Sous Vide Brisket Size Question

cssmd27 · October 2017

First, there's no way to fit a whole packer in my vacuum sealer. So, I'm considering separating the point from the flat prior to cooking.

Does anyone have advice for doing that with the raw meat and then subsequently how to cook it later as separate pieces?

Photo Egg · October 2017

Check your local store for 2-gallon ziplock bags.
You do not HAVE to use use a food sealer to Sous Vide. But you do have to handle the bags a little more carefully.

https://www.amazon.com/Ziploc-2-Gallon-Freezer-Bags-Count/dp/B01FXMD402/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1506980571&sr=8-2&keywords=2-gallon+ziplock+bags

cssmd27 · October 2017

Photo Egg - Thanks, but I have a chamber sealer with the largest bags that can plausibly fit.

I've been doing some internet searching and have found some resources, but was hoping to get some real life experience with separating the point from the flat. The SV portion of the cook is fine. It won't matter. It's the smoking on the Egg after the SV cook that has me a little perplexed.

whldch · October 2017

I followed the Chef Steps app for my Joule a few weeks ago. I cut the packer in half lengthwise and did not separate the point till after the cook. So I have 5-6 pounds in 2 large bags, cooked for 24 hours. I finished the brisket on the egg without smoke instead of in the oven as directed (3 hours at about 325 degrees). I separated the point for slicing. It was delicious, what I would change is trying to incorporate smoke after the SV cook rather than with the liquid smoke that was in the sealed bags and paste. I'm not sure adding smoke in the egg would have helped that much since the smoke adheres best when the meat is cold. I do believe the half I cooked with the point was more more tender, probably from the fat content melting down into the flat. My 18 guests pretty much said it may have been the best brisket they ever had.

bgebrent · October 2017

whldch said:

I followed the Chef Steps app for my Joule a few weeks ago. I cut the packer in half lengthwise and did not separate the point till after the cook. So I have 5-6 pounds in 2 large bags, cooked for 24 hours. I finished the brisket on the egg without smoke instead of in the oven as directed (3 hours at about 325 degrees). I separated the point for slicing. It was delicious, what I would change is trying to incorporate smoke after the SV cook rather than with the liquid smoke that was in the sealed bags and paste. I'm not sure adding smoke in the egg would have helped that much since the smoke adheres best when the meat is cold. I do believe the half I cooked with the point was more more tender, probably from the fat content melting down into the flat. My 18 guests pretty much said it may have been the best brisket they ever had.

I've not SV'd brisket but this makes a lot of sense. Following.

cssmd27 · October 2017

whldch said:

.... I'm not sure adding smoke in the egg would have helped that much since the smoke adheres best when the meat is cold. .....

You know, I'm wondering if this dogma that most of us accept is factual? How would you go about testing the opposite theory? What constitutes "not cold" vs. cold? Room temp? Or all the way up to your SV temp throughout? Or something in between? Cold meat obviously can stay on the smoke longer than fully cooked (SV) meat longer. A lot of suggestions on the net say to chill the meat a bit after SV before putting it on the smoker. I'm going to try that.

My plan at the moment is to pull it from the SV, put in the fridge for 30-60 minutes, then onto the Egg with lots of smoke at low temps for 3+ hours if it can take it. My theory is that the brisket is fully cooked and ready to eat after coming out of the SV. The tenderness should already be established, so the Egg smoking is not adding anything to the cooking process, just adding flavor via the smoke.

I've also considered just doing a brisket in the SV with no oven or Egg portion for a more roast beef type of meal. Vietnamese dishes use brisket with this concept sometimes.

johnnyp · October 2017

I'm not an expert, but I've SV'd a couple brisket flats and they've turned out great. They take a long time, but minimal effort.

The recipe I've typcially used was 140F @ 72 hrs. bagged with a little salt. Then Liberal rub application and smoke for 2-3 hours.

The first time I made it, I intended to go for 36 hrs. I was a moron and thought "36 hours.....3 days". So the second time I just rolled with 3 days and it wasn't until after that I thought "wait a minute....I'm a dumb@ss". Regardless, It rocked. both times.

I've tried to do a 24 hr SV brisket and it wasn't anywhere near as good. I'll use the ridiculously long time moving forward.

First attempt:

Second Attempt:

Photo Egg · October 2017

johnnyp said:

I'm not an expert, but I've SV'd a couple brisket flats and they've turned out great. They take a long time, but minimal effort.
The recipe I've typcially used was 140F @ 72 hrs. bagged with a little salt. Then Liberal rub application and smoke for 2-3 hours.
The first time I made it, I intended to go for 36 hrs. I was a moron and thought "36 hours.....3 days". So the second time I just rolled with 3 days and it wasn't until after that I thought "wait a minute....I'm a dumb@ss". Regardless, It rocked. both times.

I've tried to do a 24 hr SV brisket and it wasn't anywhere near as good. I'll use the ridiculously long time moving forward.

First attempt:

Second Attempt:

2nd brisket looks stellar! Did you have any Egg time after the SV?

johnnyp · October 2017

2-3 hours in heavy oak smoke.

Photo Egg · October 2017

johnnyp said:

2-3 hours in heavy oak smoke.

Sorry, my fault, misread your post. Thank you
Just assumed your 2-3 smoke was pre-SV as I flashed through your post.

whldch · October 2017

cssmd27 said:

whldch said:

.... I'm not sure adding smoke in the egg would have helped that much since the smoke adheres best when the meat is cold. .....

You know, I'm wondering if this dogma that most of us accept is factual? How would you go about testing the opposite theory? What constitutes "not cold" vs. cold? Room temp? Or all the way up to your SV temp throughout? Or something in between? Cold meat obviously can stay on the smoke longer than fully cooked (SV) meat longer. A lot of suggestions on the net say to chill the meat a bit after SV before putting it on the smoker. I'm going to try that.

My plan at the moment is to pull it from the SV, put in the fridge for 30-60 minutes, then onto the Egg with lots of smoke at low temps for 3+ hours if it can take it. My theory is that the brisket is fully cooked and ready to eat after coming out of the SV. The tenderness should already be established, so the Egg smoking is not adding anything to the cooking process, just adding flavor via the smoke.

I've also considered just doing a brisket in the SV with no oven or Egg portion for a more roast beef type of meal. Vietnamese dishes use brisket with this concept sometimes.

I agree with a lot of what you write, and wish I had the time to experiment with all the options. But when I'm cooking for a large group like I did for this brisket I relied on those who test so many options and made heir conclusions. For example check out Kenji's Food Lab article where he shows and describes his sv brisket at all combinations of temps and times. It's really interesting. Chef steps tries all different options and I think tweaks their recipes as their tests evolve. Of course nobody claims to have all the answers to everyone's tastes.

Also, brisket cooked at 155 will have an internal temp of 155. If you believe that's the optimal temp for brisket then don't cook it beyond. I put my brisket in my egg for a little over 3 hours till it hit the magic 203. Not coincidentally the bark looked perfect right about that time.

cssmd27 · October 2017

whldch said:

cssmd27 said:

whldch said:

.... I'm not sure adding smoke in the egg would have helped that much since the smoke adheres best when the meat is cold. .....

You know, I'm wondering if this dogma that most of us accept is factual? How would you go about testing the opposite theory? What constitutes "not cold" vs. cold? Room temp? Or all the way up to your SV temp throughout? Or something in between? Cold meat obviously can stay on the smoke longer than fully cooked (SV) meat longer. A lot of suggestions on the net say to chill the meat a bit after SV before putting it on the smoker. I'm going to try that.

My plan at the moment is to pull it from the SV, put in the fridge for 30-60 minutes, then onto the Egg with lots of smoke at low temps for 3+ hours if it can take it. My theory is that the brisket is fully cooked and ready to eat after coming out of the SV. The tenderness should already be established, so the Egg smoking is not adding anything to the cooking process, just adding flavor via the smoke.

I've also considered just doing a brisket in the SV with no oven or Egg portion for a more roast beef type of meal. Vietnamese dishes use brisket with this concept sometimes.

I agree with a lot of what you write, and wish I had the time to experiment with all the options. But when I'm cooking for a large group like I did for this brisket I relied on those who test so many options and made heir conclusions. For example check out Kenji's Food Lab article where he shows and describes his sv brisket at all combinations of temps and times. It's really interesting. Chef steps tries all different options and I think tweaks their recipes as their tests evolve. Of course nobody claims to have all the answers to everyone's tastes.

Also, brisket cooked at 155 will have an internal temp of 155. If you believe that's the optimal temp for brisket then don't cook it beyond. I put my brisket in my egg for a little over 3 hours till it hit the magic 203. Not coincidentally the bark looked perfect right about that time.

whldch - Just in case, I hope you don't think my comments/thoughts were directed in any way negatively toward you or your brisket cook. I was just pontificating and questioning the status quo that I also have accepted. You already have a world more experience than I with this. Most of my plans were at least roughly based on the Food Lab experiments.

I do feel confident is saying that brisket at 155 for essentially 36 hours (maybe 34-35 because it will take a while for the internal temp to get there) is a vastly different animal than a traditionally cooked brisket rising to an eventual temp around 200. 155 for an extended period should render everything tender. My opinion is that the smoking period on the Egg is simply how much the brisket can take before it dries out. I won't care about the temp on the low side, but I'll probably pull in the 190 range. It's a race of how much smoke flavor you can add before drying it out. At least that's my opinion, having not done it yet.

whldch · October 2017

Not at all, CSSMD27, I think we've ponticated the same way at times. That's the cool part of Hesse forums we're all better off sharing!

Carolina Q · October 2017

Meat will take on smoke as long as there is meat and smoke. The smoke RING is what forms when the meat is below 140°

cssmd27 · October 2017

I have a question on the use of curing salt to create an artificial smoke ring. I get that it does improve the flavor and is just cosmetic and if I was making this just for myself, I wouldn't even consider it. But, the SV technique tends to minimize or eliminate it and I would like to have a bit for presentation to guests.

The question is, can I add the curing salt to the brisket after the SV cook, just before it goes on the Egg? Will it still be effective? I'm inclined to think that's really the proper time to add it, otherwise an extended cook time with it in the bag might have it end up as more pastrami like instead of a "smoke ring".

cssmd27 · October 2017

A little follow up.

First, no pics, so sorry about that. You can quit reading if you need them. It was a busy time and I didn't think about them when serving.

Here's the gist of what I did. I trimmed the brisket aggressively. I split the point from the flat, but in the end, it was essentially cutting the packer in half. Heavy salt and pepper application and into the bags and vacuum sealed in my chamber sealer, then back in the fridge for about 3 days. Then, I essentially SV'd for about 40 hours at 145, then opened the bags and drained (saved) the juices. I put the two pieces on a pan wrapped in Saran Wrap and into the fridge for 3 hours. Put them on the egg in a two level set up with the point on top for 4 hours with heavy smoke at 250ish. I let it drift up (intentionally) close to 300 for the final hour. Pulled and cut within 30 minutes.

Results: Exceptional! I only cut the flat because that's the part I had the most concern about. The meat was very tender (fork tender), but not fall apart tender. It was plenty juicy and surprisingly smoky.

Thoughts: I was concerned I over salted it for the SV portion, so I didn't add any more seasoning or salt for the smoking portion. Turns out, it could have handled even more, which was a surprise. Also, the seasoning then refrigerating for 3 days after vacuum sealing was a convenience, not necessarily a planned technique. I just happened to have some time one afternoon to get the prep work done. No idea if it made any difference.

Overall, I'm a convert. It was so easy to do and had excellent results. I'll only use this technique in the future! I think it was my best brisket ever.

Sous Vide Brisket Size Question

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