KCBS Contest Cooking/Ceramic Cookers

Unknown · April 2005

After reading a string that Sean started down below, I would like to make some comments. [p]It would seem to me after reading this string, that the folks on this forum would think to even compete, it would take a ton of money and this is really not true. Maybe 4-5 Eggs, a trailer to haul them, and an investment above 4-5K to have a chance at contest cooking is not what is required. Money only buys convenience as any KCBS contest can be done with only ONE large Egg and a cook that has his timing right. And for the folks that have the second Egg, you can use this Egg to party all Friday night. [p]Contest cooking is not rocket science although many will tell you so. Many great cooks keep it very simple and do well with this crazy hobby. If you as a cook feel that you need to cook a ton of meat to be successful, there is something wrong with your cooking. [p]I would sure like to see more folks on this forum give contest cooking a try as it really doesn't take a ton of money to be very competitive. Most folks on the forum would have about everything required to be competitive in a contest. [p]I guess I had better give you folks some information on just how easy it is to do a full KCBS contest on only one cooker. [p]This cook is for two 7-8 pounds butts, one brisket, three slabs of ribs, and 12-14 pieces of chicken. This is more than enough for any KCBS contest if you can cook pretty good contest meat. This is all I cook with any of my cookers. [p]I cook the butts over the brisket in the large Egg and time them so they will be off the cooker at no later than 7:00am on Saturday morning. This meat goes into the cooler. I then put the ribs on in a rib rack on the top grid and the chicken goes on the lower grid for the first part of my cook. I like to have my ribs done and in the cooler by 11:15am and then my chicken is placed back on the cooker with a pizza stone above them to get the skin and glaze right.[p]Again, I guess more cookers are better but any KCBS contest cook can be done and done well on just one cooker. It ain't rocket science!!![p]Dave

YankeeBBQ · April 2005

Hey Dave,[p]I think you cook differently then allot of folks on this forum. I've seen postes where briskets are being cooked for 114 hours and ribs for 36.[p]Steve

Unknown · April 2005

Old Dave,You Sir have a plan and it must work well from your statement. You make a very good point about the amount of meat and money you must spend to compete. We have done all four on two but we now have four and it does make it easier. Timing is the big factor. What area of the U.S. do you compete in?
Good Eggin to You,
Poppasam

thirdeye · April 2005

Old Dave,[p]You make some good points about preparation and timing. There are really experienced teams with excellent equipment out there. I've noticed that one of the biggest challenges competitors face at most amateur contests (like a chili cook-off, a fishing derby, a barbecue contest, or whatever) is the unknown local guy or gal because what they lack in equipment and finances, they make up for with devotion, good 'ol backyard experience, and a will to win.[p]Please explain the stone above the chicken technique.[p]~thirdeye~[p]

fishlessman · April 2005

thirdeye,
its not the arrow, its the indian. thats what an old timer once told me when i asked him what fly he was catching all the fish with

BBQfan1 · April 2005

YankeeBBQ,
Steve, those times are okay if you want sliced meat, but if you want to make it pullable you have to let it work its way through the plateau.....
Qfan

sprinter · April 2005

Old Dave,[p]Couldn't agree more. Having more space is simply a matter of convenience, not necessity. I'm one of those folks, or Tony and I are, who like to cook a bunch of meat, some for security purposes just in case, some just because we like to bring home leftovers. Anyway, we typically cook 2 - 3 briskets, 4 slabs of ribs, 2 butts, and about 24 pieces of chicken. Again, much of this is for leftovers and take home, some is just for insurance purposes.[p]One place I would tend to disagree with your statement about being able to cook everything on one cooker is the inability to use different smoking woods and different temps for different meats. This is actually where I started using a second cooker, even though my competition cooker is capable of cooking everything I have plus some more. We cook the butts and briskets with one type of wood, but the chicken and ribs usually get a different treatment, both temps and woods.[p]Is it mandatory? Absolutely NOT, but we've come up with a formulation of woods, temps, sauces, rubs etc. that really dont lend themselves to the same treatment as the butts and briskets.[p]To backup what Dave has said, we STARTED with everything on one cooker, one temp, one wood etc. After several competitions we started to refine what we were doing and realized that we could do better (or thought we could anyway) if we had more options open to us, so we made the decision to add another cooker to our competition setup. And, I've cooked with Dave, he has ONE cooker to cook his meats on and he is consistently in the top of the pack. I've even witnessed a first place call he had in Mt. Vernon last year with Chicken so he knows some things about cooking.[p]Thanks for the note Dave, and I also agree that anyone who wants to dive into competition cooking, go for it. You dont have to do it alone or even COOK your first competition to get a taste of it, there are a TON of competitions across the country, ask a team if you can join in and watch, or help out. I for one would never turn down anyone who wanted to learn from what we were doing. I know Dave is the same way, I've learned more from him over the years I've known him than I can believe. Most cooks I know would gladly do the same thing also.[p]Troy

Unknown · April 2005

Old Dave,
I hear ya. Options are a good thing too. One thing I should add though, is that I'm a local for this contest and I'm gonna have a LOT of moochers skulking around for leftovers come Sunday, and even if I come up with a third cooker, some will still go hungry. And I've already made it clear, come by and visit Saturday afternoon and evening, but unless they are on the team, don't come near me on Sunday til after 1 o'clock. Prior to that I will be in a foul mood as my schedule and my plan fall apart and I'll have extemely sharp implements in hand. With a little luck (and a couple of Bloody Mary's), maybe I won't be in the foul mood by then, but at least the knives will be put away.[p]Cheers,
Sean

YB · April 2005

C~Q,
Good luck Sean....If you were closer I would loan you a couple of my eggs.
Larry

Unknown · April 2005

thirdeye,[p]I cook competition chicken for about 3 hours on the Egg using a a form of Jumpin' Jims recipe which I have changed to suit my taste and during my final step, I place a hearth stone about 1 inch above the meat to kinda crisp up the skin. [p]Dave

fishlessman · April 2005

Old Dave,
off your topic alittle, but if i read correctly, you put the stone above the chicken to reflect more heat down on it. ive had problems getting the skin just right like i could with my old kettle. will give this a try

sprinter · April 2005

C~Q,[p]Sounds like you have a pretty good plan. One thing that I would like to add is that absolutely everything you do during the cook has an effect on the outcome of the meat. The way you trim the brisket, how you rub the meat, the consistency of the temperatures, it ALL has an effect. Just be sure you pay attention to the details. This is what separates the consistently GOOD cooks from everyone else. They make sure that they pay attention to every single detail of the cook. I'm all for having a great time at cookoffs but if you want to come out on top, you have to temper the fun with some dedication. I know I sound a bit preachy here, sorry for that, but at competitions it makes a difference. Many are there to have a good time and mingle with friends etc. Thats GREAT, its a big reason I'm there also. However, there are those cooks who do this thing for a living, whether it be catering, vending etc. THEY will pay attention to the details, and will get calls consistently at the awards. The trick is to try and get a good mix of both, THATS when it REALLY gets fun. Good luck at the cook and have a blast.[p]Troy

Nature Boy · April 2005

sprinter,
Well spoken Troy. Nothin' "preachy" about telling it like it is.
see you in KC!
Chris

Unknown · April 2005

fishlessman,[p]Yes, the stone very close to the chicken will radiate more heat which in most cases will make your skin better. However, probably still not as good as your kettle. [p]Dave

J Appledog · April 2005

Thanks for the encouragement, Old Dave! We're going up against Ford, et al. this weekend at his annual practice cook. We are going in lean, but pretty well prepared. (We still haven't decided what kind of ribs to buy or where to get them). We'll be stacking pork over brisket as you suggested to me last summer. 2 weeks of "chicken wars" have paid off but your idea of putting the pizza stone above the chicken might be the final trick that we need to pull this off.[p]I hope to see you again soon! Julie

fishlessman · April 2005

Old Dave,
sssshhhhh! still got the kettle, hard to part with : )

Unknown · April 2005

Sean,[p]I sure know where you are coming from and I have this problem as well with my next contest which is a local event. To get all our friends fed, we will do a party on Friday evening to keep these folks out of the way during the contest. I am lucky here as I will have help from several other teams so this shouldn't be to much of a job. Biggest problem, is that the local folks will want bbq and I really hate to do this on Friday night but I guess I better but I am soooooo sick of this meat. Would love to do gumbo or something else. [p]Good luck with your contest and I hope you place well. Most important, have fun!!![p]Dave

Unknown · April 2005

Morning Troy,[p]Thanks much for the kind words as I do appreciate them. And you are right in that a fellow can cook differently in more than one cooker which in many cases might work better than just the one cooker. I guess all I was saying is this is not necessary for the folks on the forum that might want to get started in this crazy hobby. [p]Like yourself, I really enjoy helping new cooks get started in competition cooking. It is really not very hard and I will share anything I know as I don't have any secrets with the four competition meats. [p]See you and Tony in Carmel and bring the home brew.[p]The Old Duffer

Chuck · April 2005

Old Dave,[p]Never had your gumbo but that jambalaya you made at New Holland in the bread bowls last year was fantastic. Any chance we will see you there (and your jambalaya or gumbo) again this year? I hope so, I totally enjoyed meeting you and Mike.[p]Have a great day.[p]Chuck

sprinter · April 2005

Old Dave,[p]Have a few kegs of it ready to go, hoping to get one more kegged before the event and hopefully it will have time to carbonate. We'll have plenty to go around regardless, dont worry about that.[p]See you in Carmel, looking forward to finally getting all of our ducks in a row for all 4 categories. We'll see what the judges think but Tony and I are excited about the weekend.[p]Troy

Trouble · April 2005

J Appledog,
Good luck Julie!
Trouble

Unknown · April 2005

Poppasam,[p]Thanks for the comments. Contest cooking is expensive even with a small setup. An inexpensive contest for me starts at 350 dollars and goes up. If a fellow has to travel, it is easy to spend over 600 dollars per event. We got lucky and finished in the black last year but this sure doesn't happen very often. [p]I'll compete anywhere as I love to do contests that I haven't been to before as I am always looking for some judges that like my cooking. Ain't never found them yet so I am still looking! This is called bottom feeding!![p]I live near Indy and will do any contest that is only one days drive from the Po-Farm so this gives me about a 600 mile range. Most of my cooking is done in the mid-west but I may do some new ones this year. I do this for fun and am not a very serious cook but there is no team on the curcuit that has more fun than my team. [p]Good luck this year with your contests and maybe we will meet on the road somewhere this year. [p]Dave

Adrian B. · April 2005

Old Dave, thanks for the words of wisdom and encouragement. I REALLY liked the part about using the pizza stone above the chicken pieces for the crispiness and glazing. I'll keep that in the back of my head for the time I venture into the ring :~)

Unknown · April 2005

Steve,[p]My friend, I would like to thank you for my morning laugh. It used to be a hell of a lot worse!! There are just a great bunch of folks on this forum that have kinda turned around the 200 hour brisket. I would love to name them but I would forget someone and I don't want to do this. [p]Five years ago on this forum, folks were cooking dog food and didn't know it. They had this moncho thing about cooking meat for several days thinking it was better. One fellow would brag about his 28 hour butt or brisket and then the next day, someome would cook one for 41 hours and say it was the best ever. [p]The Egg is no different than any cooker out there and will cook both butts and brisket in the same time frame if a fellow would operate the cooker by the grid temp. [p]Are you doing New Holland this year? I had a good time out there last year and cooked way over my head and fooled most of my friends there. This is a great contest. [p]Dave[p]

thirdeye · April 2005

Old Dave,
nmsg

katman · April 2005

Old Dave,
Well, I had to join in for a couple of reasons. First, you gave me my afternoon laugh with your recollection of how to make smoked dog food! Some day I intend to get out to a competition cook to see how its done so I can prepare to give it a try. Sure sounds like fun. Your approach for a new "competitor" sounds like a reasonble way to start. Sort of like your approach to making bread on the egg--keep it simple and have fun. Definately works.

Unknown · April 2005

Old Dave,We are a small team on a low budjet also. We are both retired from teaching and have been to MIM, KCBS, and FBA judging Classes. Also went to Dr.BBQ's competition class and it did help us.Our team name is Jus-Fer-Fun so we might compete with you on the fun part. Hope you have a great year and win many.
Good Eggin to You,
Poppasam

Unknown · April 2005

Morning Julie,[p]I sure wish I could have got away from the farm and was up there with all the good cooks and judges for Ford and Carols event. Looks like a good time. Maybe next year.[p]Be sure to have the hearth stone in the cooker for at least 30-40 minutes so it has time to warm all the way thru before the chicken goes on. [p][p]This is the one cooker setup I use for butts over brisket. [p]Good luck at Fords place and I will probably see you in Michigan in July.[p]Dave

Unknown · April 2005

Chuck,[p]Thanks for the kind words. Me and Mike really had a great time in New Holland last year and hope to come back this year. If so, would probably do gumbo this time and serve it as well in the bread bowls. Makes for a nice treat on Friday evening and I make the bread bowls at home so it really isn't too much work on this evening. [p]Looking forward to seeing you again this year.[p]Dave

Unknown · April 2005

Poppasam,[p]I love your team name! I would love to become a MIM judge as it looks like a ton of fun but we don't have any of their contests in our area. [p]You are sure right about drbbq's class as he really stays on top of competition cooking and many of the top cooks in the country have taken his class. I have taken it two straight years and it sure helped our team. I have a good friend who is also a great cook and has won a first place at the Royal two years in a row in one of the catagories but just couldn't cook a good brisket. I talked him into going to doc's class this spring and the first contest after the class, he got a 2nd in brisket which is higher than he has ever scored in this meat. The class works!![p]I assume that you live in the south and wonder if you compete in Georgia. I would really love to do Dillard and have it on my list this year. [p]Good luck this year and have fun. [p]Dave

Unknown · April 2005

Old Dave, Born and lived my whole life in Georgia. We are about 30 miles below Atlanta .
We only have two KCBS contests in thh state at present but I think that will change. The FBA has added three this year in Georgia but I think both will grow. We have four or five MIM that I know of with The Big PIg Jig being the Oldest and largest.
Due to new grandkids and a wedding, Dillard will be our first contest this year. We have judged an FBA and helped cook an KCBS so we're getting a BBQ fix ever now and then. Dillard is a great contest. We've cooked it the last three years. About 50 teams and a great group of folks running it. Always a great meal on thursday evening.
Have a great year and maybe we'll see you in Dillard.
Poppasam

KCBS Contest Cooking/Ceramic Cookers

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