is twice a sweet when it comes from someone else's lips.

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2006

thirdeye,
great points!! ....one of the things you have to find out about your cooker, is what temps it likes to be at for extended period. . .one of my larges likes to sit at 250 on the nose for extended periods. .. but my other one just doesn't like that temp for some reason. ..it is much happier around 275 or so. ..[p]ray lampe (aka drbbq) talks about his phenomenon in his first book, and he says that rather than try to force your cooker to do something it just doesn't want to do, just go with the temps its happier at and adjust cooking times accordingly. . .it really does work. .. and you are right, a butt cooked at 275 is just as good as a butt cooked at 250 if its pulled at the right time. . ..

Unknown · November 2006

Thanks for all your (and Third Eye's) good points. I have had many successful 18+ hour cooks on the large, but the XL is the devil. I don't have much desire to keep practicing with it -- I think I'll just stick with the large. I tossed my butts and have started over with two new ones.

The Virginian · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,
The XL cooks a little differently, but it has been a fine cooker for me. I would suggest doing an all day cook and monitor the temperatures,making adjustments until you find the low temp that it can sustain. Without a guru, temps of 235 and over are very sustainable in my XL. [p]The other thing you want to watch for when cooking 4 butts is the grease. If you get grease dripping into the lump, when that lump catches you will have a much hotter fire on one side that the other, causing problems. Use a pan with wather to catch the drippings when cooking that many butts. [p]Brett

Celtic Wolf · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,[p] When I first got my XL I set it the way everybody else here said they set their large eggs. I soon discovered that made my XL run a bit colder. I have since adjusted based on my own observations of my XL.[p] Right now my XL is sitting at 252 and holding. As soon as the smoke clears the ribs will in there. The temp will drop some because of the coolness of the ribs, but have faith in your egg. It will soon be back up to temp. Resist adjusting the temp at this point.[p] One other thing I do is light my egg in for spots 90 degs to eat other. The XL is a meat cooking machine.

Unknown · November 2006

> Wonder if a wireless prob with a low temp alarm is
> available.(after it goes through a set point.) [p]grs,[p]Yes. The Maverick ET-73.

Richard · November 2006

Michael B,
Thanks. Do you use one.

BOBF · November 2006

grs,[p]I have had a XL for about a year and that is all I am familiar with. I have done a number or 16 - 18 hour cooks and had plenty of charcoal left at the end to have gone for 20+. I have lost two fires in this time - 1) The first because I used a fast burning lump and did not put enough charcoal in for 7+ hours at 350F and 2) On the second I got in a hurry and didn't let it stabilize properly and closed the vents down too soon and too far. I have read a lot of hints on this forum and now when I do a long cook, I clean out the egg first, stack lump to the top of the firebox adding the large pieces first, use a good quality slow burning lump and light the fire in at least four (4) places - one in each quadrant of the lump. As far as the Maverick ET 73, I have one and use it a lot. The distance from my egg to my kitchen window is about 60 - 70 feet and that seems to be near the max range. I am still very much a new guy but I think you will master the XL. I am sure I will have some initial frustrations when I add a large.

schley · November 2006

thirdeye,
You write like you are knowledgeable about this so I will somewhat defer to you..But.. do you really think his butts were a total loss, or is everyone just being overly cautious? I can say I have done the same thing manty times and the only thing that happened was I got fatter.[p]It would seem to me for the amount of time we are talking about, if there were any bacteria growth it would be minute and only outside the meat. By firing up again can't you assume if there were any it would be killed?[p]Just mt 2 cents....[p]

Unknown · November 2006

grs,
Hey guy, I hate to seem stupid, but please tell me what you mean by GURU. I love grilling, smoking, etc and my family is considering buying an XL Big Green Egg for me for Christmas- it is supposed to be a surprise In any event, any input you can give would be most appreciated

thirdeye · November 2006

schley,[p]I really like to stay out of the food safety questions that usually debate the time that products have been in the 40° to 140° "danger zone". When giving opinions on an open forum, I do tend to be cautious because so many variables are involved. However, in this case Bob reported a maximum product temp of 113° during a 10 hour period, which to me is not even close to a borderline situation. [p]I replied to your post only because you implied that a rub and some hot smoking would be acting as a "preservative", and I respectfully believe that is incorrect. My intent was only to point out that a rub combined with some wood chunks to deliver hot smoke, act as a delivery device for flavor and really have no preserving action.[p]~thirdeye~

Unknown · November 2006

thirdeye,[p]I appreciate your input. I trashed the butts and started over. Not worth the risk when you're prepping a tailgate for 20+ people![p]One question -- do you not find that cooking at higher temps (250-275) sends the meat through the plateau too fast? I have found it difficult to hold the meat in the ideal range when cooking at this temp.[p]Thanks,[p]BB

thirdeye · November 2006

Bulldog Bob,[p]Well, they sure go through it faster than if you were cooking at 225°. Butts are so forgiving they are a great candidate for experimenting. But I can't say if it goes through the plateau too fast. I am from the old school of barbecue, so I understand the importance of time and temperature during the conversions that happen during the plateau.[p]That being said, when conditions outside my control require me to speed up a butt cook, my first option is to ramp up the pit temp once the butt breaks out of the plateau. My second option is to foil the butt at 160° internal and keep the pit temp the same. If that option will not deliver the butt to the table quick enough, I foil at 160° and ramp up the pit temp. Some people swear by starting off hot and once the internal passes 140°, they ramp the pit down for the plateau.[p]Looking outside the box, there is a lot of talk about "fast track" cooking of ribs, butts and brisket. A brisket is no where as forgiving as a butt and this year I've been one of the ones playing with a "fast track" brisket technique. I'm on my 7th field test cook so don't have enough information to share yet, but speaking from a briskateer point of view....the results are wild.[p]~thirdeye~

ronbeaux · November 2006

thirdeye,
Drop some hints, I'm all ears. I got a nice brisket in the fridge for the weekend. Maybe I can add to the experiment???

schley · November 2006

thirdeye,
I did not mean anything negative, sorry if it came out that way.
It seems I am the only one with this opinion and I am not that sure of it anyway.... I think I am wrong, I hate it when that happens...[p]Have a great TG weekend!!!![p]

thirdeye · November 2006

schley,[p]Heck man, I didn't feel there was negativity on either side of our conversation. Exchanging information, sharing what we know and asking questions is what makes this forum so comfortable.[p]~thirdeye~

Unknown · November 2006

> By firing up again can't you assume if there were
> any it would be killed?[p]The stuff left behind by the dead bacteria is worse than the bacteria itself. Were it otherwise, road kill stew might make an interesting main dish.

Opinions wanted....Fire went out on me overnight with

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