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Poking meat with sharp objects question.

ok, I'll ask the stupid question. Based on some of the replies in the PTF thread some others may be interested in the answer too. For many years a have been under the belief that poking meat with sharp objects was a no-no. I have read recently that this just is not so. My question is why do guys like Rathburn, Flay, Besh, Lagasse, and many others preach this. These folks make a damn good living off of cooking great food so you would think they know what they are talking about. The articles I've read disclaiming this have been written by mostly self proclaimed experts. Just the other night I was grilling burgers and when I poked with a thermometer juices gushed out like a geyser. Same thing with turkey and chicken when the breast meat is probed juices run out heavily. Is the thought that this juice would be lost eventually through natural leakage anyway? Just curious. Any one care to jump in? Thanks.
Narcoossee, FL

LBGE, Nest, Mates, Plate Setter, Ash Tool. I'm a simple guy.
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Comments

  • Battleborn
    Battleborn Posts: 3,699
    My guess, and it is only that, is that these professional chefs have been cooking so well and for so long that they can judge the "doneness" by feel. Logic would say that probing the meat constantly would allow more avenues for the juice to escape. 
    Las Vegas, NV


  • RRP
    RRP Posts: 26,460
    Well...here's what Serious ears has to say on the at very subject.
    http://www.seriouseats.com/2013/05/ask-the-food-lab-is-it-ok-to-probe-my-meat.html

    Re-gasketing the USA one yard at a time 
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    edited June 2016
    it lets out juice from whatever cells are damged in that local area, but meat isn't a water balloon.  it is absolutely not possible to dry out meat by poking it

    ever have a juicy hamburger?

    that meat was not merely poked, but run through a grinder.  every ounce of it has been shredded.

    and you can still cook a juicy burger.

    salt does not dry out meat.  poking it does not dry it out.  the only thing that dries out meat is over cooking.

    yep, you will lose some juice from the spot you poke it, or by salting it.  but it just is not possible to dry out meat unless you take it to too high a temp.

    or dry age over, maybe 75 days or more. 

    why do they say it?  well, it is oft repeated.  they were probably told it by someone they respected.  plus, it sounds logical and correct.

    but they also say "searing locks in juices" which it doesn't

    or salting will dry meat.  which it doesn't (unless you BURY it and make prosciutto.  and even then, it will retain moisture)

    there's a lot of logical and cool sounding stuff in cooking.  most of the incorrect stuff survives because it sounds logical. doesn't mean it is correct though

    still worried? buy a jaccard.  it pierces the meat a bajillion times with steel blades.  if it dries out when you cook it though, it isn't the jaccard's fault, it's the cook's.
    (disclaimer: only jaccarded meat i ever ate was swiss steak.  cheap cuts pierced with the jaccard to make them edible.  mid 1970's. i eat better steaks now.  it's basically pre-chewing, or partially grinding.  mechanical tenderizing)


    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • Jstroke
    Jstroke Posts: 2,605
    Try this, I will go one better. 

    First, take two steaks or better pork chops--which are cheaper.

    Cook both to the same internal temperature.

    Poke one occasionally with your thermometer. The other don't.

    Pull them and stick them on their own individual plates.

    Immediately cut one up into slices. The other leave whole. Go watch TV.

    DO NOT EAT ANY---YES THIS IS UNFAIR.--THAT IS WHY A CHEAP PORK CHOP.

    After they have cooled down to room temp. Remove them to another plate or the cutting board. 

    NOW--measure the amount of liquid that has escaped onto each plate-separately--a shot glass works, use a spoon to scoop up the liquid--You tell me what you find out. 

    I eat my steaks and chops hot.


    Columbus, Ohio--A Gasser filled with Matchlight and an Ugly Drum.
  • johnnyp
    johnnyp Posts: 3,932
    ^these guys are right.

    Why do the experts advocate for it?  Because they are told to by the networks airing their shows. These networks are in the business of ratings, not true education. Their on-air recipes may be solid, but frequently their advice is meant for the lowest common denominator.  Then things like "don't saw your steak in half to check doneness" get transformed to say "never pierce the eat". 
    XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA
  • johnnyp
    johnnyp Posts: 3,932
    Also, I hate Bobby Flay's grilling show on the food network.  all of his advice is to take skill level 0 to passable.  Very little is helpful for people with any skill.....and I'm not even on one of the more skilled cooks on this forum!
    XL & MM BGE, 36" Blackstone - Newport News, VA
  • NonaScott
    NonaScott Posts: 446
    Jstroke said:
    Try this, I will go one better. 

    First, take two steaks or better pork chops--which are cheaper.

    Cook both to the same internal temperature.

    Poke one occasionally with your thermometer. The other don't.

    Pull them and stick them on their own individual plates.

    Immediately cut one up into slices. The other leave whole. Go watch TV.

    DO NOT EAT ANY---YES THIS IS UNFAIR.--THAT IS WHY A CHEAP PORK CHOP.

    After they have cooled down to room temp. Remove them to another plate or the cutting board. 

    NOW--measure the amount of liquid that has escaped onto each plate-separately--a shot glass works, use a spoon to scoop up the liquid--You tell me what you find out. 

    I eat my steaks and chops hot.


    I've often wondered about that also.
    Narcoossee, FL

    LBGE, Nest, Mates, Plate Setter, Ash Tool. I'm a simple guy.
  • Jstroke
    Jstroke Posts: 2,605
    Smoke and Mirrors
    Columbus, Ohio--A Gasser filled with Matchlight and an Ugly Drum.
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    Resting is important. But it is really about cooling. The cooler a steak is, the less liquid that runs out


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  • gdenby
    gdenby Posts: 6,239
    Jstroke said:
    ...

    First, take two steaks or better pork chops--which are cheaper.

    Cook both to the same internal temperature.

    Poke one occasionally with your thermometer. The other don't.

    Pull them and stick them on their own individual plates.

    Immediately cut one up into slices. The other leave whole. Go watch TV.

    ...

    After they have cooled down to room temp. Remove them to another plate or the cutting board. 

    NOW--measure the amount of liquid that has escaped onto each plate-separately--a shot glass works, use a spoon to scoop up the liquid--You tell me what you find out. 

    I eat my steaks and chops hot.



    Never actually done that. I'd guess they both dry out a lot, both from evaporation, but the cut up one more so. So save me the effort. What is the result?

    Also, a variation that might work. Make a pillow of paper towels, weigh them before, and then after the meat samples sit on them. Which pillow sucked up more juices. And so how much bread should be under the meat for sopping in ordinary circumstances.
  • NonaScott
    NonaScott Posts: 446
    Darby Crenshaw- what do you use to flip your steaks?
    Narcoossee, FL

    LBGE, Nest, Mates, Plate Setter, Ash Tool. I'm a simple guy.
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    NonaScott said:
    Darby Crenshaw- what do you use to flip your steaks?
    Long tongs usually
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • Acn
    Acn Posts: 4,490
    johnnyp said:
    Also, I hate Bobby Flay's grilling show on the food network.  all of his advice is to take skill level 0 to passable.  Very little is helpful for people with any skill.....and I'm not even on one of the more skilled cooks on this forum!
    That's probably the skill level of the average FN viewer though, so it's probably a good call.  I suspect that most expert level folks are looking for more targeted and advanced teachers.  I'll usually look at the show description to see what he's making; he does have some interesting condiment/side/cocktail ideas sometimes, and I'll check the FN site for a recipe if something catches my eye.

    LBGE

    Pikesville, MD

  • NonaScott
    NonaScott Posts: 446
    Personally I use tongs for steaks, spatula for burgers, and a long handled fork for most everything else, mainly because that's what's easiest for me. I don't have a PTF but I think I may get one. Thanks for the replies.
    Narcoossee, FL

    LBGE, Nest, Mates, Plate Setter, Ash Tool. I'm a simple guy.
  • NonaScott
    NonaScott Posts: 446
    Not to hijack my own thread but how do you get the name of a poster to appear in bold in the body your text.
    Narcoossee, FL

    LBGE, Nest, Mates, Plate Setter, Ash Tool. I'm a simple guy.
  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
    NonaScott said:
    Not to hijack my own thread but how do you get the name of a poster to appear in bold in the body your text.
    If you mean like your name above, just click Quote just below a post. If you mean like this, @NonaScott, type @ followed by the username.

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

  • NonaScott
    NonaScott Posts: 446
    @Carolina Q the latter was my question. Thanks
    Narcoossee, FL

    LBGE, Nest, Mates, Plate Setter, Ash Tool. I'm a simple guy.
  • SmokingPiney
    SmokingPiney Posts: 2,319
    Pokes from a meat thermometer are no biggie. I do not flip meats with a fork or pick, though. I use tongs. 
    Living the good life smoking and joking
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    Pigtail flippers are in common use by those cooking large numbers of steaks. No dried out steaks with those

    Just doesn't happen


    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
    edited June 2016
    Pokes from a meat thermometer are no biggie. I do not flip meats with a fork or pick, though. I use tongs. 
    Huh? A hole is a hole is a hole. It'll be fine.

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    A hole is a hole. 

    Truer words were never spoken


    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • Canugghead
    Canugghead Posts: 13,742
    try poking a sausage with hot bubbling juice trapped in the casing  =)  I poke from the end to minimise the ejection  ;)
    canuckland
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    Different thing though. A sausage is almost quite literally a water balloon

    But even so, a sausage should not express much fat or liquids unless it is overcooked. Just like a ground hamburger


    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • Canugghead
    Canugghead Posts: 13,742
    True, unless it's poked before cooking, lol!  On the other hand, I once cooked some whole taters (unpoked) next to a pork roast, when I opened the dome I thought I saw maggots crawling out of the roast! I was so freaked out and didn't have the presence of mind to take pictures ... after I calmed down it dawn on me that the maggots were what was left of some taters that exploded  :)
    canuckland
  • Hans61
    Hans61 Posts: 3,901
    Very informative thread - maybe a fun one to start would be along the lines of a "myth busters" for BBQ; I bet there are more mistakingly held common beliefs out there :-)
    “There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”
    Coach Finstock Teen Wolf
  • RRP
    RRP Posts: 26,460
    Hans61 said:
    Very informative thread - maybe a fun one to start would be along the lines of a "myth busters" for BBQ; I bet there are more mistakingly held common beliefs out there :-)
    LOL - True! Shame that show bit the dust and all the pent-up animosity was revealed after - what 14 years?
    Re-gasketing the USA one yard at a time 
  • Darby_Crenshaw
    Darby_Crenshaw Posts: 2,657
    edited June 2016
    Additional Myths:

    -Meat 'absorbs' smoke

    -smoke only flavors the meat in the first hour or so

    -that salt dries out meat (sugar draws more water out of meat, and you never worry about that)

    -nitrites in bacon are bad for you

    -ziploc bags of water keep flies away

    -that foods have expiration dates (nope. No such thing as an expiration date on food)

    -that brown meat is bad

    -that you want a brisket from whichever side is the one the steer doesn't lie down on

    -that bark makes bitter smoke

    -that you can marinate in oil

    -that meat tenderizer actually tenderizes meat

    -that leaving rub (or salt) too long on pork will make it taste hammy (or cure it, or both)

    -that searing locks in juices

    -that washing mushrooms makes them soggy

    -that game is gamey

    -that soaking game in milk makes it less gamey

    -that meat has 'pores' (but skin does)

    -that a three pound cowboy rib eye is a steak (it's a roast)

    ...for starters
    [social media disclaimer: irony and sarcasm may be used in some or all of user's posts; emoticon usage is intended to indicate moderately jocular social interaction; the comments toward users, their usernames, and the real people (living or dead) that they refer to are not intended to be adversarial in nature; those replying to this user are entering into a tacit agreement that they are real-life or social-media acquaintances and/or have agreed to or tacitly agreed to perpetrate occasional good-natured ribbing between and among themselves and others]

  • Hans61
    Hans61 Posts: 3,901
    Additional Myths:

    -Meat 'absorbs' smoke

    -smoke only flavors the meat in the first hour or so

    -that salt dries out meat (sugar draws more water out of meat, and you never worry about that)

    -nitrites in bacon are bad for you

    -ziploc bags of water keep flies away

    -that foods have expiration dates (nope. No such thing as an expiration date on food)

    -that brown meat is bad

    -that you want a brisket from whichever side is the one the steer doesn't lie down on

    -that bark makes bitter smoke

    -that you can marinate in oil

    -that meat tenderizer actually tenderizes meat

    -that leaving rub (or salt) too long on pork will make it taste hammy (or cure it, or both)

    -that searing locks in juices

    -that washing mushrooms makes them soggy

    -that game is gamey

    -that soaking game in milk makes it less gamey

    -that meat has 'pores' (but skin does)

    -that a three pound cowboy rib eye is a steak (it's a roast)

    -that presidents control the economy

    ...for starters
    I love that!!!
    “There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body.”
    Coach Finstock Teen Wolf