Is better meat worth the price?

DieselkW · June 2015

My local Egg dealer is a chef, he runs a catering company and his business is dependent on his many many BGE's that he uses exclusively to cook. He does not have an oven at his facility, all of his food is cooked on Big Green Eggs and when he caters an event, he brings a few LBGE's with him in an RV modified as a portable industrial kitchen.

Just last night I was talking to him at a BGE cooking class he runs a couple days a week. (I go a couple times a month) He strongly believes in the importance of having all proteins at room temp before starting his cooks. He said that will eliminate the "stall", even on the largest briskets.
I asked him if he was worried about bacteria, and he said "If I don't trust the meat when it's raw, how can I trust it when it's served?" Then he said: "I Don't buy contaminated meat and neither should you, I know my butcher, and I know who he buys his beef from"

We had brisket last night at his place. He started it the night before, and he served half inch thick cuts from the flat and not one of the 40 people in that room needed to use a knife. It was champion bbq quality brisket, and it melted under fork pressure. He made sure that the cows these briskets came from did not have to walk far to graze. Walking long distance, he said, makes for tough briskets. Yeah, he knows where his butcher got his meat, and he asked the ranch owner how far from the barn was the grazing field. He said he did not have a stall on any of the briskets he has made because he starts when the entire mass of muscles are at the same (room) temperature.

It costs a LOT more to "know your butcher", and I'm taking that advice seriously. I may never buy meat at a chain market again - there are several good butchers in the city I live, and they're kept in business partly by the professionals that appreciate the difference in quality they provide. I'm going to start spending more for my meat, and buying from butchers instead of the food factory I usually use just for a better price. My fear, of course, is based on my credentials as a backyard cook, ruining dinner is embarrassing enough, ruining an expensive dinner is worse.

So, forum members... do you think it's worth the premium price for locally sourced prime meats, or is "super" market quality good enough? I have spent a LOT of money at Costco for prime beef, and I've occasionally sampled the local (well, 8 miles away) butcher for fresh hand cut steaks. I don't like the mail order guys, they all seem to be playing the same game with pricing that Omaha Steaks invented - advertise ridiculous prices and then deeply discount to make you "feel" like you got a good deal after you end up paying $25/lb. for questionable quality sirloin.

Big_Green_Craig · June 2015

If I had to guess, you were at Chef JJ's?

I've always had the mind set of you get what you pay for.

Locally sourced? That's up to you if you are interested in supporting your community. This takes a lot of time and effort in learning the local ranches, how the livestock are treated, etc.
However, I agree that starting with a higher quality meat will only yield a higher quality end product. Example: I just smoked my first wagyu brisket from Snake River Farms. Was it expensive? Yes. Was it worth every penny? YES!!

Prime is the minimum for me...

fishlessman · June 2015

my local supermarket i buy the chicken parts and lamb, no pork or beef, the pork there is always solution added. blue collar butcher down the street i buy his homemade sausage, chicken breast not split, pork and beef roasts, three high end butchers near me for the steaks and i have no problems with costco steaks or ribs but they are too far from me. in regards to prime...never, a good top choice steak taste better to me or a good dry aged steak, prime is overrated for my taste buds, not worth it too me to buy prime

buzd504 · June 2015

Put me in the "you get what you pay for camp". I generally by the best quality I can find with a reasonable amount of convenience. Luckily, my local grocer tries to source locally, and they also dry age their own ribeyes and will cut to order.

The more special the occasion, the more effort I will put into getting special products.

DieselkW · June 2015

Big_Green_Craig said:

If I had to guess, you were at Chef JJ's?

Hey BGC! Yeah, the new downtown joint has a really nice view from the roof.
JJ had a good night, a good turn out. Surprisingly, just opened 10 days ago and there were only a couple empty seats.

Big_Green_Craig · June 2015

@DieselkW That's awesome! He took me down there and showed the place to me when I was there. The rooftop deck is unbelievable. I love the mixture of old and new architecture. I cannot believe how close it is to Lucas Oil. Think about an Egg'd brunch, then hitting a Colts game!

DieselkW · June 2015

He's going to have a "grab & go" on game days - too bad there's only 8 - 10 home games a year.
You might remember asking me about pesto pizza at the Egg-Fest last month.

Big_Green_Craig · June 2015

I remember. It was good!

Legume · June 2015

choice, CAB, or prime, really depends on the availability, how it looks to me, what the premium on the higher grade is, etc. sometimes prime is not such a huge price jump, sometimes the marbling on a choice steak looks really good.

I have no idea what my mom bought when I was a kid, but I would bet she never served choice or prime. I would probably be very happy with choice 90% of the time. I do find that when I'm shopping for two, I don't mind splurging for better quality more often.

If I was running a catering business and my business relied on word of mouth and reputation...and my pricing reflected my cost of goods, then I too would buy the best that made sense. If I serve a tough steak at home, they'll all be back again the next night.

msloan · June 2015

i've had great meat cook up wonderfully and then at times not be so wonderful.

and i've had lesser grades of meat be delicious and other times be like shoe leather.

for my tastebuds I can say that I am also in the camp of you get what you pay for. generally speaking, the higher quality of meat i purchase usually ends up being more tender and tasting better to me.

im not someone that feels like I absolutely have to have "prime" or better all the time, but I will usually buy it if it is available.

aukerns08 · June 2015

We bought a 1/2 of beef with another family at the beginning of the year from a local farmer. No hormones, antibiotics added and the cows are free range grass fed until 1 month before slaughter and then corn is introduced to the diet for finishing and marbling, but not forced on the cow. It's basically organic minus the certification because it's expensive for the farm to get it. That beef is the best beef I've had in a long time and it was reasonably priced, it comes out to be around $6/lb but it's a pretty big initial investment and you need freezer space to do it that way. If you're looking for a good variety of beef including ground (best ground beef I've ever had by far) this is a good way to go for high quality, local beef. If you do a lot of briskets, and ribeyes for example it might not be worth it investing in a 1/2 or 1/4 of beef as those are limited per cow so finding a good quality butcher might be your best bet there.

Ladeback69 · June 2015

I have had no problems with the beef I have gotten at Sam's. There steaks seem to be better then the local markets and they sometimes have prime briskets and I do make sure it has good marbling before I by it. One of the local markets I like to get pork and chicken from gets them from local farmers. The chicken is all free range and are quite large. At Thanksgiving they have fresh turkeys and that's where I get mine. I also like the quality of Restaurant Depot and their prices. The last set of ribs I did I go from there and they were great. I don't know if I could ever talk the wife into letting me by a brisket from SRF. I would like to try it at least once.

fishlessman · June 2015

dont count out the halal shops, usually local farms

Image: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/fishlessman/c5f7f530.jpg

Theophan · June 2015

There are no real butchers in my town, only chain grocery stores. I've been to a butcher that's I think about a 45 minute round trip, and I feel better about it, but I don't honestly know if I've tasted a difference.

The biggest thing lately that's making me nervous about grocery store meat is that I gather many of them "blade tenderize" the meat, which is like a Jaccard, I guess. The blades are thin enough that you can't see whether they've done it or not. The trouble there is that the blades carry bacteria from the surface deep into the meat, so even a steak or a fat roast could have E. coli or Salmonella, Listeria, etc., deep inside where they won't be killed if you cook it medium rare. <sigh> There have been outbreaks of food poisoning because of this! I've heard that Costco does it, and I think most stores. I keep meaning to try to nail down whether they really do that or not in my specific stores, but I keep forgetting. I assume they do, I'm afraid. I've read that the USDA will require that meat be labeled as mechanically tenderized, but not until some time in 2016.

Hmm... maybe I'd better be driving to that butcher shop more often...

gdenby · June 2015

By chance, I stopped at a small roadside farm shop a few years ago that I had driven by numerous times. Turned out, it was an organic operation. Yes, the steaks cost twice as much as average, but the flavor was unbeatable. That started me on a hunt for other places.

Spent lots of time web searching, got to talk to a couple of knowledgeable chef's who mentioned their favorite vendors, got used to putting a cooler in the car, and driving a couple of hours just to get certain things.

And, yes, it flattens the wallet.

As an example, a local chain gets some very high quality commodity pork a few times a year. A touch more expensive than usual. Then there's the organic co-op that carries pork from a farm about 40 miles away, which I happen to have visited, and was happy to see the hogs grazing in tall grass. Twice as expensive as the supermarket. Then there was the "boutique" shop selling Berkshire pork fed on goats milk. Twice as expensive as the organic place, but a spectacular flavor, and a texture like butter.

I'd say that if you can get good results from commodity meats, your results will almost certainly be better from special sources. You can in fact find out how much walking the animal did, and adjust your methods to account for animals that have roamed around alot, and so may have added some better flavor at the expense of tenderness. Or vice versa.

Ladeback69 · June 2015

Theophan said:

There are no real butchers in my town, only chain grocery stores. I've been to a butcher that's I think about a 45 minute round trip, and I feel better about it, but I don't honestly know if I've tasted a difference.

The biggest thing lately that's making me nervous about grocery store meat is that I gather many of them "blade tenderize" the meat, which is like a Jaccard, I guess. The blades are thin enough that you can't see whether they've done it or not. The trouble there is that the blades carry bacteria from the surface deep into the meat, so even a steak or a fat roast could have E. coli or Salmonella, Listeria, etc., deep inside where they won't be killed if you cook it medium rare. <sigh> There have been outbreaks of food poisoning because of this! I've heard that Costco does it, and I think most stores. I keep meaning to try to nail down whether they really do that or not in my specific stores, but I keep forgetting. I assume they do, I'm afraid. I've read that the USDA will require that meat be labeled as mechanically tenderized, but not until some time in 2016.

Hmm... maybe I'd better be driving to that butcher shop more often...

I've not heard about this, but I use a Jacquard to tenderize my brisket when I am putting the rub on. I always ways it in hot soapy water after every use, but I guess in the big meat packing plants they may not do that. You should be able to see the cuts if they are using a Jacquard. Sam's meat doesn't seem to have this unless you are getting minute steaks that have been beat to @#LL.

aukerns08 · June 2015

gdenby said:

And, yes, it flattens the wallet.

It is more expensive but the price is more reflective of how expensive it really is to grow and make food that's good for you. It's all relative to what you're willing to accept with food.

Ladeback69 · June 2015

My wife has a person that she calls on for work that raise beef in Kansas and has offered us a chance to by meat from them at no more then $2 per lb. The cows are grass feed them finished on gain and oats before butchering. This reminds me we need to look into this. You can buy a whole car, a half or just 100 lbs. I think it would be worth it.

fishlessman · June 2015

Theophan said:

There are no real butchers in my town, only chain grocery stores. I've been to a butcher that's I think about a 45 minute round trip, and I feel better about it, but I don't honestly know if I've tasted a difference.

The biggest thing lately that's making me nervous about grocery store meat is that I gather many of them "blade tenderize" the meat, which is like a Jaccard, I guess. The blades are thin enough that you can't see whether they've done it or not. The trouble there is that the blades carry bacteria from the surface deep into the meat, so even a steak or a fat roast could have E. coli or Salmonella, Listeria, etc., deep inside where they won't be killed if you cook it medium rare. <sigh> There have been outbreaks of food poisoning because of this! I've heard that Costco does it, and I think most stores. I keep meaning to try to nail down whether they really do that or not in my specific stores, but I keep forgetting. I assume they do, I'm afraid. I've read that the USDA will require that meat be labeled as mechanically tenderized, but not until some time in 2016.

Hmm... maybe I'd better be driving to that butcher shop more often...

im ok with the jacard if im ok with that stores ground meats, pretty much the same thing. the butchers here will use the jaccard but they will ask you first if you want it done, i get it done if theres going to be a marinade and its a tougher cut. what i dont like about chain stores is that they can take a solution added piece and repackage it under their own label as fresh, happens all the time with ribs and you have no idea until you cook and taste it, i wont buy any pork ribs or butts from my local chain

THEBuckeye · June 2015

Most of the time, I'll buy chicken at Whole Foods and Ground Beef, Butts, Ribs, Jumbo Wings and Steaks at a local butcher. Whole Foods is more expensive but I'm just weird about chicken.

Bottom line, I'll pay more and avoid the chains (Publix in my case) for the most part.

Theophan · June 2015

Ladeback69 said:
... I use a Jacquard to tenderize my brisket when I am putting the rub on. I always ways it in hot soapy water after every use, but I guess in the big meat packing plants they may not do that. You should be able to see the cuts if they are using a Jacquard. Sam's meat doesn't seem to have this...

I never really thought about people using that kind of tenderizer at home. On brisket, pork butt, anything that's going to be cooked to a high internal temperature, I'm sure it's fine.

But even if you wash it after use, it is inevitable that you're taking bacteria from the surface deep into the meat, and there are dangers in doing so if it's meat you're going to cook medium rare or rare. Any bacteria on the surface will be killed by the high heat on the surface, but meat that is cooked to medium rare or rare won't necessarily get hot enough to kill E. coli, Salmonella, Staphylococcus, etc., in the inside. I sure wouldn't use that thing on steaks, etc..

And by the way, you apparently can't see commercially mechanically tenderized meats, after all, because Sam's Club DOES have mechanically tenderized meats:

After conducting a check on the U.S. side of the recall, FSIS determined that there were approximately 1.1 million pounds of beef trim and 1.4 million pounds of primal and sub-primal cuts used to produce steaks, roasts, mechanically tenderized steaks and roasts, and ground beef.
For the most up-to-date list of recalled products from U.S. retailers — which include Safeway, Sam’s Club, Walmart, Albertson’s, Fred Meyer, Kroger, and others

It's like a lot of things -- it seems to be a pretty low risk, so we get away with it most of the time, and swear that it's safe because it happens rarely enough most of us don't see it, so we think it's safe to do. But it's not a low risk of having a little heartburn or something, it's a low risk of getting desperately sick and maybe in the hospital (or worse, with the elderly or the very young).

nolaegghead · June 2015

If you're worried about bacteria in a tenderized (via jacard) piece of meat, don't if you cook it well done - like brisket.

Insofar as bringing the meat to room temp to increase quality or decrease the stall, complete BS. No offense, but the temp that is comfortable to you humans to live has no impact on the stall or taste before meat is cooked.

Local vs factory farm (unless you have a factory farm locally) quality will almost always fall into the "get what you pay for" category. You can get some terrible meat from bubba down the road and some great meat from a big farm far away. What matters is the quality of the animals, their feed, their care and post processing.

Biggreenpharmacist · June 2015

Ladeback69 said:

My wife has a person that she calls on for work that raise beef in Kansas and has offered us a chance to by meat from them at no more then $2 per lb. The cows are grass feed them finished on gain and oats before butchering. This reminds me we need to look into this. You can buy a whole car, a half or just 100 lbs. I think it would be worth it.

I'm not sure I'd buy beef from a car salesman.

DieselkW · June 2015

I'm just starting on this journey of meat improvement, so I am avidly reading everyone's comments.

I'm actually cooking burgers right now, 73/27 cheap stuff I got on sale - I've got quite a bit of frozen ground right now.

Steaks, this weekend, will be Ribeyes from the Smoking Goose market in Indianapolis. I'll post pictures.

As for last night's adventure down to Lucas Oil Stadium's neighborhood and Chef JJ's place, here's a pic of my local BGE cooking expert with his arm around my wife. (My wife is the one with hair)

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/9v/uj1dcf3jv600.jpg

ksmyrl · June 2015

Agree with most of what was said. It's mainly about what are you willing to sacrifice? Money, or the meat? I try to buy the highest quality available and buy all my beef, pork, and chicken from the local butcher. But I don't know his suppliers. I've been threatening to buy a 1/2 cow from a local (1 hr away) grass fed place that gets rave reviews. I really should do it, but I'm worried my freezer will die and I'll be out several hundred dollars. That is just me being paranoid. For special occasions I buy the high grade stuff and can definitely tell a difference.

BuckeyeFork · June 2015

THEBuckeye said:

I'm just weird about chicken.

Let me see...

1. Chicken
2. Forks
3. Ohio State
4. Pimento wood
5. ?

It's ok, we all have our lists. I don't like knives, soup, jello or sporks. Sporks give me the creeps, they're not natural. I don't like forks that have had a tine enhancement, also not natural.

ringkingpin · June 2015

I sure hope it makes a difference because I have this sitting in my fridge in the garage!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/ji/qjpiochn9ghz.jpg

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5017260/uploads/editor/ch/ln7j09iyl1hw.jpg

DieselkW · June 2015

Nice @ringkingpin - actual Japanese Wagyu? Can I get an invite? I'll help watch it smoke.

Legume · June 2015

@ksmyrl freezers don't die, that's a silly thought.

big cuts and cheap stuff on the higher shelves and the expensive smaller stuff and sausage down low. You'll have plenty of time to buy a new one.

Legume · June 2015

Damn, 45 lb of Kobe brisket?

nolaegghead · June 2015

ksmyrl said:

Agree with most of what was said. It's mainly about what are you willing to sacrifice? Money, or the meat? I try to buy the highest quality available and buy all my beef, pork, and chicken from the local butcher. But I don't know his suppliers. I've been threatening to buy a 1/2 cow from a local (1 hr away) grass fed place that gets rave reviews. I really should do it, but I'm worried my freezer will die and I'll be out several hundred dollars. That is just me being paranoid. For special occasions I buy the high grade stuff and can definitely tell a difference.

You can buy a freezer alarm for about $15. Freezers are one of the most reliable appliances in the home. If it does fail, you have plenty of time to start the egg and organize a party.

Is better meat worth the price?

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