Butt Fail........could use some expert advice!

msloan · April 2014

hey guys, this past weekend I cooked four 5 pound butts for my wife's family on my XL egg......everyone ranted and raved that it was delicious and most of it was eaten.....but i was not happy with the texture of the meat and with my bark. i will try to set the stage as short and brief as possible and if any of you notice mistakes or have suggestions for me to improve my process then I would be extremely grateful;

* injected the butts with a combination of apple juice 80% and pineapple juice 20%.

* light coat of mustard and then applied a healthy coating of some on Bone Sucking pork rub. wrapped in foil and placed in refrigerator overnight. about 12 hours before my cook.

* fired up the egg the next morning, stabilized the heat at about 260......had my plate setter in place.......placed a combination of peach and apple chunks into the lump as well that had been soaked in water overnight. i also had a small water pan sitting on top of the plate setter under the meat.

* placed the meat on after everything seemed to be right with the smoker etc.....and let the butts cook for about two hours before peeking at them. after two hours I began to spritz the butts about every 30 minutes or so.

* my goal for this cook was to not wrap these butts but I was working with a timeline to feed everyone.....hit the stall after about 3 hours at around 150 degrees.........after about another 2 hours the butts reached roughly 160 and I knew if I didnt wrap I was going to run out of time. so wrap them I did.

* after about 1.5 hours the butts were still only about 170.......i was getting panicky at this point and wished I had left my self more time......i had figured on about 7.5 hour cook with 5 pound butts.......so I cranked the heat up to about 325 and even drifted closer to 350 for a bit........

* about 25 minutes before we were scheduled to eat the butts were probed in multiple locations and I got temperature readings of 196-203, depending on what area i probed and what butt i was probing.

* pulled them and tried to let them rest at least 30 minutes or so, sitting in a cooler still wrapped.

* when I started getting them out and went to shred them......the bones did not want to come out, I knew I was not where I had hoped to be......I was able to pull the meat apart and attempt to shred....but they were like chunks vs. shredded pork. almost like the texture of a soft ham or sliced pork instead of true shredded pork.

* I sampled much of the meat and it did taste very good....it was also moist.......so people ate it up......but it didnt turn out like I wanted.

* in addition, although they had good outer color and there was a nice smoke ring the bark was soft and did not have really any firmness like I wanted.

so there it is....I know every cook and every piece of meat is different and one of my friends suggested that everything would have been fine if i had simply cooked them longer.......and I agree but I am confused as to why when they had reached near 200 degrees or above that I still didnt have the textrue I wanted??? any help, ideas, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!

msloan · April 2014

so i guess within all of that above in addition to suggestions I am also specifically asking what I need to do to ensure that the meat is ready to just fall apart and ready for shredding?

what do I need to do ensure a nice firm and chewy bark?

i dont dislike the color of my butts but I have noticed that many folks put up pics and their butts are almost black and the bark on those just look like they would be amazing.....is that done because those folks are using more sugar in their rubs and getting that caramelized burnt sugar look?

when you guys probe for temps....where and how many places do you check the temps to ensure you have an accurate reading for the whoel overall average of the butt?

lousubcap · April 2014

No eggspert here but from your summary I believe you answered your own question with the following: " when I started getting them out and went to shred them......the bones did not want to come out, I knew I was not where I had hoped to be......" With bone-in pork butts, that is the key finish-line indicator. And as you note, each hunk is different.

With 260*F on the dome, you are starting out at around 220-230*F at the cooking grid so things will run closer to 2 hrs/#. I would offer the following for the next round-FTC (foil, towels and cooler) allows you quite a bit of latitude to hit the finish-line. You can easily hold a butt for 3-4 hours with that process and then pull and eat. So, aim to finish early and give yourself more cook time if needed. Another option is turbo but that's a different subject. FWIW-

TexanOfTheNorth · April 2014

I don't wrap but I believe that might affect the quality of your bark.

Like @lousubcap said... you can FTC for at least 3-4 hours; that makes it a lot easier to get everything done in plenty of time for dinner.

tarheelmatt · April 2014

I see one issue.... foil.

buzd504 · April 2014

I don't spritz, I don't inject, and I don't wrap. Healthy coating of rub and just let them go.

You may be overthinking things. Spritzing is probably wrecking your bark. I don't put sugar in my rub, and it turns out nice and dark.

Start with the basics and see what turns out, then try adding your other techniques to see what kind of effect they have.

radamo · April 2014

It is possible that opening your egg every 30 minutes to "spritz" also slowed things down. Back on the Bradley Smoker forum they used to say "if your looking, you're not cooking". Each time you open the egg the heat escapes and then takes some time to get back to temp. Just a thought...

Mickey · April 2014

Just my 2cents. I never inject and no need to foil. Try this next time ( sure works for me). TURBO BUTTS. · Hot'n fast, 350 for 5 hours to internal to 200. Falls apart and oh so good! Have fun! · Be sure you only get a 7lb butt or so for the time (or a couple or more for more protein ) . Note: The butt box is not required. I use mustard & Bad Byron's Butt Rub (both not required). I put on the rub, then mustard, then rub once more. Ps: I do not foil.

msloan · April 2014

thanks a bunch for the input so quickly everyone........i appreciate it.......but help me to understand this.....if my internal temps did reach 200 or thereabouts then why did I have the issues with the bone not wanting to come out and the pork being more "chunky" instead of "shreddable"???

TexanOfTheNorth · April 2014

200* is just a target. For bone in they are "done" when the bone moves freely.

Smokinpig · April 2014

I too do not inject, foil, or spritz. I rub an hour before it goes on the egg with kosher salt and black pepper only. I go low and slow 260 dome for as long as it takes to hit 195 and then probe a few spots and wiggle the bone. If it is ready I ftc until time to eat. I attached a pic of my last bark results.

Tigers34 · April 2014

I am somewhat new to egging, but I do not open the egg until I am ready to remove the pork butt. I have been using a dome temp of 290 - 300 and they have been worked out very well with the temp staying steady through very long cooks. When I was using a barrel smoker, I would have to open the lid to add hot charcoal 2 - 3 times per cook.

SenecaTheYounger · April 2014

"if my internal temps did reach 200 or thereabouts then why did I have the issues with the bone not wanting to come out"

It is possible the thermometer was too close to the bone, or not positioned in the true center of the picnic.

The bone is the only really infallible indicator. Some also take their pulled pork to 205. I find it pullable anywhere between 185/190 (difficult, but pullable in a sense), to 210 (having gone too long, overshooting 200).

Smokin_Trout · April 2014

I cut off the fat, there is enough mixed in with the meat. This will give you more bark with less fat. No mustard. Rub and put on egg. Try to get dome between 270-300*. Pull at 200-205*. Usually around 12-15 hrs, depending on size.

fishlessman · April 2014

the problem with the 2 hour rule is it only works for 7 to 8 pound butts

basting/spritzing ruins bark

foiling ruins bark

cooler time ruins bark

its done when the probe has no resistance and the bone is loose

skip the pineapple juice, you dont need to tenderize a pork butt

MJG · April 2014

Too "hands on" and I don't think you got to temp. Get a good instant read and calibrate. Once i put mine on the only thing I do is drink...cocktails make everything better. Make sure you have plenty!

plumbfir01 · April 2014

As Mickey said.
No foil, spritz, or inject, good coat of rub and rock on, once you foil them on the grill, they sort of steam and it kills bark. Also give yourself more time to cook next go round

TonyA · April 2014

To answer your question about the 200 deg ... The whole process of cooking moist pork shoulder is to melt the fat and collagen right? You didn't apply enough heat for a long enough time to sufficiently melt all the fat and collagen in your particular cuts.

I religiously pull my butts off the grill at 195. As far as I am concerned they are no where near done cooking but I have enough heat to get the job done. I FTC for no less than 2 hours. I've done it for longer but it starts to jack w the bark and they can get too soft.

As a matter of personal taste, I would forego the injecting, water pan, and spritzing. A moist butt isn't full of water. It's full of liquefied fat and gelatin.

msloan · April 2014

MJG said:

Too "hands on" and I don't think you got to temp. Get a good instant read and calibrate. Once i put mine on the only thing I do is drink...cocktails make everything better. Make sure you have plenty!

thanks a bunch......my wife got me a thermapen for xmas and it does wonderful......so i must have just been probing too close to the bone.

msloan · April 2014

thanks everyone for the great suggestions! I have no doubt they will help me a bunch.

TexanOfTheNorth · April 2014

One final comment... we're often our own worst critics... "most of it was eaten" means success in my books!

KennyLee · April 2014

Will echo what others have said.....no need for foil or to inject or spritz a pork butt and is actually counterproductive for what you're after. There is enough natural fat/juices in the butt plus the incredible moisture retention of the Egg. And remember each time you open the Egg, you're adding time to the cook.

SenecaTheYounger · April 2014

I can understand the thinking that opening the egg slows the cook, but I haven't experienced it. There are too many variables for me to be able to tell whether one cook took longer than it should have.

Another is that some seem to experience the opposite phenomenon during a low temperature cook. If the egg is set at 250, the vents are very very slightly open. Minimal draft.

But opening the dome allows a comparatively much larger amount of fresh air to enter the egg. This, they feel, actually raises the temp in the short run.

I think either is a case of much ado about nothing. The thermometer is the only thing that cools off when you open the dome. The fire is the same, the dome itself isn't suddenly chilled. And the egg quickly returns to temperature. Some say the extra oxygen can actually stoke the fire.

Who is correct? I don't know. I have never planned a low and slow cook to the point where even an hour's extra time would be an issue. Neither if it were to finish an hour early.

BuckeyeBob · April 2014

I do the same as many of the others. I do mustard then rub, which does have sugar in it. I rub right before I set up the charcoal so it doesn't sit long. No injection. I cook around 275 and don't spritz or foil. So many good ideas on here that I'm sure it will work better for you next time. And I agree with @TexanOfTheNorth‌ comment. "Most was eaten" indicates success to me.

Charlesmaneri · April 2014

I also don't spritz ,foil or inject I however cook at 225 degrees until I get a internal temp of 205 then I start checking the bone if it pulls out it's done if not then it cooks longer.here is a pic of my last Pork Butt

grege345 · April 2014

Did you say you rubbed and let rest for 12 hours in the fridge before hitting the egg???

xiphoid007 · April 2014

I go with simple and avoid overnight or longer cooks than 6-8 hrs. I do turbo butt.

Light yellow mustard, rub of your choice (I like bad Byron's butt rub. Nice and peppery), on grill indirect at 350 till 205 IT. I like apple or cherry wood smoke for pork.

No injecting, no overnight rest, no foil.

Pull and FTC until dinner. Pulls apart like meat jello. Use your favorite sauce or nothing at all.

I don't know that it gets much easier.

MaskedMarvel · April 2014

I always FTC; with the butt, that sacrifices a litle chew on the bark, but dramatically increases the moisture inside. Dry butt sucks.

Also - injecting with water based, imho, just results in steaming the pork. There's a ham like quality that comes from that. I aim to, someday, inject with bacon grease. I'd be interested to see how THAT turned out!!!

How I do the butt::>

Score through the fat cap in 1/2" triangles. Yellow mustard, garlic salt, course ground black pepper. Occasionally add brown sugar. Occasionally add smoked paprika or cayenne. No injection. Apple cider water tray. Smokey chunks of wood (apple, occasional mesquite). 300-350*. FTC after bone releases for at least an hour. Shred and serve on plain buns with creamy cole slaw and a simple sauce (apple cider vinegar in a squirt bottle with a tablespoon of red pepper flakes and a tablespoon of brown sugar (prepped at least the day before)).

Yum! I'm doing one for the staff at work tomorrow!

8-Damien

GATraveller · April 2014

grege345 said:

Did you say you rubbed and let rest for 12 hours in the fridge before hitting the egg???

I do that sometimes if I remember or plan ahead (which isn't often). I'll rub the butt with Happy Holla then cover with plastic wrap and put in fridge overnight. Next day more rub and a little bit of brown sugar then onto the egg. I have never injected, spritzed or wrapped. 225 grate temp until it hits around 195 then foil, towel and hold in cooler until ready to pull. Always comes out fantastic.

Miked125 · April 2014

Its most likely because you wrapped them, if you want the really nice bark don't.

This is what I do:

1)I usually apply another coat of rub before I throw it on
2) Make sure that your rub has some type of sugar (creates nice bark)
3) shake your rub before and when applying, this will help avoid certain ingredients from settling.

Givengold3 · April 2014

Too much steam to create a good bark. No need to soak your wood either. Between damp smoking wood, injecting, spritzing and foil, you had steamed pork. Plenty of moisture between the fat in the meat and the convection of the egg.

Butt Fail........could use some expert advice!

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